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      07-14-2019, 11:37 AM   #1
SteveinArizona
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Manual transmissions -- CR’s take

I know that many here don't like Consumers Report but try listening to the podcasts -- they are enthusiastic drivers.

But they have an interesting suggestion for new teen drivers. They suggest providing the teen with a manual transmission vehicle, NOT an automatic. The logic is that a manual transmission requires attention and engagement (duh!) and that will help them keep focused on driving and not on their boyfriends/girlfriends and smart phones.

So CR may be the enthusiasts's best and last friend.
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      07-14-2019, 02:26 PM   #2
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I agree. I don't think my older son will buy into it, but the little guy practices on his xbox 3 pedal setup already.
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      07-14-2019, 02:38 PM   #3
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My 16 year old son on his permit thinks manual transmissions are stupid. I think he both thinks this and expresses this opinion to piss me off.

My 20 year old daughter wants me to teach her to drive stick, but I think her primary objective is to be able to drive my car.
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      07-14-2019, 02:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoral View Post
My 16 year old son on his permit thinks manual transmissions are stupid. I think he both thinks this and expresses this opinion to piss me off.

My 20 year old daughter wants me to teach her to drive stick, but I think her primary objective is to be able to drive my car.
Can you blame her?
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      07-14-2019, 03:38 PM   #5
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I think it'll be yet another distraction. They'll be trying to row through the gears whilst updating their Snapchat, post a dumb comment on Instagram and send a nude all at the same time.
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      07-14-2019, 03:41 PM   #6
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This is the most poorly thought out idea ever. By the time the driver is competent to operate the manual on public roads most of the actions are automatic and don't require any thought at all. The young driver will still manage to be on their phone as much as anyone.
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      07-14-2019, 03:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoral View Post
My 16 year old son on his permit thinks manual transmissions are stupid. I think he both thinks this and expresses this opinion to piss me off.

My 20 year old daughter wants me to teach her to drive stick, but I think her primary objective is to be able to drive my car.
That is how my two daughters got to learn to drive a manual. They wanted to drive my M3.
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      07-14-2019, 05:19 PM   #8
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CR may be car enthusiasts but that doesn't mean they know what the hell they are taking about. I thought they are into fuel efficiency with 10 speed auto and stuffs. Giving a kid a 6 speed manual is like asking them to do burn out and drifting.

I remember Mike Ditka was proposing football players not wearing helmets to eliminate head injuries. Brilliant!
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      07-14-2019, 08:02 PM   #9
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They are dead on with this. Simply put, drivers who learn on a manual are better drivers. They understand driving dynamics better and they understand handling better. It is simply good, common sense, advice from CR.
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      07-14-2019, 11:37 PM   #10
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But the parents can't drive a manual, so the idea is dead in the water.
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      07-15-2019, 12:57 AM   #11
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I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.
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      07-15-2019, 01:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.
Learning how to drive a manual and learning how to be a good driver are not mutually exclusive.

I don't think CR is reviewing VCRs or pagers, or rotary phones, but on the cover of the August 2019 Car and Driver:

Five $25,000 Hatchbacks that are saving the manuals

(The five are Honda Civic Sport, Mazda 3, Hyundai Elantra GT N-Line, Volkswagen Golf SE, Toyota Corolla XSE).

So calling it dead is a just little hyperbolic.
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      07-15-2019, 07:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.

+1.

I knew well before I started driving that my first car would be a manual. I wanted to be engaged in every aspect of having that privilege.
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      07-15-2019, 08:56 AM   #14
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The idea makes some sense but seeing most cars are auto in this day and age and with EV's on the horizon manual transmission cars will become more scarce than today and whatever they learn will be lost in short time. There are plenty of people that used to drive manual transmissions decades ago that are terrible drivers today because the primary issue today is that drivers are lazy and distracted. As a society we no longer appreciate, respect, and understand the responsibility required when behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and I don't think a a year or two of driving with a manual transmission is going to change much as their next car will likely be an automatic and their skills will erode. Autonomous cars are probably change for the better unfortunately so driving is no longer a distraction for those that can't put down their phones.
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      07-15-2019, 09:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The idea makes some sense but seeing most cars are auto in this day and age and with EV's on the horizon manual transmission cars will become more scarce than today and whatever they learn will be lost in short time. There are plenty of people that used to drive manual transmissions decades ago that are terrible drivers today because the primary issue today is that drivers are lazy and distracted. As a society we no longer appreciate, respect, and understand the responsibility required when behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and I don't think a a year or two of driving with a manual transmission is going to change much as their next car will likely be an automatic and their skills will erode. Autonomous cars are probably change for the better unfortunately so driving is no longer a distraction for those that can't put down their phones.
The war on drunk driving wasn't based on developing a new technology to supplant human behavior. The war on drunk driving was an education effort, and law enforcement effort to modify human behavior. Ignore the phone and drive. If we are going to commit tens of trillions of dollars to convert to full autonomous driving just so people can text and surf the net while commuting, then Google and Samsung can pay for the whole thing.
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      07-15-2019, 09:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.
LOL, who drives a manual in street traffic rev matching and using a heel 'n toe technique...?

