The official "Ask a cop/deputy anything!" thread

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

We used to have School resource officers, and then the SJW pushed to have students polled to see if they were made uncomfortable have police officers in the schools, 90%+ were in favour so of course they removed them. I knew a few of the guys doing it and they really liked it and thought it was worthwhile.

Did they ever say what was the most enjoyable part of the gig?

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

Why is traffic enforcement practically non-existent in south Florida?

- On I95 cars routinely fly by any time of day or night in moderate traffic - in any lane at upwards of 100mph+

- From our neighborhood, far away from any turnpike / interstate, we can sit in our backyard any night and hear cars and bikes a mile away racing and hitting the top end of 4th gear and beyond on secondary roads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude, but there is a difference between having a little fun and putting other people's lives in danger on public roads. This is unmistakably the latter.

You rarely see anyone pulled over and nowhere in the area seems to be off limits to regular ongoing reckless / dangerous driving. So why is it seemingly so tolerated by law enforcement?

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

Why is traffic enforcement practically non-existent in south Florida?

- On I95 cars routinely fly by any time of day or night in moderate traffic - in any lane at upwards of 100mph+

- From our neighborhood, far away from any turnpike / interstate, we can sit in our backyard any night and hear cars and bikes a mile away racing and hitting the top end of 4th gear and beyond on secondary roads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude, but there is a difference between having a little fun and putting other people's lives in danger on public roads. This is unmistakably the latter.

You rarely see anyone pulled over and nowhere in the area seems to be off limits to regular ongoing reckless / dangerous driving. So why is it seemingly so tolerated by law enforcement?

You should call the non emergency # and see what they can do…

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Did they ever say what was the most enjoyable part of the gig?

As I recall they like interacting with the students, I think they managed to win over lots of kids who may have had a negative opinion of the police. I think it's got to be the right person for the job, but I think it could be a good go.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

As I recall they like interacting with the students, I think they managed to win over lots of kids who may have had a negative opinion of the police. I think it's got to be the right person for the job, but I think it could be a good go.

That's a good perspective to have. Thank you. I just don't want to lose my 4-10 schedule.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's a good perspective to have. Thank you. I just don't want to lose my 4-10 schedule.

So I could see myself doing it later in my career.....maybe. I know what you mean about losing the shift work, as you get older it does take a toll though. I don't want to sound like a cliche but it is a job where you might be able to make a difference, and get away from the daily garbage. It needs to be a good fit for you and for the school.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

So I could see myself doing it later in my career.....maybe. I know what you mean about losing the shift work, as you get older it does take a toll though. I don't want to sound like a cliche but it is a job where you might be able to make a difference, and get away from the daily garbage. It needs to be a good fit for you and for the school.

My lady said something similar. I will definitely have to sleep on it because if I give up my traffic car (…one of the best patrol spots to have due to the fixed schedule, the more focused enforcement and my current spot is in a preferred area as well), it'll go to the next person with the highest seniority behind me and I won't be able to get it back.

[bayarea328xit]

Grand Rapids officer charged with second-degree murder in shooting of Patrick Lyoya, prosecutor says

Avoiding politics, if possible, how does news like this factor into morale in your department(s)?

Is there a procedural fix? How should the officer have handled that stop?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

Grand Rapids officer charged with second-degree murder in shooting of Patrick Lyoya, prosecutor says

Avoiding politics, if possible, how does news like this factor into morale in your department(s)?

Is there a procedural fix? How should the officer have handled that stop?

Morale takes a hit every time an officer is charged in a situation like this. I'm not familiar with the circumstances of that case, so I will reserve my judgment(s) and criticism(s) until I have/know the facts. Give me a minute to review the facts as they are known and I'll come back to this.

[Sedan_Clan]

So....


....I've watched the body camera footage and I will render an opinion based on what I can ascertain from the footage and with consideration to my own training and experience. This will be a long response replete with edits, so bear with me as I attempt to gather my thoughts together.

Having personally been in plenty of situations where the motorist is attempting to exit the vehicle or has exited the vehicle, the first thing I would've done - at the distance the officer was from the suspect/suspect vehicle - was detain the driver at gunpoint, remain behind relative cover (..e.g...the door of the vehicle; what's the exigency to approach at that moment?!?!?) and request back-up. The officer deciding to make the approach under those circumstances was already a bad decision IMHO. I say that only because a motorist who immediately tries to exit the vehicle or successfully exits the vehicle is generally prepared to fight, is a flight risk, has a weapon or a combination of all three. Tactically, the officer is safer with the driver/operator inside of the motor vehicle. The officer makes the approach, but then seemingly stands there and takes no affirmative enforcement action. If I'm going to take my chances and make an approach, I'm going hands on immediately because............if I don't take control, nothing is under control!!!! After what seems like hesitancy on behalf of the officer, he goes hands-on and then the suspect flees. The fight is on! At that point a scuffle ensues and the suspect is resisting, but based on the camera footage, it doesn't look like it immediately becomes a deadly force scenario. The officer deploys a TASER - which is largely a distance neutralization weapon - and the suspect grabs the TASER. That action on behalf of the suspect turns it into a deadly force situation because if the officer gets tased by the suspect, the suspect could retrieve the officer's gun and it could/would go downhill very quickly. Shortly thereafter the fatal gunshot is rendered.

