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      08-17-2022, 12:10 PM   #45
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A bit strange that bmw is showing of the m ev test mule this early, are they trying to one up a competitor? The c63 is coming out soon but that's just a hybrid.
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      08-17-2022, 12:10 PM   #46
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It is fine for general and spirited road driving(which represents the driving of majority of BMW buyers). But take that to the track, 5000+lbs is going to eat up things like the brakes.

We are a decade+ away from a MkV Supra size EV, sub 3500lbs, rwd, 350hp(with decent range).

BMW track rats will be waiting awhile for BMW to produce something for track days. Solid state batteries will be the breakthrough. Porsche has said Cayman will be all electric by 2025, lets see what they can come up with. I have my doubts, there is only so much Porsche can do with current state of battery tech.
In a way this push to EVs [for enthusiast cars like the M3] is sort of the answer to a problem that never existed IMO.

In exchage for superior throttle response/0-60 times, we are taking multiple steps back in the realm of weight, range, cost to consumers, track performance/longevity, and "engagement" to the driver in the form of gears and sound. It'll take decades to improve in those metrics but who knows how close it will match say the current crop of ICE cars. To add to that, having to create a whole new EV infrastructure when an ICE one already exists is both lengthy and costly.

In order to keep up with competitors an EV M3 must happen, but all this fracas to kill off every last ICE car (ofc not BMW's fault) is just pushing it too far.
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      08-17-2022, 12:16 PM   #47
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R.I.P Bmw
The writing is on the wall - all manufacturers are going to do this at some point because the fines, regulations, and other legal BS will be so great that they won't have a choice. I love my turbochargers and I6s, but one day we'll wake up and most of that will be gone - just like the manual transmission. This isn't RIP BMW, this is RIP ICE. I have some hope that the Porsche synthetic fuel will keep the ICE around a bit longer, but I'm not holding my breath.
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      08-17-2022, 12:31 PM   #48
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I'm sure this tech will be objectively impressive on a future model and make unheard of amounts of power compared to ICE BMWs. But I'm not so sure what will be the differentiating factor between this and every other heavy EV sedan? Handling and software is about all they can do, but even then they will be restricted by current battery tech. At least Porsche is intending on making the EV Boxster "mid-engined" with the battery placement.
Will this be another heavy sedan...yes. This article is nothing more than to announce they are working on a sophisticated 4 motor awd system. System like on the Rimac Nevera, control each wheel independently. Having 4 separate sources of power to control via computers, is a huge advantage over traditional awd. Not new tech, but BMW M should develop something special with the system. Rivian quad motor is getting great reviews.
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      08-17-2022, 12:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
R.I.P Bmw
The writing is on the wall - all manufacturers are going to do this at some point because the fines, regulations, and other legal BS will be so great that they won't have a choice. I love my turbochargers and I6s, but one day we'll wake up and most of that will be gone - just like the manual transmission. This isn't RIP BMW, this is RIP ICE. I have some hope that the Porsche synthetic fuel will keep the ICE around a bit longer, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah it's a sad inevitability but it's not gunna happen until they can convince the majority of drivers to make the switch, which I think is still 5-10 years away. Lots of wasted R&D money designing this stuff now when tech is going to be completely different and better 10 years from now and todays EVs will be obsolete. I stand by my statement of RIP BMW as we know them today, they aren't going to be able to replicate their "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience with electric. BMW will lose its sporty appeal and will just become a luxury car maker like MB has become. Their new slogan should be "The Ultimate Appliance Machine".
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      08-17-2022, 12:46 PM   #50
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Yeah it's a sad inevitability but it's not gunna happen until they can convince the majority of drivers to make the switch, which I think is still 5-10 years away. Lots of waisted R&D money designing this stuff now when tech is going to be completely different and better 10 years from now and todays EVs will be obsolete. I stand by my statement of RIP BMW, they aren't going to be able to replicate their "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience with electric. BMW will lose its sporty appeal and will just become a luxury car maker like MB has become.
Funny enough Toyota has been dragging their feet getting into EV's. Besides their pathetic attempt with Subaru, the bZ4X. Toyota has the most patents in the solid state battery space. They have the first test vehicle running solely on solid state batteries. Toyota knows it would be wasting money right now go full steam with current battery tech. They are thinking ahead, while media tries to attack them for being late to EV party.
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      08-17-2022, 12:55 PM   #51
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Kind of has an Audi TT vibe going on.
I smell way too much auto union trolls in here lately.
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      08-17-2022, 01:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
Yeah it's a sad inevitability but it's not gunna happen until they can convince the majority of drivers to make the switch, which I think is still 5-10 years away. Lots of wasted R&D money designing this stuff now when tech is going to be completely different and better 10 years from now and todays EVs will be obsolete. I stand by my statement of RIP BMW as we know them today, they aren't going to be able to replicate their "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience with electric. BMW will lose its sporty appeal and will just become a luxury car maker like MB has become. Their new slogan should be "The Ultimate Appliance Machine".
Yeah but this is already sort of the case right now. There's just a handful of BMWs that still earn the admiration of enthusiasts, who are a dying breed as it is. Otherwise, it feels like 90%+ of BMW customers just want a "nice car" with good tech and a badge to impress the neighbors. BMW of old is dying a slow death because society has changed. People, politicians, culture etc. are different from before.

