The real problem with social media

[vbb]

Sorry in advance if this thread has "old guy ranting" vibes (I'm 43), but I was discussing this with my wife the other day and wanted to open it up to a wider audience to get some opinions. Yes, I know that the AI and algorithms programmed into the leading social media platforms are designed to draw people in and then keep them there, and that can have a huge detrimental effect on the mental health of users, especially young/teenaged users, but this thread isn't about that.

The primary issue that I'm seeing is that people want attention without criticism, and that's just not the way the world works.

If you post up pictures or videos of yourself, your belongings, your vacations, your food...whatever it is...you're doing that in the hopes that people you know, and strangers you don't know will view and like what you post. Some post specifically with financial gain in mind--they want to rack up views and followers so they can cash in--but others do it simply for the dopamine hit of positive attention. The issue is that when you open yourself up in that way, you're also implicitly agreeing that people will not like what you've posted. I feel like you've waived the right to claim you're being victimized or bullied by posting your content, right? So if the thrill of getting attention is going to be outweighed by the inevitable criticisms and negative comments, maybe you shouldn't post anything at all?

I know this is probably a random thread, but I'm navigating the teen and preteen pressure from my kids about why we're opposed to them having social media accounts, so I've spent a lot of time thinking about this recently. I think whoever said "seek respect, not attention" had it exactly right.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by vbb

So if the thrill of getting attention is going to be outweighed by the inevitable criticisms and negative comments, maybe you shouldn't post anything at all?

This has been my view in the past when it relates to "online bullying".... just log the hell off, problem solved

But I've been told that's an insensitive view. Maybe I'm getting old as well....

[tcphoto]

There is a strong sense of entitlement in our society these days and it's only going to increase. I've encountered many people that think that they're budding "Influencers" and are above criticism. I realize that I'm pushing sixty but I've met few people that believe I'm this age, I try to be aware of and learn new things everyday. As a freelancer, I understand the usefulness of social media but you have to keep a perspective on it and how it is a small part of one's business and personal life. As I've heard, just like "..." everyone has an opinion. It seems like very few of us can be realistic when we look in the mirror. As my Pastor says, buckle up Buttercup"

[bagekko]

Along the lines stated, people are hungry for positive attention, and they think likes & etc is validation, but the truth is that it is all fake. For the most part no one gives a sh!t about what you post and everyone just likes everything that its a false sense of positive reinforcement. The people that "need" social media to feel good about themselves moderate everything removing negativity to make it all seem positive. The other bad side is bragging about stuff trying to make others believe their life is so great and perfect to try and make others jealous. Influencers just make the problem even worse as they are phonies preying on others ignorance for money.

Thankfully I do not have daughters as almost the majority of them have mental health issues as a direct result of social media.

[Soul_Glo]

When I grew up I had to make my own entertainment. There was no internet until the mid-90’s. I had friends I’d meet outside the home. My dad disliked noise so no friends were over. He was the kids should be seen and not heard type - so that’s where I get it from! There was no FB in the early 90’s. Internet chat rooms were hardly abuzz. We live in a day and age of technology. It’s a blessing and a curse.
Nowadays some kids rely on social media for validation, self-esteem, problem solving, and even fitting in/belonging. Not all kids follow the crowd and there are some not on social media. My point is we grew up meeting people in person or talking via a corded telephonic in the home (until we got cordless). Kids these days are trying to do the same online. We have ideas about real communication, close friendships… they think that can be achieved and maintained online. You can’t stop kids growing up. They will go behind your back if they are stopped. So may as well bite the bullet. Keep sharing your views with them on how it’s best to seek validation in other ways such as engaging in a hobby or taking up a craft/sport. You could set up an agreement and have monitored accounts (depending on age). You don’t want to be a spy either. Yes it does break a parents heart or annoy them when their child is being subjected to cyber bullying. Yes, more kids have died from silly online challenges such as ingesting tide pods… yes kids do stupid things for acceptance or to be the kid who gets all the attention. A monitored agreement might include time restrictions e.g., one hour and then everyone at the dinner table. Or one hour if you complete your homework. Cut a deal. Set conditions and rewards. Educate them on how to keep safe online. Thankfully all the hype around FB died long ago.. and it won’t be long until Insta-grim does too.. TikTok will too.. until things just get replaced. It keeps rolling… until the next thing.. and that’s the hard part. Keeping up with all the nonsense of what the latest thing is. Just do your best. You can only shield them so much. They will grow up and navigate their way through the world with your guidance. You can only do so much. Hopefully, they never do something stupid and don’t rely on it too much. It will work out.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