Learning to drive a manual is just basic training and makes for a better over all driver. Did you teach your kids how to count, or just use a calculator?
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      07-15-2019, 09:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.
LOL, who drives a manual in street traffic rev matching and using a heel 'n toe technique...?

Learning to drive a manual is just basic training and makes for a better over all driver. Did you teach your kids how to count, or just use a calculator?
It's a joke, obviously. Yes, I taught them to count, but I didn't use an abacus.
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      07-15-2019, 10:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoral View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I love manuals and I grew up on them but the manual is dead. Might as well teach them how to rewind a VCR, read pager codes, or use a rotary phone. It's a waste of time and resources. Instead of spending hours teaching them manual, teach them how to be good drivers. Teach them that the fast lane is for passing only, how to be respectful of other drivers, etc. I'd rather they know those things then how to downshift rev match heel toe etc.
Learning how to drive a manual and learning how to be a good driver are not mutually exclusive.

I don't think CR is reviewing VCRs or pagers, or rotary phones, but on the cover of the August 2019 Car and Driver:

Five $25,000 Hatchbacks that are saving the manuals

(The five are Honda Civic Sport, Mazda 3, Hyundai Elantra GT N-Line, Volkswagen Golf SE, Toyota Corolla XSE).

So calling it dead is a just little hyperbolic.
They are not mutually exclusive, however, time and resources are finite. I'd rather they learn things like emergency braking, oversteer correction, wet handling, etc. along with road etiquette and basic common sense. Driving a manual is not the only engaging aspect of driving. We have teach new drivers to be more connected to the automobile by going a set further in driving dynamics and emergency maneuvers-almost like the teen drivers program at the BMW performance center. Show them what an out of control car feels like and how easily things can go from bad to worse. Then they will emit only respect the skill of driving, but they will know how to react better than how we were taught. I think that's part of the problem. Current driver training is too basic. I understand that teaching manuals can help in that regard, but manuals will be gone in the very bear future. Wet roads and emergency maneuvers won't be.
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      07-15-2019, 11:06 AM   #19
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The last two times I've rented a car in Europe, the representative apologized to me and said they are all out of automatic vehicles. They were both genuinely surprised when I replied that I prefer a manual. SMH.

The last time I went over, I rented a turbo diesel manual Passat wagon. It ticked so many of my boxes. Add AWD and I would have stuffed it in my carry-on.
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      07-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I remember Mike Ditka was proposing football players not wearing helmets to eliminate head injuries. Brilliant!
Actually ... rugby and Aussie footy players don't wear hard helmets, and there's just as much concern about concussive injuries in those full-contact sports as there is in the NFL. The primary differences are twofold:

- Heavily punitive penalties for hits above the shoulders or leading with the head
- Cultural (i.e., nowhere near as litigious societies as ours, and players accept both the personal risks and the responsibility for that risk toward and among other players).

Sorry, but Ditka's onto something. The rules have to change, and players have to share the responsibility for the risk.

As for the thread topic: I give CR about as much car-culture street cred (pun intended) as I give Garth Brooks metalhead street cred. Inane advice, as usual. With as much bread-and-butter content as CR deals with, it should know that at this stage the vast, vast, vast majority of parents don't give a whit about how a car works, much less how it gets from Point A to Point B -- ergo, their kids won't either.
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      07-16-2019, 07:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
LOL, who drives a manual in street traffic rev matching and using a heel 'n toe technique...?
You downshift by just letting the clutch out then with no mind paid to before/after RPMs?

Edit: When I taught my girlfriend how to drive a manual, the concept and execution of rev matching was absolutely something we went over. Being smooth with the clutch and gas isn't something that's reserved for racetracks; I would think it's something appreciated by both the mechanicals and any passengers.
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      07-16-2019, 08:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherM4n View Post
You downshift by just letting the clutch out then with no mind paid to before/after RPMs?

Edit: When I taught my girlfriend how to drive a manual, the concept and execution of rev matching was absolutely something we went over. Being smooth with the clutch and gas isn't something that's reserved for racetracks; I would think it's something appreciated by both the mechanicals and any passengers.
One can avoid the need to rev match with the throttle by applying the brakes and downshifting at the proper time (i.e. in the speed range of the gear); one does not need to rev match at every downshift. And I do rev match when necessary for the power delivery commensurate with the driving situation. BTW, I learned to drive and took the driving test with a manual transmission in a car without a tachometer (yeah, I'm that old LOL). I hit the manual-transmission million driven miles mark probably 11 years ago, maybe even earlier if you count the miles I have on the big scooters

Regardless, I was addressing jmg's comment regarding rev matching AND using a heel 'n toe technique; even he knew it was funny...
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

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