GM Red Tag sale... Corvette Z06 $65K...

[M3MIKE]

Originally Posted by lyndon_h

Simply because they aren't part of the UAW. Employee benefits are what is killing the American car companies (at least GM).

A very small part of the equation. The foreign car companies are paying competitive wages. The UAW is an additional cost per car but not much. It is the american cars that nobody wants, thats the problem. Enough with the gimmicks and retro cars. Name one innovative american car in the last ten years? Look what Ford did to Range Rover and Jag in the short time they owned them.They can't sell Fords never mind Jags and RRs. GM, Does anybody want a Buick or Oldsmobile when you can have a Toyota Honda or Audi for the same price or less?

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Yep, my wife's Oddysey says 27 mpg HWY, but we never got more than 23...
I HIGHLY doubt Corvette with 7.0L engine gets anything close to 26 mpg HWY at 40 mph...

325 can hardly get that...

In any case, I never said that Corvette is nothing short than one of the best US cars...but that is about it...

Your other post about using volume to up the power is kind of retarded. The car has supercar performance w/o the price or the mileage penalty. It's pretty good w/ mileage for a 7.0 V8 pushing over 500 hp. You also brought up very subjective statements about design.

For the record, I used to drive an 1992 SC400 with a 4-speed auto. It got 20 mpg on the freeway. The new Z06 would easily top that even w/ 250 more hp.

I would definitely take a Z06 over an M3 at 65 or even 70K. The only people I know who wouldn't are my... guess what... BMW fanboy "friends." This doesn't include my friend who drives an E36 M3 and my other friend who grew up w/ MB.

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by M3MIKE

Why is BMW the worst car you've ever owned?

runflats hit a nail 1 month of ownership had to replace.., my door won't unlock, lock..recall, turn signal bulb always go out always getting errors, navi sucks. It's fun to drive.. But I wish it can be reliable like those damn Japs.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I HIGHLY doubt ...

Basically when presented with facts (including a MPG test conducted in the UK which proves that the Z06 can get to 30+ MPG if driven correctly) you disregard fact and go back to "opinion".

Great technique!

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Basically when presented with facts (including a MPG test conducted in the UK which proves that the Z06 can get to 30+ MPG if driven correctly) you disregard fact and go back to "opinion".

Great technique!

i'm coming into this one a bit late, but there is a difference between "driven correctly" and "driven to get 30 MPG."

here's the article though: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10...hon-in-the-uk/ 30.96 MPG was the final figure. kind of a waste because nobody would probably ever drive the car like that. personally, i don't put much value into those kind of numbers because they aren't really applicable to the real world. similar to how top gear got an m3 sedan to have better gas mileage than a prius around the track. but saying that an m3 gets better MPG than a prius would be a joke, even though it was factually true in that instance.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Basically when presented with facts (including a MPG test conducted in the UK which proves that the Z06 can get to 30+ MPG if driven correctly) you disregard fact and go back to "opinion".

Great technique!

I have seen a different set of "facts" and they all differ from each other. Nevertheless, impressive mileage for a such a large engine.
The bottom line is it gets 15 mpg in the city, ~24 on the hwy... Show me one person whose driveway connects to the hwy...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by twinturbo335

runflats hit a nail 1 month of ownership had to replace.., .

I guess other cars avoid nails by themselves?

[M3MIKE]

Originally Posted by twinturbo335

runflats hit a nail 1 month of ownership had to replace.., my door won't unlock, lock..recall, turn signal bulb always go out always getting errors, navi sucks. It's fun to drive.. But I wish it can be reliable like those damn Japs.

Navi works fine for me. Nail in the tire is BMW's fault? Turn signal thing I remember from my old 3 series. They changed the entire socket the bulb fits into. Problem solved. Your locking problem is that the comfort access? I have same problem. Your problems are not so bad.

[M3MIKE]

I don't think MPG should be an issue when buying a $75k sports car. If the Corvette will be your weekend fun car it's not an issue. If it will be your daily driver you have bigger issues to be cocerned about.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by M3MIKE

I don't think MPG should be an issue when buying a $75k sports car. If the Corvette will be your weekend fun car it's not an issue. If it will be your daily driver you have bigger issues to be cocerned about.

I agree with you completely...

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I have seen a different set of "facts" and they all differ from each other. Nevertheless, impressive mileage for a such a large engine.
The bottom line is it gets 15 mpg in the city, ~24 on the hwy... Show me one person whose driveway connects to the hwy...

The plain fact is the M3 gets the gaz guzzler tax and the Z06 does not. The Federal Government determined that one is a gas guzzler and that's the M3 which kind of makes your point null and void about the Z06 being a gas waster doesn't it?

Both are V8's except one produces a sh*t load more HP, and is more fuel efficient. Plain and simple the LS7 is a more powerful and efficient engine than the S65B40. You should research the facts before you make claims about Vettes having "horrible mpg".

[M3MIKE]

Originally Posted by NewSong

The plain fact is the M3 gets the gaz guzzler tax and the Z06 does not. The Federal Government determined that one is a gas guzzler and that's the M3 which kind of makes your point null and void about the Z06 being a gas waster doesn't it?