When I grew up I had to make my own entertainment. There was no internet until the mid-90’s. I had friends I’d meet outside the home. My dad disliked noise so no friends were over. He was the kids should be seen and not heard type - so that’s where I get it from! There was no FB in the early 90’s. Internet chat rooms were hardly abuzz. We live in a day and age of technology. It’s a blessing and a curse.
Nowadays some kids rely on social media for validation, self-esteem, problem solving, and even fitting in/belonging. Not all kids follow the crowd and there are some not on social media. My point is we grew up meeting people in person or talking via a corded telephonic in the home (until we got cordless). Kids these days are trying to do the same online. We have ideas about real communication, close friendships… they think that can be achieved and maintained online. You can’t stop kids growing up. They will go behind your back if they are stopped. So may as well bite the bullet. Keep sharing your views with them on how it’s best to seek validation in other ways such as engaging in a hobby or taking up a craft/sport. You could set up an agreement and have monitored accounts (depending on age). You don’t want to be a spy either. Yes it does break a parents heart or annoy them when their child is being subjected to cyber bullying. Yes, more kids have died from silly online challenges such as ingesting tide pods… yes kids do stupid things for acceptance or to be the kid who gets all the attention. A monitored agreement might include time restrictions e.g., one hour and then everyone at the dinner table. Or one hour if you complete your homework. Cut a deal. Set conditions and rewards. Educate them on how to keep safe online. Thankfully all the hype around FB died long ago.. and it won’t be long until Insta-grim does too.. TikTok will too.. until things just get replaced. It keeps rolling… until the next thing.. and that’s the hard part. Keeping up with all the nonsense of what the latest thing is. Just do your best. You can only shield them so much. They will grow up and navigate their way through the world with your guidance. You can only do so much. Hopefully, they never do something stupid and don’t rely on it too much. It will work out.

and get them into one or more sports. always helps

[floridaorange]

Your house - your rules. Just because “everyone else is doing it” doesn’t mean your kids get to.

Remind your kids that connecting with strangers or friends online can’t lead to anything worthwhile in any way shape or form.

So it’s a “no.”

[Germanauto]

I'm 30, probably at the tail end age-wise who remembers who the world "used" to be before smartphones, social media, dating apps, and technology in general ruling our lives rather than being a part of it. Unfortunately the progression of technology is a slippery slope with unintended consequences. I'm also convinced that big tech + years of low interest rates were direct contributors to the cost of living and wealth gap spiraling out of control, notably in California. This is the new normal.

The thought has increasingly crept into my mind...why even have kids and subject them to all this?

[vbb]

Thanks for the quick replies and I always appreciate more. To answer a few:
Yes, for sure my house my rules. My wife and I don't believe that we should just outright ban all social media usage (as was pointed out, they're going to do it anyway), but we certainly aren't enabling it. I have been very vocal about the "why" I won't let them have their own Instagram and TikTok accounts right now. I point out how their friends aren't doing anything with their accounts other than seeking attention and trying to be their version of popular. I've mentioned that if they wanted to have a social media account to engage with others that share their hobbies (art, music, sports) that's one thing, but if they want accounts just to post pictures of themselves day in and day out, that's not permitted or even wise. I think they understand...but one can never know for sure.

As to others, I always find it laughable that grown people who have clearly profited off of their fame (views, likes, followers, whatever) then claim to be getting bullied if someone comments that they don't like their hairstyle, clothing or think they look fat or whatever. It's like they're only allowed to be complimented and admired. While that's what they may want, again, it's just not how any of that works.

[dreamingat30fps]

I'm 40 and honestly I think I got the best of both worlds. Growing up I didn't have a cellphone or computer or any of that. As a kid I remember just playing outside with friends, riding bikes, having supersoaker fights, catching lizards etc. My first computer was probably around 6 or 7th grade and it was for my families business. I did not have any internet or anything but it started getting me interested. Then probably around high school maybe a little earlier I got internet and my own computer and really started getting more into it. Still there was no social media like we have now. We did have forums though and chat rooms and I personally enjoyed them and made many online "friends". It was all very kinda niche specific, I was into filmmaking and web design so all the forums and chats revolved around those topics. Anyways I was really into it and so were my close friends. We would have LAN parties in the computer lab playing Age of Empires etc. It was great, I think in part because while it was "online" there was still a large in person aspect to it. I guess it also felt new to us even though I'm sure it had been around for a while then, but you could do simple things and really feel like you were doing something really cool and new.

Anyways I feel around the time Facebook came around is when it started really going down hill. Then we got smart phones which allowed us to have access to this 24/7 365. Now while I still use social media and technology in general for my work. I try to use it less and less and prefer going back to not being connected at all. Maybe it's like when you find some food you really like then you start eating everyday until you become sick of it and never want to eat it again.

