2016 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Chevrolet Camaro

Tacoma · 12-19-2015, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u080570

You do know Bush was the one that did the buyout don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's too inconvenient to remember anything that happened prior to January 2009.

I ignore Motor Trend, as they're fanboys of anything new. I made the mistake of buying their Import Car of the Year back in '84 or so, a Renault. Worst car I ever owned. I put three clutches in it at regular 10k mile intervals. I learned my lesson on that one, and since have never bought a model that didn't have a full year of on the road testing under its belt.

You say too inconvenient to remember anything that happened prior to Jan 2009 and then proceed to hold a grudge about the 1984 Car of the Year?

P-Bass · 12-19-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u080570

You do know Bush was the one that did the buyout don't you?

Yes, and Obama doubled down and screwed the bondholders. GM still declared bankruptcy which they could have done that without the government, Bush and Obama, and had the same results.

But we all know all of Obama's messes are Bush's fault, play it again Sam...

goj · 12-19-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ny325

BMW has lost its driving dynamics. Unless they bring back that tight, heavy feel of their the cars. They won't be winning awards in the near future. Bmw has lost me. I don't like any of the new models that are out. The new 7 looks OK. What's up with that chrome piece running along the side? Looks tacky. Come on BMW, bring back the " Ultimate Driving Machine."

It still has pretty damn good dynamics but that's no longer the only goal of the car.

RM7 · 12-19-2015, 04:38 PM

Soon this will devolve into the "but, but, the interior" argument where 3-series owners claim to have extravagant interiors along the likes of Porsche Panemeras and Bentlys, milled out of a single 7x7 foot block of aluminum and inlaid with gold leaf.

DDD31 · 12-19-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Soon this will devolve into the "but, but, the interior" argument where 3-series owners claim to have extravagant interiors along the likes of Porsche Panemeras and Bentlys, milled out of a single 7x7 foot block of aluminum and inlaid with gold leaf.

What you mean I'm not sitting on leather made from virgin yaks raised by the dalai himself? The outrage....

Michael Schott · 12-20-2015, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaudhrysn

I do have to agree on the well made part. I Looked at some of the new mustangs and their gaps were inconsistent. But, one thing I don't understand and everyone throws around, is how ford cars have so much cheap feeling material in the interior. Well, so does the F30. We have plenty of cheap crap in the interior as well, so while the BMW is definitely a better made car, I don't agree on the ford being extremely cheap on the inside.

My mother has a 2014 Fusion with leather. People complain about the Dakota leather in the F30 but it's 100X better than the leather in her car.

rolltidef32 · 12-20-2015, 08:01 PM

And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang....

Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars.

People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration.

This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30.

P-Bass · 12-20-2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang....

Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars.

People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration.

This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30.

You were flamed for nasty, dogmatic posts, not that you don't personally like the car. Most us here are willing to debate the merits of all automobiles. If you like I'm sure I and others could repost your ridiculous comments (remember the old dumb & fat Americans and southerners and your colleagues who couldn't look down their noses at an American car etc?).

Let's not turn into historical revisionists.

Michael Schott · 12-21-2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang....

Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars.

People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration.

This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30.

Crisp handling was the top priority of the ATS design team and they succeeded. The F30 is a better all around car than the ATS but it's not a better sports sedan. Unfortunately for the enthusiast driver, the ATS drivetrains have serious flaws.

AudiA4 · 12-21-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Crisp handling was the top priority of the ATS design team and they succeeded. The F30 is a better all around car than the ATS but it's not a better sports sedan. Unfortunately for the enthusiast driver, the ATS drivetrains have serious flaws.

Agreed. Pretty ironic on an F30 forum trying to criticize the ATS chassis, which is universally considered best-in-class.

goj · 12-21-2015, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang....

Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars.

People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration.

This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30.

Crisp handling was the top priority of the ATS design team and they succeeded. The F30 is a better all around car than the ATS but it's not a better sports sedan. Unfortunately for the enthusiast driver, the ATS drivetrains have serious flaws.

The new 335hp V6 GM made seems pretty nice. On Wards top 10 engines list.

My issue is that this engine is a Small engine in a Camaro which is significantly less expensive. The interior of the ATS is not what I would consider a significant upgrade from a similarly equipped Camaro.

Let's make no mistake though. Cadillac getting the chassis stuff right should get BMW to step up on the carbon core based G20.

Blubaron79 · 12-21-2015, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang....

Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars.

People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration.

This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30.

Crisp handling was the top priority of the ATS design team and they succeeded. The F30 is a better all around car than the ATS but it's not a better sports sedan. Unfortunately for the enthusiast driver, the ATS drivetrains have serious flaws.

Best point. Great chassis while all its engines are garbage.

AudiA4 · 12-21-2015, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Best point. Great chassis while all its engines are garbage.

For the record, it's about 100x easier to upgrade the drive train than the chassis...and that's what GM has just done with the new 335 HP 3.6L and 8-speed transmission. That gauge cluster though...still garbage.

Blubaron79 · 12-22-2015, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudiA4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Best point. Great chassis while all its engines are garbage.

For the record, it's about 100x easier to upgrade the drive train than the chassis...and that's what GM has just done with the new 335 HP 3.6L and 8-speed transmission. That gauge cluster though...still garbage.

