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      06-08-2022, 12:32 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I placed a deposit on an Emira about 9 months ago. Was impatiently waiting for these reviews/first drives. All the reviews have been mixed and left me on the fence. I guess most of that placed deposit last year was expecting stellar reviews: on par with 718 GTS if not better, and along with that sexy looks. My backup option is a GTS 4.0. Will have to drive the Emira once demos are available at dealerships and make final decision (also waiting for Chris Harrisís take on it). To be honest, most of these reviews have just been first drives and not really reviews. Itís not where itís been driven on a track hard and then cruise around town. Will have to wait a bit longer for additional data points.
I have no dog in this fight, but I think the Lotus might be priced a little too close to the GT4 (which is the pinnacle) when you really option it out. And personally I'd never even consider the 4 pot.

The only Lotus I've ever driven is an Evora S. I was so curious to see what Lotus' was all about and I came away kind of lukewarm as well, especially considering the price. Kind of like the EVO review said, the engine is super nice (especially when people say it's "just" a Toyota engine), but it's no Porsche 4L. What I was most disappointed in was the gearshift, it's not even on the same planet as any of the Porsche gearboxes, yet alone the 6MT in the GT4. I will say though, the Evora got so much attention during the test drive, so I'm sure the Emira will do the same.

I think your approach is correct, you just have to drive both of them to get a good feel.
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      06-08-2022, 01:39 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I have no dog in this fight, but I think the Lotus might be priced a little too close to the GT4 (which is the pinnacle) when you really option it out. And personally I'd never even consider the 4 pot.
The base Emira V6 slots in between Cayman S and GTS 4.0. It is no where near GT4 pricing. GT4 is another $23k+ msrp(that is if you can get an allocation). There will be a more hardcore Emira version that does compete with GT4. Realistically your lighter spec GT4's run $120k+. That is being easy on options. There will be minimum $10k+ between similarly specced Emira V6 and GTS 4.0 Cayman(if you could get both for msrp).

Emira pricing:
Base I4: $75k
Base V6: $83k
I4 FE: $86k
V6 FE: $94k (First Ed are basically fully loaded, minus two-tone paint).
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      06-08-2022, 02:18 PM   #201
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Don’t go for the quickest Emira, go for the lightest. Light weight is basically the main (and might be the only reason) to look at these cars.
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      06-08-2022, 02:22 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I absolutely love the design of this car but after watching the videos and seeing the car in motion the only pause I have is the vents on the hood (frunk) look odd at certain angles. I'm sure it's something that you won't notice in person.
Supposedly the front doesn't open so it's not a frunk?

Ya, agree that the hood design is a bit funky as they tried to bring over the Evija design but it's not as intuitive. Still not a deal-breaker and overall a pretty car. If anything, I have reservations about the weird subdued rear w the micro lights.
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      06-08-2022, 02:36 PM   #203
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Donít go for the quickest Emira, go for the lightest. Light weight is basically the main (and might be the only reason) to look at these cars.
Harry Metcalfe mentioned in his review that the difference in weight between the manual 6 and automatic-only 4 is only some 40-ish lbs because of the weight of the auto transmission, and also that overall the weight is surprisingly high and on par with competing Porsche models despite those being steel vs. the aluminium Emira.
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      06-08-2022, 02:55 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Almuliman View Post
Harry Metcalfe mentioned in his review that the difference in weight between the manual 6 and automatic-only 4 is only some 40-ish lbs because of the weight of the auto transmission, and also that overall the weight is surprisingly high and on par with competing Porsche models despite those being steel vs. the aluminium Emira.
Lightest version of Emira is 4-cylinder w/DCT at 1405kg(3097lbs). That is EU kurb weight(which includes fluids, 90% fuel, 75kg driver). DIN weight is 1330kg(2932). DIN weight is EU kerb weight minus 75kg ballast for driver.

Cayman S w/ PDK DIN weight is 1385kg(3053lbs). Emira in similar spec is 121lbs lighter.