Now, let me be fair. I wasn't there. I/we cannot see what the officer sees (..e.g...360-degree environment, etc.) nor feel what the officer feels (..e.g...the suspect's level of resistance/strength, etc.). The two-dimensional camera footage shows us a lot, but it does not show us everything. People need to remember that when they are viewing the images and video footage from a body-worn camera. I also am not privy to the training that particular officer had, nor am I privy to that department's policies, so understand that my perspective is from the lens of my own training and experience, my department's policies and how we employ our tactics in the field.

I think the officer made a few decisions that added more difficulty to an already tense and rapidly evolving situation (...e.g...deciding to advance under those circumstances, deploying the TASER during a ground struggle, etc.), BUT the suspect's actions turned it into a deadly force scenario by grabbing the TASER.

I personally would not have deployed a TASER in such close proximity to a suspect; at that distance the prongs are useless (...e.g...not nearly enough spread to incapacitate) and a drive-stun is not always effective. I think the officer did everything he could to avoid utilizing his firearm. If it were me and I were alone on a traffic stop - which I usually am - I would have detained at gunpoint pending the arrival of back-up. If the suspect ran, I would not have chased alone, especially without having cleared the vehicle ahead. I would have advised my back-up that the suspect ran from me and provided details with regards to the description, direction, etc. I also would have called for aero assistance. Ultimately I would have to consider the reason for the stop (..Was it just an infraction? Was it a felony suspect?) and how far I'm willing to take it considering the violation I have. I'm going to treat a felony suspect/threat much differently than somebody who ran from me in a situation where I saw no weapon.

I hope I answered your question(s), but if you have more, feel free to ask. I will try my best to answer them. I do not think this officer deserves manslaughter charges. I think many of these D.A.'s care more about the social climate and the optics than they do about fairness and consideration of the situation(s) based on the verbiage in the law........which states the circumstances should be considered based on what a prudent officer with similar training and experience would do. If a suspect grabs my TASER, I will shoot.

[bayarea328xit]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

...

Thank you for your thoughts - always very helpful.

It seems like we are giving LEOs very little space to practice - we are teaching people that non-compliance is a viable option, and (at the same time) punishing LEOs when there is a bad outcome from dealing with an individual who does not comply.

[ezaircon4jc]

Sedan_Clan, if you ever find yourself in north San Diego County, PM me. I'd like to buy you lunch (somewhere kinda cheap; I am a lowly federal retiree after all )

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

Thank you for your thoughts - always very helpful.

It seems like we are giving LEOs very little space to practice - we are teaching people that non-compliance is a viable option, and (at the same time) punishing LEOs when there is a bad outcome from dealing with an individual who does not comply.

You are exactly right. If we continue this penalization practice of, "Throw the book at the Officer/Deputy and let him/her fight it out in court (...all while vilification occurs in the kneejerk media due to inconsistent information or a lack of facts)," the failure to act.....the hesitation to act......will continue and get Officers/Deputies injured or killed. We've already seen it occur numerous times over the last couple of years. Law enforcers in precarious positions will sit there, struck by the paralysis of analysis, thinking about their livelihood instead of dealing with the threat in front of them. The brave men and women dealing with these criminals will do just about anything to help the public, but the threat of losing everything is a source of fear. I'm not suggesting that we ignore obvious and egregious examples of misconduct, but we need to understand and acknowledge that our law enforcers are dealing with the problems the public can't or won't deal with themselves. We accept all of the liability for everybody else's problems, so the support should mirror that.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Sedan_Clan, if you ever find yourself in north San Diego County, PM me. I'd like to buy you lunch (somewhere kinda cheap; I am a lowly federal retiree after all )

That's a very generous offer, Sir! I'm always in north San Diego County. My lady lives in Oceanside and I'm there Saturday night/Sunday morning through Wednesday morning most weeks. P/M me your number!

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

Thank you for your thoughts - always very helpful.

It seems like we are giving LEOs very little space to practice - we are teaching people that non-compliance is a viable option, and (at the same time) punishing LEOs when there is a bad outcome from dealing with an individual who does not comply.

It amazes me that the good cops want to stay on as cops. In the description of the event above it does sound like the officer screwed up but the difference between his screw-up and one I might have made in my career was no one would have died when I screwed up. Yet the true fault for creating the situation remains with the dead guy.

