DCT Thoughts

[SohoE93]

Who does the GTS tune? Can it be installed remotely?

[triggz82]

The dct weeping doesn't happen to all cars. BMW also specifies the fluid is a lifetime fill. That's at your own discretion, but my car has 98k km and has zero weeping and on the original fluid with no issues. I will swap the fluid at around 110-120k km regardless along with the rod bearings. I've only driven manuals ever since I started driving 18 years ago and prefer the dct over the 6mt on the m3 - I do a lot of city stop and go. The 6mt was surprisingly sloppy/numb to me and the gears felt very long, granted it was a friend's car. It was also not very responsive to rev matching unless in power mode. I absolutely understand the purist mentality, but the e90 m3 IMO is better suited to the dct. Keep another car for manual fun... I have a miata!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SohoE90

Who does the GTS tune? Can it be installed remotely?

Anyone who can code the cars can install the GTS software

[dmk08]

DCT pan gets warped from heat. GTS software is amazing but I cant help but think it exasperates this issue. With that said Ill still be loading it

[burtonsbs5114]

I have owned both the e93 6mt and I currently own an e92 DCT. It was a struggle for me to get into the DCT, but now i love it. It is so much fun and the rev-match downshifts are awesome. Every now and then I wish I had a 3rd pedal, but all things considered, I love the DCT.

As stated previously, it does seem like the best transmission for the car.

[Prefontaine]

Originally Posted by triggz82

The dct weeping doesn't happen to all cars. BMW also specifies the fluid is a lifetime fill. That's at your own discretion, but my car has 98k km and has zero weeping and on the original fluid with no issues. I will swap the fluid at around 110-120k km regardless along with the rod bearings. I've only driven manuals ever since I started driving 18 years ago and prefer the dct over the 6mt on the m3 - I do a lot of city stop and go. The 6mt was surprisingly sloppy/numb to me and the gears felt very long, granted it was a friend's car. It was also not very responsive to rev matching unless in power mode. I absolutely understand the purist mentality, but the e90 m3 IMO is better suited to the dct. Keep another car for manual fun... I have a miata!

Great point that I forgot to mention. Heel-toeing was a pain with the power button not turned on. Alternatively, that makes it a bit touchy at low speed in traffic. Not impossible, nor is it all that difficult to toggle the button, but it still was an annoyance.

[SYT_Shadow]

Come on guys. Now we're blaming the car for user error?

I rev match on the E92 the same as I did on the E46... or on a student's Cayman S when they ask me to teach them how to do it.

For the record, I do not use sport mode and even have the throttle calibrating to be more linear than stock



EDIT: for the record, I am not advocating that OP buys the 6MT over the DCT. Each is special in its own way and I love both of them. However, the DCT leaky seals is a real problem that is unresolved so far.

[Prefontaine]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Come on guys. Now we're blaming the car for user error?

I rev match on the E92 the same as I did on the E46... or on a student's Cayman S when they ask me to teach them how to do it.

For the record, I do not use sport mode and even have the throttle calibrating to be more linear than stock



EDIT: for the record, I am not advocating that OP buys the 6MT over the DCT. Each is special in its own way and I love both of them. However, the DCT leaky seals is a real problem that is unresolved so far.

There’s no “user error” when it comes to one’s opinion about the throttle’s responsiveness. It’s purely preference. For the record, rev matching can be accomplished with the power button off. There’s just a lot of dead space before the desired effect is achieved.

User error example: “I can’t rev match / heel toe without the power button on”

Preference example: “I find that it takes more pedal travel than desired to rev match without the power button on. The trade off is that with the power button on, the throttle is just a bit touchy in low speed / traffic situations. This can be mitigated by deselecting the power button as desired, but it can get old turning it on and off, especially if you don’t have M drive.”

Again, just because you don’t think there’s an issue, doesn’t mean a legitimate drawback isn’t there. As Dave Moss says, people are very good at adapting to less than ideal ergonomics, and may not even acknowledge that there *could* be a better way.

[Dr. Dre]

One of the BMW executive was asked this same question. He said for the E9x it's better to go with the DTC due to the fact you have to keep the engine in the rev range. If you get the F80 then get the manual.

[CHE///MIST3]

Makes sense, but it feels so nice when you actually DO row through the gears properly "in the rev range" with a manual.

GM

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

One of the BMW executive was asked this same question. He said for the E9x it's better to go with the DTC due to the fact you have to keep the engine in the rev range. If you get the F80 then get the manual.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by SohoE90

Promise not to beat a dead horse here...

I'm in the market for an E93. I am leaning towards a 6MT since I enjoy a manual, but test drove a DCT and thought it was incredible. I was initially concerned about long term issues (mostly fear mongered paranoia), then saw many used replacement units on ebay can be had for about $2k..at that price plus labor I could stomach a replacement if it died..and it seems like the DCT E93 cars are dime dozen here in florida vs one with a 6MT. I feel like I'll be waiting forever for the right car to hit the market.

Back to the DCT - has anyone replaced their unit recently? I've read about every post on this forum on the DCT and it seems if a replacement occurred, it happened within the first 25k miles. These tranny's have been in service for almost a decade now and seem like solid units that will possibly outlast the engine?