The Emira 4-cylinder sub 3,000lbs is quite impressive these days.
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      06-08-2022, 03:35 PM   #205
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4.3 to 60? Boooooo
I love Lotus cars, but the Emira just doesn't do anything for me. An Elise or Exige look 10x better IMO
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      06-08-2022, 05:34 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
C&D review was also not as glowing as I expected.

I'm sure this is still a joy to drive and will go down as a future classic. But I'm just not seeing an identity here. The more I see it, the more I feel the design is wholly generic. This is a very niche car made for somebody who has a strong affinity for the Lotus brand, British culture, and/or wanting to drive something unique.
This is not a future classic, at least not in base car form. The Elise and Evora GT are, and if you want a lotus product that will hold its value, those are the ones to get.
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      06-08-2022, 05:38 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I placed a deposit on an Emira about 9 months ago. Was impatiently waiting for these reviews/first drives. All the reviews have been mixed and left me on the fence. I guess most of that placed deposit last year was expecting stellar reviews: on par with 718 GTS if not better, and along with that sexy looks. My backup option is a GTS 4.0. Will have to drive the Emira once demos are available at dealerships and make final decision (also waiting for Chris Harris's take on it). To be honest, most of these reviews have just been first drives and not really reviews. It's not where it's been driven on a track hard and then cruise around town. Will have to wait a bit longer for additional data points.
I have no dog in this fight, but I think the Lotus might be priced a little too close to the GT4 (which is the pinnacle) when you really option it out. And personally I'd never even consider the 4 pot.

The only Lotus I've ever driven is an Evora S. I was so curious to see what Lotus' was all about and I came away kind of lukewarm as well, especially considering the price. Kind of like the EVO review said, the engine is super nice (especially when people say it's "just" a Toyota engine), but it's no Porsche 4L. What I was most disappointed in was the gearshift, it's not even on the same planet as any of the Porsche gearboxes, yet alone the 6MT in the GT4. I will say though, the Evora got so much attention during the test drive, so I'm sure the Emira will do the same.

I think your approach is correct, you just have to drive both of them to get a good feel.
Emira is about $15-20k less than than GT4. It's more in alignment with GTS 4.0. Performance numbers are on par with GTS as well. It's definitely nowhere near GT4's performance. I have considered a GT4 but it's too track focused and loud for me. GTS is a solid option but will decide after test drive. I was hoping Emira's performance was higher than what they published but it is what it is. Perhaps there will be an S or GT version but that's likely 2024-2025.
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      06-08-2022, 05:39 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I placed a deposit on an Emira about 9 months ago. Was impatiently waiting for these reviews/first drives. All the reviews have been mixed and left me on the fence. I guess most of that placed deposit last year was expecting stellar reviews: on par with 718 GTS if not better, and along with that sexy looks. My backup option is a GTS 4.0. Will have to drive the Emira once demos are available at dealerships and make final decision (also waiting for Chris Harris's take on it). To be honest, most of these reviews have just been first drives and not really reviews. It's not where it's been driven on a track hard and then cruise around town. Will have to wait a bit longer for additional data points.
The EVO this month is a 3000 mile review by Henry Catchpole. That's not a first drive, that's a review. How many reviewers drive a car for 3000 miles? Anything longer would be a long term test.

Then it was driven on track for a separate column by Jethro.
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      06-08-2022, 05:50 PM   #209
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Definitely a few quirks with the Emira that I'm a bit dumbfounded about:
- frunk: what's underneath considering we can't even pop it open?
- gear change a bit sluggish and engine only revving to 6,800 RPM vs full 7K
- latest note says it's now 395 HP vs 400-416 originally stated
- I am very much leaning towards the 4 cyl. with DCT. Main concerns are sound from the 4 pot and long term reliability (Toyota V6 is bulletproof)
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      06-08-2022, 05:54 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
The EVO this month is a 3000 mile review by Henry Catchpole. That's not a first drive, that's a review. How many reviewers drive a car for 3000 miles? Anything longer would be a long term test. Then it was driven on track for a separate column by Jethro.
Have you read Henry's article? He is the one who did the road test. Jethro's track review with a Sport trim car with Tour trim tires was odd and then comparing it to a GT4.