It's still the 8 yr old 3.6. They just keep on updating it. But you are correct.

canukgtp · 12-22-2015, 08:24 AM

Yeah from what I understand, I have not driven it, but the new Malibu is supposed to be a fantastic mid-sized car...and is the Fusion that bad really? It all depends on what you want for a car, if it's about point a to b simple and practical I don't think the offerings from the domestics are worst than the foreign cars

FriskyDingo · 12-22-2015, 10:01 AM

Yeah, go drive a new Altima or Accord. They're dull as shit to drive.

David70 · 12-22-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canukgtp

Yeah from what I understand, I have not driven it, but the new Malibu is supposed to be a fantastic mid-sized car...and is the Fusion that bad really? It all depends on what you want for a car, if it's about point a to b simple and practical I don't think the offerings from the domestics are worst than the foreign cars

Agree, try explaining to someone that buys one of these "garbage" cars the reason paying twice as much for sports/luxury sedan makes any sense. I know I pass when questioned about it.

Vigilante375 · 12-22-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Toyota is loaded with boring ass sh*t cars.

And yet they sell many of those cars like hot cakes. Plus they are very, very reliable. Boring maybe but it has the appeal, that boring people want, with the reliability and price to back it up.

CirrusSR22 · 12-22-2015, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

It's still the 8 yr old 3.6. They just keep on updating it. But you are correct.

Not accurate. The 3.6 V6 "LGX" in the 2016 Cadillacs and 2016 Camaro is an all-new engine.

http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/e...illac-36l.html

Michael Schott · 12-22-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudiA4

For the record, it's about 100x easier to upgrade the drive train than the chassis...and that's what GM has just done with the new 335 HP 3.6L and 8-speed transmission. That gauge cluster though...still garbage.

But most of us want the turbo 4 and I want an MT which is only available with the I4. The BMW N20 is a fantastic engine. The GM I4 turbo is possibly a deal killer. I haven't driven one so can't say for sure.

RM7 · 12-22-2015, 03:06 PM

What they should do with the ATS is drop the NA V6. The 2.0 is a terrific powertrain and has more torque (at least than the outgoing V6). Having more torque makes it faster down low, which is what most people want, as the situations where you get to 100mph and are thinking "wow, I wish I had a lot more torque to go way faster quicker" are pretty rare, so I'd be totally fine with that. Then, they should have a 350hp turbo V6 "v-sport" edition with the ATS-V widebody kit and suspension. That would be an awesome 335/340 killer. As nice as these NA V6s are, having to wring them up to 4+K to make any torque simply takes all the fun out of it IMO.

Nitrousbird · 12-22-2015, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

It's still the 8 yr old 3.6. They just keep on updating it. But you are correct.

And the LS7 is a 10 year old motor that is both unchanged and I'd venture to say better than ANYTHING BMW has offered...

12-19-2015, 04:38 PM	#136
RM7 Brigadier General 2893 Rep 3,470 Posts Drives: Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alaska iTrader: (0)	Soon this will devolve into the "but, but, the interior" argument where 3-series owners claim to have extravagant interiors along the likes of Porsche Panemeras and Bentlys, milled out of a single 7x7 foot block of aluminum and inlaid with gold leaf.
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12-20-2015, 08:01 PM	#139
rolltidef32 National Championship #17 and Counting! 793 Rep 1,508 Posts Drives: 2018 BMW i3s and 2019 X5 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	And to think I would have been flamed to no end in crapping on the Camaro and Mustang.... Guys, not fair to compare a 3 series, and something from Ford or Chevy. Different classes of cars. Sure, you can get a form of leather on a Fusion; can also get it in a Wrangler, but all leather isn't equal nor are the price points for these cars. People who usually buy America pony cars don't cross shop with a German luxury car. Sorry, but the 3 isn't exactly entry level only any longer. BMW has taken it upscale, so sport isn't the primary consideration. This is why the 3 feels more refined than say, an ATS which was penned off of the last gen 3 which was a bit down scale to the F30. __________________ 2018 i3s - Melbourne Red, Tera World, Ceramic Film all windows Packs: Technology, Driver Assistance, HK Audio, Park Distance Control
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12-22-2015, 08:24 AM	#147
canukgtp First Lieutenant 107 Rep 333 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: New-Brunswick iTrader: (0)	Yeah from what I understand, I have not driven it, but the new Malibu is supposed to be a fantastic mid-sized car...and is the Fusion that bad really? It all depends on what you want for a car, if it's about point a to b simple and practical I don't think the offerings from the domestics are worst than the foreign cars __________________ 2018 F80 M3 6MT (current) 2014 F31 328i Touring (sold) 2008 E92 M3 6MT (sold) 2011 E90 335xi (lease up)
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12-22-2015, 10:01 AM	#148
FriskyDingo Rather Ambivalent 380 Rep 755 Posts Drives: Spiritedly Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Trapped In My Mind iTrader: (0)	Yeah, go drive a new Altima or Accord. They're dull as shit to drive.
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12-22-2015, 03:06 PM	#153
RM7 Brigadier General 2893 Rep 3,470 Posts Drives: Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alaska iTrader: (0)	What they should do with the ATS is drop the NA V6. The 2.0 is a terrific powertrain and has more torque (at least than the outgoing V6). Having more torque makes it faster down low, which is what most people want, as the situations where you get to 100mph and are thinking "wow, I wish I had a lot more torque to go way faster quicker" are pretty rare, so I'd be totally fine with that. Then, they should have a 350hp turbo V6 "v-sport" edition with the ATS-V widebody kit and suspension. That would be an awesome 335/340 killer. As nice as these NA V6s are, having to wring them up to 4+K to make any torque simply takes all the fun out of it IMO.
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