All I can hope for is that BMW finds a way to make their EVs lighter and better handling than competitors. I'll bolt on some speakers for fake ICE noises and call it a day.
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      08-17-2022, 01:04 PM   #53
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You guys are too funny why is it that Porsche was able to figure out how to build an excellent electric car.

Now that BMW is doing it.. you guys want to cry.


Trust me Bmw has been working on this for many years you guys are now just starting to hear about it.


You guys do realize that the current generation M cars were already approved and signed off many years and years ago before it was ever released.

Trust me Bmw has been working on electrification since the i3.
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      08-17-2022, 01:17 PM   #54
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Yes, with a motor at each wheel.

It's nickname is "tank mode".
I'm pretty sure that's not a zero emission maneuver.
Par for the course for EVs, given their manufacture brings with it twice the carbon footprint than that of a typical ICE.

Never mind, in any case: synthetic fuels will no doubt be more cost-effective to produce by 2030, by which point electro-evangelism will have run out of zeal and BMW M may be thinking again about cylinders.
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      08-17-2022, 01:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
Yeah it's a sad inevitability but it's not gunna happen until they can convince the majority of drivers to make the switch, which I think is still 5-10 years away. Lots of wasted R&D money designing this stuff now when tech is going to be completely different and better 10 years from now and todays EVs will be obsolete. I stand by my statement of RIP BMW as we know them today, they aren't going to be able to replicate their "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience with electric. BMW will lose its sporty appeal and will just become a luxury car maker like MB has become. Their new slogan should be "The Ultimate Appliance Machine".
Yeah but this is already sort of the case right now. There's just a handful of BMWs that still earn the admiration of enthusiasts, who are a dying breed as it is. Otherwise, it feels like 90%+ of BMW customers just want a "nice car" with good tech and a badge to impress the neighbors. BMW of old is dying a slow death because society has changed. People, politicians, culture etc. are different from before.

All I can hope for is that BMW finds a way to make their EVs lighter and better handling than competitors. I'll bolt on some speakers for fake ICE noises and call it a day.
That's fair but when ppl are asked what the BMW brand means, sporty is one of the top descriptors. I don't think society has shifted, I think certain governments have rammed propaganda down ppls throats, held manufacturers hostage with higher taxes, ESG and other regulations, and at the same time have purposely made ICE ownership more expensive.
This is an artificial shift that's not backed up by consumer demand, and in the business world that's a recipe for disaster.
IMO if they placed their focus in the area of charging or different batteries that would go a long way with the consumer. Outside of cost, the charging time and availability of chargers is the biggest hurdle for a consumer. They should change the battery design to be removable, so instead of sitting at a charger for an hour or more, you could pull up and swap out your dead battery for a fully charged one.
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      08-17-2022, 01:18 PM   #56
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The issue is most consumers either don't want EVs or cannot afford EVs, and even fewer consumers want performance related EVs. So while it seems great that companies are spending billions in R&D to get out ahead of it, the consumer demand isn't there, it's not organic it's an artificial push by government. So these companies will spend a ton on R&D and production just to sell hundreds of cars, and end up losing money.
The demand is absolutely there. Most EV's have long waiting lists including Teslas. The biggest issue right now is automakers can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand. Price is an issue but in time it will come down. There are still hurdles in infrastructure though as I can't imagine owning an EV in a situation where you live in an apartment and have to park on the street.
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      08-17-2022, 01:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
The issue is most consumers either don't want EVs or cannot afford EVs, and even fewer consumers want performance related EVs. So while it seems great that companies are spending billions in R&D to get out ahead of it, the consumer demand isn't there, it's not organic it's an artificial push by government. So these companies will spend a ton on R&D and production just to sell hundreds of cars, and end up losing money.
The demand is absolutely there. Most EV's have long waiting lists including Teslas. The biggest issue right now is automakers can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand. Price is an issue but in time it will come down. There are still hurdles in infrastructure though as I can't imagine owning an EV in a situation where you live in an apartment and have to park on the street.
Obviously low production volume Brands will have a waiting list… to add some perspective Tesla has sold 1.9 million cars since 2003. BMW sold 2.1 million last yr.
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      08-17-2022, 01:33 PM   #58
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A bit strange that bmw is showing of the m ev test mule this early, are they trying to one up a competitor? The c63 is coming out soon but that's just a hybrid.
According the interview with the CEO lately, it could well be that we gonna see already a full M EV based on the "Neue Klasse" platform in 2026…so if you look like that, perfect time to start first technology experiments for a next generation…its only 4 years away

And as someone already posted, don't focus on the car you see here…it's completely irrelevant…it's about testing the drivetrain with M components like suspension in order to get a feel for a more performance focused EV car.
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      08-17-2022, 01:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Rat_House View Post
Obviously low production volume Brands will have a waiting list… to add some perspective Tesla has sold 1.9 million cars since 2003. BMW sold 2.1 million last yr.
Read your comments. Not one is without bs, you having an opinion and stating them as facts.

