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      03-07-2021, 03:04 PM   #23
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It is interesting that Dukec made a food reference. Saying that design has nothing to do with pretty or ugly is like saying food has nothing to do with tasting good or being repulsive and spoiled.

The irony is that with food, it is sometimes hard to have a healthy meal that tastes good. With cars, it is quite easy to have a fuel efficient car or a high performance car and still make it look good. They really are mutually exclusive qualities.
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      03-07-2021, 04:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Yeah, probably not. He doesn't listen to anybody, why would he listen to me? But as they say - feedback is a gift. I do intend it constructively.
My feedback is positive.

I just went to the dealer to see the G8x again, can't wait to order mine.

Great looking car! I will go with Alpine white, great contrast with the black grill.
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      03-07-2021, 08:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Yeah, probably not. He doesn't listen to anybody, why would he listen to me? But as they say - feedback is a gift. I do intend it constructively.
My feedback is positive.

I just went to the dealer to see the G8x again, can't wait to order mine.

Great looking car! I will go with Alpine white, great contrast with the black grill.
Cool man. I mean that sincerely, despite your earlier snark. BMW deserves to hear from both the people who like and dislike their products. Good for you that they are meeting your needs. Me, I've moved on, although as you can see I'm still a little frustrated at the arrogance that they've approached negative feedback.
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      03-07-2021, 10:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Cool man. I mean that sincerely, despite your earlier snark. BMW deserves to hear from both the people who like and dislike their products. Good for you that they are meeting your needs. Me, I've moved on, although as you can see I'm still a little frustrated at the arrogance that they've approached negative feedback.
His feedback are numbers. Only way to prove him wrong are statistics.

So far he is right...
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      03-08-2021, 01:26 AM   #27
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He may well end up being right, in terms of sales...but it'll be for all the wrong reasons. BMW are no longer the focused drivers car they were; that has been diluted so that they are a car for the masses now. Fair enough for sales, but it's a 'no' from me.
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      03-08-2021, 03:35 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
My feedback is positive.
I just went to the dealer to see the G8x again, can't wait to order mine.
Great looking car! I will go with Alpine white, great contrast with the black grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
His feedback are numbers. Only way to prove him wrong are statistics.
So far he is right...
Please elaborate.

G80/G82 deliveries release officially happens only later this month.

Do you base your point of view on the vast number of HEA cars (Händler-Erst-Ausstattung - dealer demo cars / launch cars) produced over the past couple of months to be on display at showrooms worldwide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dealerships are required to buy HEA cars regardless of customer orders: for BMW that's a sold car, for a dealership not necessarily. So the question is whether BMW can also score easy homeruns with non HEA cars (customer orders).

Do you know how G80/G82 customer orders (non HEA cars) are evolving, what's the tendency noticed by your dealer ? Is it like 2015-2016 where customers frantically tried to get hold of a HEA M2 since deliveries release date (April 16, 2016) in order to jump the long queue (for some, the wait lasted even a couple of seasons - M2 production was cranked up late 2016 to meet high demand) ? Does the usual new (generation) M model ordering frenzy also happen with the G80/G82 ?

To get an indication: you mention that you consider ordering a G80/G82 - did your dealer tell you that, if you're not interested in buying the dealer demo launch car on display in the showroom, patience is required because of long waiting lists ? Or did your dealer tell you on the contrary that you can customize your very own G80/G82 and take delivery already someday this Summer ? Are you offered an interesting discount or did your dealer tell you to stick close to MSRP because of massive demand ?
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      03-08-2021, 07:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but dealerships are required to buy HEA cars regardless of customer orders: for BMW that's a sold car, for a dealership not necessarily.
Okay, you're incorrect. HEA cars are listed in DAR (Daily Availability Report) and on locates as generally Priority 2 (dealer use) or, if dealers do it, Priority 1 (sold). In either case they aren't retailed when sent to the dealerships. In fact we are embargoed from filming, driving, or selling them right now. Staring at a yellow stick M4 right now that's not RDR'd (Retail Delivery Report).
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      03-08-2021, 11:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA1 View Post
Okay, you're incorrect. HEA cars are listed in DAR (Daily Availability Report) and on locates as generally Priority 2 (dealer use) or, if dealers do it, Priority 1 (sold). In either case they aren't retailed when sent to the dealerships. In fact we are embargoed from filming, driving, or selling them right now. Staring at a yellow stick M4 right now that's not RDR'd (Retail Delivery Report).
Thanks for the clarification.

Embargo will be lifted soon.
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      03-08-2021, 01:11 PM   #31
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The fact that there are so many interviews defending the design sort of tells you all you need to know. To further that statement creating paid advertisement articles (basically fake interviews) really is just a comedic effort at this point.