Is Henry's review available online? The print article on EVO website was quite glowing, gave it 4 out 5 stars. Said there is a lot more potential in the car. But nothing in the article from Henry.
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      06-08-2022, 05:58 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Definitely a few quirks with the Emira that I'm a bit dumbfounded about:
- frunk: what's underneath considering we can't even pop it open?
- gear change a bit sluggish and engine only revving to 6,800 RPM vs full 7K
- latest note says it's now 395 HP vs 400-416 originally stated
- I am very much leaning towards the 4 cyl. with DCT. Main concerns are sound from the 4 pot and long term reliability (Toyota V6 is bulletproof)
Aero for cooling. The air goes through front bumper, then slanted radiator, then exists the hood vents.

I am interested in the AMG 4-cylinder with DCT as well. Lightest Emira available, sub 3,000 lbs with fluids and 90% fuel. A Renntech tune away from being a little monster.
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      06-08-2022, 06:03 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
The EVO this month is a 3000 mile review by Henry Catchpole. That's not a first drive, that's a review. How many reviewers drive a car for 3000 miles? Anything longer would be a long term test. Then it was driven on track for a separate column by Jethro.
Have you read Henry's article? He is the one who did the road test. Jethro's track review with a Sport trim car with Tour trim tires was odd and then comparing it to a GT4.

Is Henry's review available online? The print article on EVO website was quite glowing, gave it 4 out 5 stars. Said there is a lot more potential in the car. But nothing in the article from Henry.
Yeah I read it this morning (EVO is on apple news and Zinio if you can't find print copy yet). It's 4 out of 5 stars, definitely a positive review. Says that the car prefers to be driven smoothly and not pushed too hard or driven in a sideways fashion.

Seems like he really liked the car, but it gives off the air of being a softer GT car compared to the Evora GT.

The Jethro track article included opinions from John Barker and Steve Sutcliffe who also drove it and said "why does it feel so heavy?"
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      06-08-2022, 06:06 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Definitely a few quirks with the Emira that I'm a bit dumbfounded about:
- frunk: what's underneath considering we can't even pop it open?
- gear change a bit sluggish and engine only revving to 6,800 RPM vs full 7K
- latest note says it's now 395 HP vs 400-416 originally stated
- I am very much leaning towards the 4 cyl. with DCT. Main concerns are sound from the 4 pot and long term reliability (Toyota V6 is bulletproof)
Aero for cooling. The air goes through front bumper, then slanted radiator, then exists the hood vents.

I am interested in the AMG 4-cylinder with DCT as well. Lightest Emira available, sub 3,000 lbs with fluids and 90% fuel. A Renntech tune away from being a little monster.
Long term reliability is a bit scary considering how much power comes from that little engine.
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      06-08-2022, 06:18 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Long term reliability is a bit scary considering how much power comes from that little engine.
That M139 is highly over-engineered, the block/internals can handle a lot of power. 350hp for the Emira is definitely detuned to not encroach on the V6. 2023 C63 will have the same 2.0L in a hybrid setup, the 2.0L alone will be making 442hp. My question, will the M139 in the Emira get "one man, one engine" badge like the AMG's?
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      06-09-2022, 07:56 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
The base Emira V6 slots in between Cayman S and GTS 4.0. It is no where near GT4 pricing. GT4 is another $23k+ msrp(that is if you can get an allocation). There will be a more hardcore Emira version that does compete with GT4. Realistically your lighter spec GT4's run $120k+. That is being easy on options. There will be minimum $10k+ between similarly specced Emira V6 and GTS 4.0 Cayman(if you could get both for msrp).