Like this one too. Tesla started selling cars in 2008 but that was their try out roaster. The model S has been around since 2012. Educate yourself and stop spreading your dumb bs.

And I am not even an EV fan but stick to facts.
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      08-17-2022, 01:52 PM   #60
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With four motors, I'd say 800hp is likely the minimum. There's only a handful of 4-motor EVs in existence or development, and they're in the 1200+hp club. Insanity.
Rivian's around 800hp and 960tq; 4 motor.
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It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
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      08-17-2022, 01:58 PM   #61
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With four motors, I'd say 800hp is likely the minimum. There's only a handful of 4-motor EVs in existence or development, and they're in the 1200+hp club. Insanity.
we be changing tires every 1000 miles!
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      08-17-2022, 02:01 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by FrozenGT View Post
You guys are too funny why is it that Porsche was able to figure out how to build an excellent electric car.

Now that BMW is doing it.. you guys want to cry.


Trust me Bmw has been working on this for many years you guys are now just starting to hear about it.


You guys do realize that the current generation M cars were already approved and signed off many years and years ago before it was ever released.

Trust me Bmw has been working on electrification since the i3.
when someone says trust me twice on the internet it must be true

/jokes
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      08-17-2022, 02:02 PM   #63
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First test drives with a prototype for innovative drive and chassis control systems commence. Four electric motors and an integrated driving dynamics control system enable an extremely emotional driving experience in future high-performance sports cars.

Munich. BMW M GmbH is opening the next chapter in its transformation towards electric mobility. With the first test drives of a so-called concept test vehicle for innovative drive and chassis control systems, a multidisciplinary team of developers is now putting to test the hardware and software solutions designed for future fully electric high-performance cars. The concept testing focuses on a four-wheel drive system comprising four electric motors and an integrated driving dynamics control system, which together provide an unprecedented level of performance and experience.

With the completely new drive concept, BMW M GmbH is underscoring its development expertise and, therefore, also its ability to transfer the essence of the letter M into the world of locally emission-free mobility. The purely electric drive system is combined with innovative control systems to redefine the combination of dynamics, agility and precision that is characteristic of BMW M automobiles in a high-performance sports car.

50 years of BMW M GmbH: The future begins in the anniversary year.
Exactly 50 years after its foundation, BMW M GmbH is in the midst of a transformation process towards electric mobility, which not only preserves the unmistakable performance characteristics of its models, but at the same time enriches them with new facets. The anniversary year has already seen the market launch of the all-electric BMW i4 M50 performance car (combined power consumption: 22.5 – 18.0 kWh/100 km according to WLTP; CO2 emissions: 0 g/km; data according to NEDC: –) and the BMW iX M60 (combined power consumption: 24.5 – 21.9 kWh/100 km according to WLTP; CO2 emissions: 0 g/km; data according to NEDC: –). And the BMW i7 M70, the first BMW M automobile based on an all-electric luxury sedan, is to follow as early as next year.

“On our anniversary, we are not only looking back, but above all also looking forward,” says Franciscus van Meel, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW M GmbH. “Before the end of the year, production of the BMW XM, our first high-performance car featuring a V8 M hybrid drive, will commence. Together with our fans all over the world, we are also looking forward to our entry into the LMDh category of the North American IMSA endurance racing series, in which we will also be competing with an eight-cylinder hybrid turbo engine in Daytona and at other events in 2023, as well as in the WEC racing series at Le Mans a year later.”

Specific drive and suspension technology in the guise of a BMW i4 M50.
In order to now bring the drive and chassis technology designed for future, purely electric high-performance cars onto the road for test and tuning drives, the engineers at BMW M GmbH have developed a test vehicle that carries the appropriate genes – both in terms of typical M dynamics and in the field of electric mobility. Based on the BMW i4 M50, a purely electrically powered coupe has been created with a modified body in typical BMW M GmbH style, the wide wheel arches of which permit the integration of specifically manufactured high-performance front and rear axle designs.

The front end of the vehicle features an adapted body strut concept taken from the BMW M3/ M4 series for particularly high torsional rigidity in extremely dynamic driving situations. The arrangement of the radiator units is also based on the configuration developed for the current high-performance sports cars.