I don’t fault BMW for taking a design risk. I don’t like it but I’m just one voice. Others might love it and that’s fine. What really gets me is the sheer arrogance of their marketing and design team which basically amounts to “Fuck you, you’re wrong”. As a customer it’s off putting and insulting. What they should have come out with is “We’re trying something new, let’s see how it works”. Furthermore, BMW is no longer the clear driver’s choice for sporty upscale cars. Frankly, the competition has caught up. I could perhaps live with a undesirable design if it were clearly a top performer but on paper it doesn’t look promising. More weight, auto transmission in competition versions, AWD, etc, I’m really struggling to see what separates this from Audi, Merc, and the likes. The upcoming reviews will give a glimpse but as someone who is looking to change cars in the next few years, BMW is no longer the automatic choice.
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      03-08-2021, 02:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Please elaborate.

G80/G82 deliveries release officially happens only later this month.

Do you base your point of view on the vast number of HEA cars (Händler-Erst-Ausstattung - dealer demo cars / launch cars) produced over the past couple of months to be on display at showrooms worldwide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dealerships are required to buy HEA cars regardless of customer orders: for BMW that's a sold car, for a dealership not necessarily. So the question is whether BMW can also score easy homeruns with non HEA cars (customer orders).

Do you know how G80/G82 customer orders (non HEA cars) are evolving, what's the tendency noticed by your dealer ? Is it like 2015-2016 where customers frantically tried to get hold of a HEA M2 since deliveries release date (April 16, 2016) in order to jump the long queue (for some, the wait lasted even a couple of seasons - M2 production was cranked up late 2016 to meet high demand) ? Does the usual new (generation) M model ordering frenzy also happen with the G80/G82 ?

To get an indication: you mention that you consider ordering a G80/G82 - did your dealer tell you that, if you're not interested in buying the dealer demo launch car on display in the showroom, patience is required because of long waiting lists ? Or did your dealer tell you on the contrary that you can customize your very own G80/G82 and take delivery already someday this Summer ? Are you offered an interesting discount or did your dealer tell you to stick close to MSRP because of massive demand ?

Not sure where you heading but vielen Dank for explaining what HEA means, let's not continue in German or should we?

We have discussions like that every 7-8 years, everytime a new model is lunched and my feedback is based on 24 years BMW only with usally more than 3 at the same time.
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      03-08-2021, 02:25 PM   #33
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I think I speak for most BMW owners and say that guy can f*ck right off with what he thinks.
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      03-10-2021, 07:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Please elaborate.

G80/G82 deliveries release officially happens only later this month.

Do you base your point of view on the vast number of HEA cars (Händler-Erst-Ausstattung - dealer demo cars / launch cars) produced over the past couple of months to be on display at showrooms worldwide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dealerships are required to buy HEA cars regardless of customer orders: for BMW that's a sold car, for a dealership not necessarily. So the question is whether BMW can also score easy homeruns with non HEA cars (customer orders).

Do you know how G80/G82 customer orders (non HEA cars) are evolving, what's the tendency noticed by your dealer ? Is it like 2015-2016 where customers frantically tried to get hold of a HEA M2 since deliveries release date (April 16, 2016) in order to jump the long queue (for some, the wait lasted even a couple of seasons - M2 production was cranked up late 2016 to meet high demand) ? Does the usual new (generation) M model ordering frenzy also happen with the G80/G82 ?

To get an indication: you mention that you consider ordering a G80/G82 - did your dealer tell you that, if you're not interested in buying the dealer demo launch car on display in the showroom, patience is required because of long waiting lists ? Or did your dealer tell you on the contrary that you can customize your very own G80/G82 and take delivery already someday this Summer ? Are you offered an interesting discount or did your dealer tell you to stick close to MSRP because of massive demand ?
Not sure where you heading but vielen Dank for explaining what HEA means, let's not continue in German or should we?

We have discussions like that every 7-8 years, everytime a new model is lunched and my feedback is based on 24 years BMW only with usally more than 3 at the same time.
This is simply not true. Maybe you'll claim some superiority in your assessment based on a longer ownership experience but I've participated in BMW forum discussions for 12-13 years (despite this account's age) regarding the launches of new models and none in that time have received such backlash as the G8x.

And nice job ignoring Artemis's entire comment. If you're not sure where he's heading I'd suggest actually reading the post.
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      03-10-2021, 11:18 PM   #35
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They keep publishing all of these Dukec articles where he basically says that we, the consumers of the products that he is designing, don't have a clue. Sort of like Steve Jobs saying that Apple will tell us what we need/like. We obviously disagree with his opinion of himself and his designs. The problem is that no one at BMW seems to be listening to us and we are certainly not listening to them. Basically neither seems to care/believe/trust/etc what the other side thinks. The more of these articles they keep publishing the more foolish they look with their opinions.
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      03-10-2021, 11:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
This is simply not true. Maybe you'll claim some superiority in your assessment based on a longer ownership experience but I've participated in BMW forum discussions for 12-13 years (despite this account's age) regarding the launches of new models and none in that time have received such backlash as the G8x.