Thoughts?

When people say DCT is reliable maybe they mean by BMW standards not Toyota standards. DCT is not more reliable than manual, that is bunk. DCTs are a dime a dozen, manuals are rare and will remain the most desireable. All cars in the future will be automatics so you should get a V8 Manual while you still can! You will not have the choice in the future. You can get automatics for the rest of your life.....don't squander your opportunity young man!

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by nachob

When people say DCT is reliable maybe they mean by BMW standards not Toyota standards. DCT is not more reliable than manual, that is bunk. DCTs are a dime a dozen, manuals are rare and will remain the most desireable. All cars in the future will be automatics so you should get a V8 Manual while you still can! You will not have the choice in the future. You can get automatics for the rest of your life.....don't squander your opportunity young man!

Add to that: until there are no more transmissions at all and all vehicles are run on electric and self running by GPS. We are all doomed.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Add to that: until there are no more transmissions at all and all vehicles are run on electric and self running by GPS. We are all doomed.

Yes the window is closing, get them while you can!!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Prefontaine

There’s no “user error” when it comes to one’s opinion about the throttle’s responsiveness. It’s purely preference. For the record, rev matching can be accomplished with the power button off. There’s just a lot of dead space before the desired effect is achieved.

User error example: “I can’t rev match / heel toe without the power button on”

Preference example: “I find that it takes more pedal travel than desired to rev match without the power button on. The trade off is that with the power button on, the throttle is just a bit touchy in low speed / traffic situations. This can be mitigated by deselecting the power button as desired, but it can get old turning it on and off, especially if you don’t have M drive.”

Again, just because you don’t think there’s an issue, doesn’t mean a legitimate drawback isn’t there. As Dave Moss says, people are very good at adapting to less than ideal ergonomics, and may not even acknowledge that there *could* be a better way.

Feedback received and accepted

[srmast1]

If e93, get the dct. Manual cars are slower than dct cars, but not by too much. The e93 is slower than the e92, but not by much. I feel like the dct on an e93 evens the playground. I have a 6mt e90 (which took me an entire year of searching to find with all the options I wanted). I love rowing through the gears but there are definitely days I wish I'd gotten the dct. I vote dct.

[Montaver]

As long as manual cars still sell, manufacturers will continue to offer them. Sadly they are not, along with sports cars in general. Ford sells more Escape's than the entire sports car market put together. It's up to guys like us to get out there and buy new cars, sadly due to emissions regs, crash regs, platform development costs, cars are becoming homogenised and there are fewer special and focused options to buy. Couple that with unrealistic costs, depreciation, crowded roads, it's a tough time to buy and enjoy new cars right now in my opinion unless you have a lot of cash to burn.

Over the last 10 years there has been a paradigm shift in the way cars are viewed and purchased. Now they are all appliances, rented and handed back after 3 years. No ones cares about involvement, feel or dynamics. Its how low the monthly is and how much will an oil change be.

Heres a savage geese vid where they talk about the numbers, its not pretty. (skip to 5:00 for the figures)

So, like everyone else is saying - enjoy manuals while you can! (I have a DCT and I love it )

[Groundhog]

DCT with leak; fixed 20,000 miles ago, still good.

Dislikes:
Tip in delay in automatic mode from a stop, or when not in M mode.
Engagement delay from forward to reverse or reverse to forward or neutral to either.
Always starts in manual mode so need to shift it twice to get automatic mode (and now someone's going to tell me the trick to change this - I hope).

Test drove both and liked the DCT better. I have another car with a stick though so this wasn't a big issue.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Silverstoneorspacegray

The trick is call Alex at alpine and spend $100 and get the GTS flash and it'll start in D, go in and out of reverse 10x quicker and the clunkiness slowing down from second to third goes away. But more importantly the shifts are sooooooo much better (in both modes) - S5 is savage at WoT.

Do what Silverstone suggested but it's only $60 not $100. It's $20 for the cable but you can send it back to him for a refund if you so choose.

[WAKman]

I love the DCT, and my "sporty" cars have always been manuals. But the M3 is far more than a "sporty" car. It is an all-purpose, all-conquering freakin' wonder machine. I actually was driving next to a gorgeous dark gray E39 M5 today, and I looked over at him, listening as he rowed through the gears, thinking "man, that car would kick ass with a DCT."

If I could have only one car ever after, it would be the E92 M3.

Fortunately, I have two cars--and the other is a 1985 Porsche 911, with the antiquated, agricultural, positively menopausal Porsche 915 gearbox. A bitter, cranky mechanical contrivance that shifts like a long stick stuck in a bucket full of pea gravel. And, of course, I love it. Successfully driving a 915 well is the epitome of orgasma di mechanica, an entree to a club to which few belong. It also takes me back to a time when, if you wanted Porsche's halo car, you had to learn how to operate real, analog machinery; no ABS, no power steering, and . . . what, you want an automatic? Buy a Dodge. You'll save enough to buy several pairs of pink panties.

Terry