Both are V8's except one produces a sh*t load more HP, and is more fuel efficient. Plain and simple the LS7 is a more powerful and efficient engine than the S65B40. You should research the facts before you make claims about Vettes having "horrible mpg".

Let's see in 3 or 4 years which car has a better resale value. I think I already know the answer judging by that black Z06 Listed at $58k. BTW gas is $2.50 gallon now.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by NewSong

The plain fact is the M3 gets the gaz guzzler tax and the Z06 does not. The Federal Government determined that one is a gas guzzler and that's the M3 which kind of makes your point null and void about the Z06 being a gas waster doesn't it?

Both are V8's except one produces a sh*t load more HP, and is more fuel efficient. Plain and simple the LS7 is a more powerful and efficient engine than the S65B40. You should research the facts before you make claims about Vettes having "horrible mpg".

I could be wrong, but I believe the "gas guzzler" tax is only for imports that exceed a certain consumption, not domestics.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by M3MIKE

Let's see in 3 or 4 years which car has a better resale value. I think I already know the answer judging by that black Z06 Listed at $58k. BTW gas is $2.50 gallon now.

Who cares? Do you buy cars based on some lame resale percentage?

Is that why you spent $60,000 on a car that gets walked by a $58,000 car all day long?

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by E90ice

I could be wrong, but I believe the "gas guzzler" tax is only for imports that exceed a certain consumption, not domestics.

Yes, you are clearly wrong.

The Gas Guzzler Tax is a Federal excise tax applied to the domestic sale of new vehicles that don't meet certain fuel economy standards. Vehicles that get at least 22.5 mpg (combined) don't have to pay the Gas Guzzler Tax. Hence the Z06 at 24MPG doesn't have the tax, but the E9x M3 does because it can only reach 20MPG peak (more like 13-14 in most driving).

Some cars that have the gas guzzler tax:
- Lamborghini Murcielago (ITL)
- variants of the Mustang (U.S)
- XLR (U.S)

Notice two of the above examples are cars from the U.S.

Here's a document you can read that details the models that fall under the Gas Guzzler Tax for 2008:
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07018.pdf

[Subw00er]

With my z06, I average about 19mpg with mixed driving. Very good!

But really, does anyone actually care about gas mileage with these cars?!

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by M3MIKE

A very small part of the equation. The foreign car companies are paying competitive wages. The UAW is an additional cost per car but not much. It is the american cars that nobody wants, thats the problem. Enough with the gimmicks and retro cars. Name one innovative american car in the last ten years? Look what Ford did to Range Rover and Jag in the short time they owned them.They can't sell Fords never mind Jags and RRs. GM, Does anybody want a Buick or Oldsmobile when you can have a Toyota Honda or Audi for the same price or less?

Yeah, they pay competitive wages, but does does the Japanese Big 3 also have the huge retiree pensions to pay as well? While on top of paying current workers, the Big 3 pay their retirees their salaries as well......

[M3MIKE]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Who cares? Do you buy cars based on some lame resale percentage?

Is that why you spent $60,000 on a car that gets walked by a $58,000 car all day long?

This coming from a man that's worried about gas mileage

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Both are V8's except one produces a sh*t load more HP, and is more fuel efficient. Plain and simple the LS7 is a more powerful and efficient engine than the S65B40. You should research the facts before you make claims about Vettes having "horrible mpg".

You got your facts messed up a little bit:
Z06 engine is 7.0L producing max power of 505 HP (M5 does it with 5.0L engine)
The M3 engine is 4.0L producing max power of 414 HP

So, 43% larger engine that produces 18% more power...

I would not call it a "sh*t load more HP"...

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by dr325i

You got your facts messed up a little bit:
Z06 engine is 7.0L producing max power of 505 HP (M5 does it with 5.0L engine)
The M3 engine is 4.0L producing max power of 414 HP

So, 43% larger engine that produces 18% more power...

I would not call it a "sh*t load more HP"...

Right, we all know that horsepower increases linearly with displacement


And what kind of math are you doing?

The LS7 is 1.75 times as big as the M3's V8 and 1.4 times as big as the M5.

[M3MIKE]

Originally Posted by dr325i

You got your facts messed up a little bit:
Z06 engine is 7.0L producing max power of 505 HP (M5 does it with 5.0L engine)
The M3 engine is 4.0L producing max power of 414 HP

So, 43% larger engine that produces 18% more power...

I would not call it a "sh*t load more HP"...

And the M5, M3 and M6 are all better everyday cars.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by dr325i

You got your facts messed up a little bit:
Z06 engine is 7.0L producing max power of 505 HP (M5 does it with 5.0L engine)
The M3 engine is 4.0L producing max power of 414 HP

So, 43% larger engine that produces 18% more power...

I would not call it a "sh*t load more HP"...

That 5L engine is also a V10. The LS7 physically isn't a big engine. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the 4.0 V8 is physically bigger then the LS7.

Who cares if an engine is 10 liters? If the car has decent fuel economy and performs like nothing else, who cares? Sure it is impressive companies can get 230 HP out of a 2 liter 4 banger, but who seriously gives a shit and factors it into their buying decision?