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      01-07-2019, 04:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Want Higher Taxes? Pay Them Yourself.

The Federal Government of the United States accepts donations. Seriously. They go right into the general fund, just like your taxes. If you’re so inclined, you can apparently even earmark your donation for the specific purpose of reducing the federal debt.

Here ya go:

https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454

At Pay.gov, you can contribute online by credit card, debit card, PayPal, checking account, or savings account.
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and, in the memo section, notate that it's a gift to reduce the debt held by the public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
No, no, no. He doesn't want higher taxes for himself, he wants higher taxes for other people.

What's the saying? Democracies work great until the people realize they can vote themselves bread and circuses?
Indeed.

For all of the self-describe progressives/liberals/etc, I challenge all who want a higher marginal rate across the board calculate your personal marginal rate under Representative Ocasio-Cortez's tax plan, please use the information posted by usshelena725 , pay that amount, and post an image of your receipt. If ever there was an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, this is it. You guys talk the talk about higher tax rates, now walk the walk.

And for our friends north of the boarder who like to chime in on these topics, please feel free to participate! I don't want to exclude anyone.

Cheers-mk
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
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      01-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Indeed.

For all of the self-describe progressives/liberals/etc, I challenge all who want a higher marginal rate across the board calculate your personal marginal rate under Representative Ocasio-Cortez's tax plan, please use the information posted by usshelena725 , pay that amount, and post an image of your receipt. If ever there was an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, this is it. You guys talk the talk about higher tax rates, now walk the walk.

And for our friends north of the boarder who like to chime in on these topics, please feel free to participate! I don't want to exclude anyone.

Cheers-mk
In my experience the folks that think taxes should be higher, are usually in a lower tax bracket and think that the rich should pay much higher rates. They also are quite dismissive about the idea that the rich are already paying much ore in taxes than the lower and middle class combined. Canada has a similar program where you can donate directly to the government and an option to donate any refund you're getting on your income tax......I love your challenge, lets see if anyone takes you up on it. Maybe we could get a pool going.
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      01-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Well, look at what happened with the last tax cut. The top brackets got the biggest break and the rest of us got a smaller one.

Let's also face it, the Top 1% don't pay their taxes via an income tax. Even Romney admitted he only pays around effectively 14-15% because of the way he makes his income.
And how much does this amount to in real dollars?

This is a major part of the actual conversation that is missing. That and the fact that about 49% of the population pay no income tax whatsoever.
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Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

Last edited by MKSixer; 01-07-2019 at 04:57 PM..
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      01-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
See, that's not how progressive taxes are suppose to work.

I'm sure you make more than me and I pay more in taxes. That kinda pisses me off.

Good for you. But it pisses me off.

That is the main problem - the progressive taxation system. Why should someone who worked hard and did well in life get penalized with higher taxes? The whole system should be scrapped and then replaced with a flat tax.

For reference, I don't know what you do for a living, but if I make more than you, it probably isn't by much. About 90% of my annual income comes via a standard wage W-2. If you are paying more than me and you make less than $250,000 per year (like me), then you need a better accountant - because my ETR isn't out of line with the normal wage earner.



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Last edited by Run Silent; 02-15-2019 at 12:53 PM..
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      01-07-2019, 04:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Indeed.

For all of the self-describe progressives/liberals/etc, I challenge all who want a higher marginal rate across the board calculate your personal marginal rate under Representative Ocasio-Cortez's tax plan, please use the information posted by usshelena725 , pay that amount, and post an image of your receipt. If ever there was an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, this is it. You guys talk the talk about higher tax rates, now walk the walk.

And for our friends north of the boarder who like to chime in on these topics, please feel free to participate! I don't want to exclude anyone.

Cheers-mk
They will talk all the BS but when it comes time to man up they are no where to be found.
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      01-07-2019, 04:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
In my experience the folks that think taxes should be higher, are usually in a lower tax bracket and think that the rich should pay much higher rates. They also are quite dismissive about the idea that the rich are already paying much ore in taxes than the lower and middle class combined. Canada has a similar program where you can donate directly to the government and an option to donate any refund you're getting on your income tax......I love your challenge, lets see if anyone takes you up on it. Maybe we could get a pool going.
Oh you're just being foolish as usual. Why would you use actual data to frame your argument. C'mon...this isn't the place for that!

Seriously, perhaps another thread should be started? The Tax Challenge Thread.
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Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
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      01-07-2019, 04:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
And how much does this amount to in real dollars?

This is a major part of the actual conversation that is missing. That and the fact that about 49% of the population payno income tax whatsoever.
I haven't seen ol' Mitt's tax returns so I couldn't tell you.