And nice job ignoring Artemis's entire comment. If you're not sure where he's heading I'd suggest actually reading the post.
Didn't know he hired you as his lawyer

People been crying like Babies on the E9x forums once BMW announced the 6 Cylinder for the F8x... Today nobody cares anymore.

Same happen with the V10 vs V8 in the M5/M6.

E65/E66 ... "the ugliest" 7 Series ... Sale was crazy on that generation, people are still complaining tho.

Let me know if you would like to read more...
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      03-11-2021, 12:36 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Please elaborate.

G80/G82 deliveries release officially happens only later this month.

Do you base your point of view on the vast number of HEA cars (Händler-Erst-Ausstattung - dealer demo cars / launch cars) produced over the past couple of months to be on display at showrooms worldwide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dealerships are required to buy HEA cars regardless of customer orders: for BMW that's a sold car, for a dealership not necessarily. So the question is whether BMW can also score easy homeruns with non HEA cars (customer orders).

Do you know how G80/G82 customer orders (non HEA cars) are evolving, what's the tendency noticed by your dealer ? Is it like 2015-2016 where customers frantically tried to get hold of a HEA M2 since deliveries release date (April 16, 2016) in order to jump the long queue (for some, the wait lasted even a couple of seasons - M2 production was cranked up late 2016 to meet high demand) ? Does the usual new (generation) M model ordering frenzy also happen with the G80/G82 ?

To get an indication: you mention that you consider ordering a G80/G82 - did your dealer tell you that, if you're not interested in buying the dealer demo launch car on display in the showroom, patience is required because of long waiting lists ? Or did your dealer tell you on the contrary that you can customize your very own G80/G82 and take delivery already someday this Summer ? Are you offered an interesting discount or did your dealer tell you to stick close to MSRP because of massive demand ?
As always, nice post. Completely invalidating the whole "he's proven" part.
Speaking of the M2 order frenze, it brought back memories of being on the 30+ waiting list for an entire year before I was able to get mine. Good times, great car.
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      03-11-2021, 12:40 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
His feedback are numbers. Only way to prove him wrong are statistics.

So far he is right...

Statistics showing he's right? Where? How? You have the numbers?

We get it, you like this horrid design, you've been posting that everywhere, but 80% of the people doesn't.
So be prepared to be laughed at driving your car where people can see.
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      03-11-2021, 01:20 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Didn't know he hired you as his lawyer

People been crying like Babies on the E9x forums once BMW announced the 6 Cylinder for the F8x... Today nobody cares anymore.

Same happen with the V10 vs V8 in the M5/M6.

E65/E66 ... "the ugliest" 7 Series ... Sale was crazy on that generation, people are still complaining tho.

Let me know if you would like to read more...
I don't see your point, or how this relates to this thread...?
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      03-11-2021, 01:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
Statistics showing he's right? Where? How? You have the numbers?

We get it, you like this horrid design, you've been posting that everywhere, but 80% of the people doesn't.
So be prepared to be laughed at driving your car where people can see.
I can handle that... wouldn't be the first time people laughing at me!

Feel free and go ahead!
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      03-11-2021, 01:32 AM   #41
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I don't see your point, or how this relates to this thread...?
Haters gonna hate... that's the point.

Most critical are people who wouldn't buy a anyway because their old bimmer is so much better
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      03-11-2021, 02:29 AM   #42
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I guess my issue is the turn that BMW have taken. I bought my e91 because it's a great driver's car (and practical). It's well engineered and has clean looks.

Nowadays to get that from a new car I need to buy a Hyundai! WTF is going on?

That would all be understandable if BMW were just targeting the mass market who just want a plush car to look good/successful in (which I'm sure they are, because ££$€), but then they come out with this unconventional, divisive design!? It makes no sense. It's not just ugly (in the eyes of many), but out of keeping with BMW's heritage. Again, that's fine if that's what they want to do, but they have the audacity to dismiss all critics and tell everyone that their opinion is wrong... It's hard to swallow.
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      03-11-2021, 08:10 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
We have discussions like that every 7-8 years, everytime a new model is lunched and my feedback is based on 24 years BMW only with usally more than 3 at the same time.
This is simply not true. Maybe you'll claim some superiority in your assessment based on a longer ownership experience but I've participated in BMW forum discussions for 12-13 years (despite this account's age) regarding the launches of new models and none in that time have received such backlash as the G8x.
And nice job ignoring Artemis's entire comment. If you're not sure where he's heading I'd suggest actually reading the post.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Moderators on fire off the shoulder of Bimmerpost. I watched carnage happening near the G80/G82 section. All those deleted posts will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to cry.
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      03-11-2021, 08:30 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
I can handle that... wouldn't be the first time people laughing at me!
Feel free and go ahead!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Haters gonna hate... that's the point.
Most critical are people who wouldn't buy a anyway because their old bimmer is so much better
What matters is what you personally like. So if you like your new car: more power to you.
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