There needs to be an understanding if you physically resist arrest you are creating a potentially lethal situation and it might be you getting killed. And social climate be damned. Officer had reason to be in fear of his life and if I were on that jury there is no chance he would have faced jail time. Which would probably have been determined in Voir dire and I would have been excused by the DA.

[paquet]

"Something's gotta give" is something I've been repeating far too often these days...

Saw another site where people were blaming cops for not diving in to save a man in the water even after posts from lifeguards saying the cops did the right thing to call in for help.
It seems society is chasing off cops - why would anyone want to stay and be judged 24-7 despite putting life and limb and mental health on the line day in day out?
You have to wonder what's the end game? Are these just misguided people or is there something more in the offing? ("follow the money" is the other thing I often think of nowadays)

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by packet

Saw another site where people were blaming cops for not diving in to save a man in the water even after posts from lifeguards saying the cops did the right thing to call in for help.

IIRC, the first lesson at lifeguard school is to NOT jump in to save a panicking swimmer, lest he/she drown both of you in a wrestling match. This is why lifeguards carry these rescue floats with lots of handles, so that they can push it to the panicking rescuee without getting within arm's reach of them:



I need to add a disclaimer that I have never worked as a lifeguard, nor have I ever been to lifeguard school.....



.

[unluky]

OK - I got a real cop question. Say you see a car parked in a lot of a business that has been out of business for a long time. I'm interested in it, but it's been sitting there for over a year. I grabbed the VIN and ran a car fax - came back good, but to a private owner. Tags are a month or some from expiring and it has plates on it. I was hoping it belonged to one of the failed businesses and I could track it down.

Is there any legal way of tracking down the owner of a car like that? Hate seeing it just sitting there when I might be willing to trade some cash for it and have it be my next project.

Any avenue? Besides busting out the window, calling the cops to report it and see who shows up? =)

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by unluky

OK - I got a real cop question. Say you see a car parked in a lot of a business that has been out of business for a long time. I'm interested in it, but it's been sitting there for over a year. I grabbed the VIN and ran a car fax - came back good, but to a private owner. Tags are a month or some from expiring and it has plates on it. I was hoping it belonged to one of the failed businesses and I could track it down.

Is there any legal way of tracking down the owner of a car like that? Hate seeing it just sitting there when I might be willing to trade some cash for it and have it be my next project.

Any avenue? Besides busting out the window, calling the cops to report it and see who shows up? =)

I mean what could go wrong?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by unluky

OK - I got a real cop question. Say you see a car parked in a lot of a business that has been out of business for a long time. I'm interested in it, but it's been sitting there for over a year. I grabbed the VIN and ran a car fax - came back good, but to a private owner. Tags are a month or some from expiring and it has plates on it. I was hoping it belonged to one of the failed businesses and I could track it down.

Is there any legal way of tracking down the owner of a car like that? Hate seeing it just sitting there when I might be willing to trade some cash for it and have it be my next project.

Any avenue? Besides busting out the window, calling the cops to report it and see who shows up? =)

Is the vehicle code enforced on the property? If so, contact local law enforcement and let them know about the car. Maybe they will assist you in contacting the owner. The caveat is the registered owner may be different than the actual owner, but it's a 50/50 shot.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Is the vehicle code enforced on the property? If so, contact local law enforcement and let them know about the car. Maybe they will assist you in contacting the owner. The caveat is the registered owner may be different than the actual owner, but it's a 50/50 shot.

I'm not sure what Code Enforced means? It's in a parking spot in a lot on a business that is out of business. Been there about a year I think? Plate were registered, so I assume title and everything is up and up, tags are running out soon. It's never moved though. Prob been there a year?

I was going to find a cop sitting in a lot and pull in and ask him - thought he might bored and want to run it, but I know some of my bigger city copy buddies have said that is a no-no anymore.....

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by unluky

I'm not sure what Code Enforced means? It's in a parking spot in a lot on a business that is out of business. Been there about a year I think? Plate were registered, so I assume title and everything is up and up, tags are running out soon. It's never moved though. Prob been there a year?

I was going to find a cop sitting in a lot and pull in and ask him - thought he might bored and want to run it, but I know some of my bigger city copy buddies have said that is a no-no anymore.....

We need a lawful reason to run it, but a vehicle parked in the same spot for a year on business property could be lawful if we received a call for service or we are doing patrol checks and find the vehicle suspicious (..I would run a vehicle that has been parked for an extended period of time in the lot of a business that is no longer operating; think....."broken windows policing"). There's always a way. Call it in.

[vreihen16]

In NY State, our government will sell DMV data to anyone willing to pay for it. For example, many online car sales sites let you punch in your plate number and their site pulls the make/model/year/VIN to make a trade-in offer.

Search the web, because I'd bet that there's a web site out there somewhere that will look up plates for a few bucks. Ditto for criminal/background checks.....