Emira pricing:
Base I4: $75k
Base V6: $83k
I4 FE: $86k
V6 FE: $94k (First Ed are basically fully loaded, minus two-tone paint).
Then I must have got it wrong, was listening to maybe the EVO video at the same time. Maybe they were talking about GTS, which even then we're talking about one hell of an NA car.

Even at $83k, there's a solid case to get the car, but also to go for the Porsche instead. I've always been one to defend the Toyota V6 (I loved the way it sounds), but next to the 4L, it's not quite as nice. Same with the gearshift.

But then you could argue exotic looks and just to have something you don't see everyday. You can't really lose, just glad there's still manufacturers making cars like this. Thankfully I'm in no position to pull the trigger on either
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      06-09-2022, 08:06 AM   #216
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I'd be very, very nervous about turbo lag on the 4 banger. Alfa did a decent job with their 4 cyl in the 4C, minimal lag and it actually sounds nasty.
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      06-09-2022, 08:46 AM   #217
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I placed a deposit on an Emira about 9 months ago. Was impatiently waiting for these reviews/first drives. All the reviews have been mixed and left me on the fence.
Forgive me, but it's a bit risky to even buy a first-production-year Toyota or Honda, what were you thinking placing a deposit on this car?

Give this car 5 years and it'll be all it should have been from the beginning. You'll see massive refinements, very little price increase (creating more of a gap between it and the Porsche), and increase availability.
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      06-09-2022, 10:53 AM   #218
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I placed a deposit on an Emira about 9 months ago. Was impatiently waiting for these reviews/first drives. All the reviews have been mixed and left me on the fence.
Forgive me, but it's a bit risky to even buy a first-production-year Toyota or Honda, what were you thinking placing a deposit on this car?

Give this car 5 years and it'll be all it should have been from the beginning. You'll see massive refinements, very little price increase (creating more of a gap between it and the Porsche), and increase availability.
Tbh I was hesitant as I have never had a Lotus before. I talked to people I know that have owned Lotuses and they eased my mind: mainly because the Toyota engine and transmission. Geely'a investment was also put towards upping the quality. So I was willing to roll the dice on it. Now that I have missed the first edition boat, I am actually glad to be in a second year production. I agree with you that their final edition will be everything it should be, but not sure if I can wait another 3-4 years. haha
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      06-09-2022, 11:01 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Tbh I was hesitant as I have never had a Lotus before. I talked to people I know that have owned Lotuses and they eased my mind: mainly because the Toyota engine and transmission. Geely'a investment was also put towards upping the quality. So I was willing to roll the dice on it. Now that I have missed the first edition boat, I am actually glad to be in a second year production. I agree with you that their final edition will be everything it should be, but not sure if I can wait another 3-4 years. haha
Just look at Evora GT values vs OG Evora's to get a sense for the reason to wait. I think Lotus will keep refining this car and eventually there will be one of them that is a must have. But this initial model, seems to be about working the kinks out and making the customers the beta testers (the press cars were not even finished and seem to have different dynamics between each physical car, which is a redflag).
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      06-09-2022, 11:49 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Tbh I was hesitant as I have never had a Lotus before. I talked to people I know that have owned Lotuses and they eased my mind: mainly because the Toyota engine and transmission. Geely'a investment was also put towards upping the quality. So I was willing to roll the dice on it. Now that I have missed the first edition boat, I am actually glad to be in a second year production. I agree with you that their final edition will be everything it should be, but not sure if I can wait another 3-4 years. haha
I don't see the Emira as benefitting anything from Geely other than money, the engineering is still Lotus, and still lacking. Many Evora owners from the first few years were quite unhappy because of so many little things that went wrong with the car. The car didn't leave them on the side of the road, but it certainly hurts the experience.

I'm a huge Lotus fan, I just think it takes them a while to catch their stride. I also think they have lost their way, making bigger, heavier cars, but that's Geely talking. Money talks, cars with dealership birthdays walk.
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