Extremely precise, extremely variable: M xDrive four-wheel drive system with four electric motors.
The core of the revolutionary high-performance drive system now making its debut on the road in the test vehicle is an electric M xDrive four-wheel drive system with four electric motors. The fact that all four wheels are each driven by an electric motor opens up completely new possibilities for infinitely variable, extremely precise and at the same time very fast distribution of drive torque. Within milliseconds, the power and torque of the spontaneously reacting electric motors can be dosed so precisely that the load demand signalled via the accelerator pedal can be realised at a level of dynamics that is unattainable using conventional drive systems.

This means that the driver is able to experience entirely new performance characteristics even under extremely demanding conditions such as in highly dynamic situations or adverse road conditions. “Electrification opens up completely new degrees of freedom for us to create M-typical dynamics,” says Dirk Häcker, Head of Development at BMW M GmbH. “And we can already see that we can exploit this potential to the maximum, so that our high-performance sports cars will continue to offer the M-typical and incomparable combination of dynamics, agility and precision in the locally emission-free future.”

Highly integrated control unit for vehicle dynamics and drive control.
The precision during the transfer of drive torque in particular benefits significantly from the electric M xDrive four-wheel drive system. The four motors are connected to a central, highly integrated control unit that permanently monitors the driving condition and the driver's wishes. The ideal power transmission to the road is calculated within milliseconds from the values for the accelerator pedal position, steering angle, longitudinal and lateral acceleration, wheel speeds and other parameters. The signals for this are transmitted just as quickly and directly via a multi-plate clutch and differentials to the four motors, which are able to implement them immediately and precisely.

This form of vehicle dynamics and drive control was brought to practical maturity in intensive development and test phases, initially on virtual models and then on test benches. For completely realistic application of the hardware and software developed for this purpose, the concept test vehicle is now being put on the road. The interior of the four-door coupe is equipped with extensive measuring technology that can be used to analyse in detail every completed driving situation. In this way, the theoretical results for the perfect distribution of drive torque can be compared in the rolling test laboratory with reality on the road and taken into account for further programming.

This detailed work is crucial to ensure that future high-performance models will also be characterised by exactly what has rendered BMW M automobiles unmistakable for the last 50 years: a linear build-up of drive power and lateral dynamics that permits controllable handling right up to the limits. The fact that this limit range is shifted even further by the pioneering drive principle was already apparent during the first test kilometres of the concept test vehicle on closed-off roads. Thanks to the particularly sensitive dosage of drive torque and conversion without perceptible latency, significantly higher cornering speeds can be achieved, even on rain-soaked or snow-covered roads, for example. In this case, the vehicle steers effortlessly and without a tendency to understeer, as the drive torque for the outside rear wheel has already been increased parallel to the steering angle.

The high-performance character of the new drive system is also evident in the recuperation of braking energy. Right up to the limits of driving dynamics, the four motors can assume the function of a generator when braking before a bend, for example, and feed electricity back into the high-voltage battery.

Link to press release: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ormance-models
Tl;dr

so the next M3 is a BEV!
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      08-17-2022, 02:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dr.Deep View Post
According the interview with the CEO lately, it could well be that we gonna see already a full M EV based on the "Neue Klasse" platform in 2026…so if you look like that, perfect time to start first technology experiments for a next generation…its only 4 years away

And as someone already posted, don't focus on the car you see here…it's completely irrelevant…it's about testing the drivetrain with M components like suspension in order to get a feel for a more performance focused EV car.
But who shows off and talks about a test mule this early on? That's the strange part, we know they all do this but gm never talked about testing a mid engine corvette when they were making it. Every thing is under wraps until reveal date.
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      08-17-2022, 02:28 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Deep View Post
According the interview with the CEO lately, it could well be that we gonna see already a full M EV based on the "Neue Klasse" platform in 2026…so if you look like that, perfect time to start first technology experiments for a next generation…its only 4 years away

And as someone already posted, don't focus on the car you see here…it's completely irrelevant…it's about testing the drivetrain with M components like suspension in order to get a feel for a more performance focused EV car.
But who shows off and talks about a test mule this early on? That's the strange part, we know they all do this but gm never talked about testing a mid engine corvette when they were making it. Every thing is under wraps until reveal date.
I see…maybe they just want to show that they do work on M like EVs already….
Marketing stuff, anyway very special these days at BMW if you think what we have seen lately
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      08-17-2022, 02:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by unfoundnemo View Post
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Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
Yes, with a motor at each wheel.

It's nickname is "tank mode".
I'm pretty sure that's not a zero emission maneuver.
Par for the course for EVs, given their manufacture brings with it twice the carbon footprint than that of a typical ICE.
.
This is just plain wrong, reckless and irresponsible…what is your source for that BS?

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...ring-batteries

MIT is siting the EPA.
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