I can tell you I'm paying more than 15% of my overall income in taxes. I'm also fairly confident that Mitt makes more than me.

So Mitt is in a higher income bracket than me yet pays effectively less in taxes. That's not how a progressive tax system is suppose to work.

And yes, 49% don't pay income tax. That is how a progressive income tax is suppose to work.

Let me be clear, I'm not complaining about my personal tax situation. I am complaining about people making more income that myself yet effectively paying less in taxes.
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      01-07-2019, 04:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I haven't seen ol' Mitt's tax returns so I couldn't tell you.

I can tell you I'm paying more than 15% of my overall income in taxes. I'm also fairly confident that Mitt makes more than me.

So Mitt is in a higher income bracket than me yet pays effectively less in taxes. That's not how a progressive tax system is suppose to work.

And yes, 49% don't pay income tax. That is how a progressive income tax is suppose to work.

Let me be clear, I'm not complaining about my personal tax situation. I am complaining about people making more income that myself yet effectively paying less in taxes.
But you're complaining about everyone else's.

Please be clear in your calculus. They are paying a lesser RATE but still paying a greater aggregate TOTAL AMOUNT than you pay. This is the total revenue which is all that counts at the end of the day.
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
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      01-07-2019, 04:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I didn't say Trudeau imposed those specific taxes, my point was that Trudeau wanted to increase taxes on the rich. And the net result was a negative one. The first paragraphs from my attached article :

The Liberal governmentís tax on Canadaís top 1 per cent failed to produce the promised billions in new revenue in its first year, as high-income earners actually paid $4.6-billion less in federal taxes.

The Liberal Partyís campaign platform said a new top tax bracket would raise nearly $3-billion a year, but an analysis of recently released data from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) shows the expected benefit didnít materialize.


The other issue with taxes in Canada are that by the time we pay federal and provincial income tax, HST on every single purchase, property tax, user fees, hidden fees, healthcare supplement, and now carbon taxes, one level of government or another is taking well over 50% of my family's gross income. At what point do you think that government is getting enough of our money, 60%, 70%? What government needs to do is get back to it's core business and be efficient about it, the waste is ridiculous and habitual.
Again, read the whole article, not the paragraphs that suit your point of view. The article quite clearly (and correctly) points out that it's an argument that comes with a significant degree of caution because of other factors. The article is also stale (from 2016). While federal revenue dropped by a small amount in that year (<$2 billion), in the next FY, it rose by $20 billion which proves the hypothesis completely wrong in any event.

Second, while you might have an argument about taxes as a whole in Ontario your knee jerk antipathy for Justin Trudeau coloured your comments. The federal government is not responsible for provincial taxes, property taxes, health care surcharges, etc. That's an Ontario issue, not a Trudeau one.

My issue with your post is that it was simply you giving voice to your anti-Trudeau partisanship. Had you made your second post first, I might still argue that you're not drawing the right conclusion from the article but that's about it.
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      01-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #32
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She is clearly a nut job. The problem is people in general are so entitled she will probably get support from the masses.
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      01-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I haven't seen ol' Mitt's tax returns so I couldn't tell you.

I can tell you I'm paying more than 15% of my overall income in taxes. I'm also fairly confident that Mitt makes more than me.

So Mitt is in a higher income bracket than me yet pays effectively less in taxes. That's not how a progressive tax system is suppose to work.

And yes, 49% don't pay income tax. That is how a progressive income tax is suppose to work.

Let me be clear, I'm not complaining about my personal tax situation. I am complaining about people making more income that myself yet effectively paying less in taxes.
I'm not a CPA obviously. Help me understand how someone who makes more than you and is taxed at a higher rate is "effectively paying less in taxes". Wouldn't a higher income at a higher tax rate (even at a lower or equal tax rate) would have them paying more tax.
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      01-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
They will talk all the BS but when it comes time to man up they are no where to be found.


I guarantee my wife and I pay more in taxes than you (way more) ands we aren't complaining and are "manning up."

All you talk is BS.
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      01-07-2019, 04:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
That is the main problem - the progressive taxation system. Why should someone who worked hard and did well in life get penalized with higher taxes? The whole system should be scrapped and then replaced with a flat tax.

For reference, I don't know what you do for a living, but if I make more than you, it probably isn't by much. About 90% of my annual income comes via a standard wage W-2. If you are paying more than me and you make less than $250,000 per year (like me), then you need a better accountant - because my ETR isn't out of line with the normal wage earner.

Of course, I am a CPA and so is my wife, so we may have a bit more know-how than the average bloke.

Because a flat tax hurts lower income workers more, you know that. Low income workers work paycheck to paycheck. They don't exactly have disposable income.

And trust me, I live comfortably, in a ski town. I'm not suffering. But I shouldn't be paying the same percentage of my taxes as someone who makes considerably less than me. I worked for where I am, and I'm grateful for what has befallen me. But I also realize that I live in a society where not everyone is equal. I'm ok with paying my share so that we can buy new jets, or fix a highway, or so that person who can barely make ends meet can get groceries through WIC.

The difference between the upper bracket and lower bracket is about putting food on the table vice getting that new Porsche this year. And no one is saying they shouldn't be able to buy that Porsche.


PS: I'm not a Captain yet. But I'm doing fine.
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      01-07-2019, 04:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
But you're complaining about everyone else's.

Please be clear in your calculus. They are paying a lesser RATE but still paying a greater aggregate TOTAL AMOUNT than you pay. This is the total revenue which is all that counts at the end of the day.
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I'm not a CPA obviously. Help me understand how someone who makes more than you and is taxed at a higher rate is "effectively paying less in taxes". Wouldn't a higher income at a higher tax rate (even at a lower or equal tax rate) would have them paying more tax.
How can you guys not understand how percentages work?
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      01-07-2019, 04:57 PM   #37
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She really is just like a naive' child.
She scary thing is she was elected by a majority.
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      01-07-2019, 05:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
How can you guys not understand how percentages work?
I understand precisely how they work.

How can you not understand that a percentage isn't put into the bank account but rather an aggregate amount?
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

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      01-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Again, read the whole article, not the paragraphs that suit your point of view. The article quite clearly (and correctly) points out that it's an argument that comes with a significant degree of caution because of other factors. The article is also stale (from 2016). While federal revenue dropped by a small amount in that year (<$2 billion), in the next FY, it rose by $20 billion which proves the hypothesis completely wrong in any event.

Second, while you might have an argument about taxes as a whole in Ontario your knee jerk antipathy for Justin Trudeau coloured your comments. The federal government is not responsible for provincial taxes, property taxes, health care surcharges, etc. That's an Ontario issue, not a Trudeau one.

My issue with your post is that it was simply you giving voice to your anti-Trudeau partisanship. Had you made your second post first, I might still argue that you're not drawing the right conclusion from the article but that's about it.
I think I was clear about different levels of government getting my money. With respect to Trudeau, I can't tell if he's a liar or an idiot based on what he's done with the debt and deficit. I'm still waiting for the budget to balance itself. He is now going to take a lot more of our money in the form of the carbon tax, the fact he's told us it'll be revenue neutral and given his track record so far I think I'm on pretty safe ground complaining about the federal government and it's taxes.
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      01-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
She is clearly a nut job. The problem is people in general are so entitled she will probably get support from the masses.
A couple of thoughts since I think you and maybe one or two others will give me a well thought out response to this.

1. I don't think she is a nut job. Maybe young/misguided in reality etc.

2. It has no way of passing so it always fun to watch people get up in arms about an idea from someone who has no power. And who is part of a party that has little power in the current US government to get anything passed on their own.

3. Actually thinking about it, you have nearly every MAGA supporter in this thread freaking out about paying taxes. Even though they will turn around and say the deficit will bankrupt us and we want the biggest baddest military and our roads/infrastructure sucks and and and.......you get the idea.

4. How are we the US going to pay down the debt while simultaneously not only keeping the current military we have, but developing new weapons to remain the biggest and baddest. And rebuilding a crumbling infrastructure (which almost everybody Repub or Dem agrees needs massive attention.

5. Who is really the nut jobs and who is really MAGA?

6. We used to in the pay for stuff in this country and now not so much.
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      01-07-2019, 05:03 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I understand precisely how they work.

How can you not understand that a percentage isn't put into the bank account but rather an aggregate amount?
But that's not how taxation works.

Taxation works off of percentages, not aggregate amounts.
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      01-07-2019, 05:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
But that's not how taxation works.

Taxation works off of percentages, not aggregate amounts.
So again, help me understand. If you make $100K and pay 20% income tax or you make $150K and pay 25% my math tells me the guy making $150K is paying more tax.
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      01-07-2019, 05:08 PM   #43
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AOC looks like my ex wife
She doesn't look like any of my ex wives.
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      01-07-2019, 05:11 PM   #44
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I would not mind making 10 Million a year and pay 70% in marginal taxes. 1st world problems.
I do not agree with her on everything but she gets the old guard scrambling...
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