[ASAP]

boy oh boy oh boy... i wish this was the only problem with social media...

social media is essentially mutual masturbation for the online world... that's really the absolute best way to describe it... people will claim i am doing it for myself, i don't care about what others think blah blah.... these are exclusively lies across the board... i think you are absolutely correct... and the "business" aspect of it, just drives it further

if you say something that disagrees with the masses, you get immediate mob mentality, especially if it's negative... the other side is basically everyone 1 upping and egging each other on for something better and better and it never steps... so there is essentially 0 authenticity and then you add in content moderation by any corporations where u can't say anything negative about a product and you are doomed... you are then living in what is a fake world... sadly younger folks do not understand this and do not know the world before social media

[vbb]

Originally Posted by ASAP

boy oh boy oh boy... i wish this was the only problem with social media...

social media is essentially mutual masturbation for the online world... that's really the absolute best way to describe it... people will claim i am doing it for myself, i don't care about what others think blah blah.... these are exclusively lies across the board... i think you are absolutely correct... and the "business" aspect of it, just drives it further

if you say something that disagrees with the masses, you get immediate mob mentality, especially if it's negative... the other side is basically everyone 1 upping and egging each other on for something better and better and it never steps... so there is essentially 0 authenticity and then you add in content moderation by any corporations where u can't say anything negative about a product and you are doomed... you are then living in what is a fake world... sadly younger folks do not understand this and do not know the world before social media

I agree 100% that most of what is posted online is "fake" or at least modified or edited to only show the best of someone or something. I agree that it isn't an accurate reflection on how things actually are, and I agree that many people--especially people younger than say 25 who can't remember the world before social media--lose perspective on the fact that what they're seeing isn't completely real.

BUT

Just look at human behavior when there is a news camera or the camera pans the crowd at a sports event. People wave their arms wildly and yell and gesture just to hopefully have the camera shine on them. For what? Because they crave attention. They want to be seen. Social media is just the easiest way to do that these days, because now you don't have to wait for someone else to put a camera on you. You just put the camera on yourself. Social media is just the latest dealer of the attention drug. If we didn't have social media, people would gravitate towards something else for their attention. The point of my thread is that the people that crave attention from others need to prepare themselves for the fact that not all attention is good, and they haven't been victimized if they get negative attention when they put themselves out there in the first place. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by vbb

I agree 100% that most of what is posted online is "fake" or at least modified or edited to only show the best of someone or something. I agree that it isn't an accurate reflection on how things actually are, and I agree that many people--especially people younger than say 25 who can't remember the world before social media--lose perspective on the fact that what they're seeing isn't completely real.

BUT

Just look at human behavior when there is a news camera or the camera pans the crowd at a sports event. People wave their arms wildly and yell and gesture just to hopefully have the camera shine on them. For what? Because they crave attention. They want to be seen. Social media is just the easiest way to do that these days, because now you don't have to wait for someone else to put a camera on you. You just put the camera on yourself. Social media is just the latest dealer of the attention drug. If we didn't have social media, people would gravitate towards something else for their attention. The point of my thread is that the people that crave attention from others need to prepare themselves for the fact that not all attention is good, and they haven't been victimized if they get negative attention when they put themselves out there in the first place. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

i think you are absolutely right

the difference being that back in the day people weren't put in front of a camera every 5 minutes every single day... that makes a huge difference... if someone waves their arms in front of a camera, that may be their only chance or like a once in a lifetime type of thing... now it's endless... there are some influencers online that post the EXACT same thing everyday and people eat it up...i don't know if that's ADD or what but it seems crazy to me

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Remind your kids that connecting with strangers or friends online can’t lead to anything worthwhile in any way shape or form.

lol one of the most ignorant statements I’ve read on here

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by LivingInSalt

lol one of the most ignorant statements I’ve read on here

There’s a difference between people meeting others and connecting online, and children meeting and connecting with strangers online. Very different things. His/her statement isn’t ignorant at all. You wouldn’t plop your 12 year old down in a strange metro area and say “ok honey. Find someone to spend time with and bring you home.” Want to do that as an adult? Have at it.


As for my other issues with social media - I don’t have any besides some car forums. Thank heavens I don’t. It’s a cesspool.

When “conversations” are limited to 150 characters, or can just be thrust upon millions without a chance for actual dialogue, it dehumanizes it. My friend base consists of VERY different people. When you take a chance to truly talk about things, even when you disagree, you see context and individual experiences and can *learn* from each other. Online discourse and social media has killed that. Not only that, but it’s easy to place yourself in an echo chamber that only reinforces what you believe and doesn’t force you to critically examine other points of view, or your own views.

But hey. The rich and powerful that run these services and the politicians who exploit it like it that’s way. We’re a lot more similar than many think, and the more we fight each other and hate each other the less attention gets paid to their reprehensible and abhorrent behavior in search of money, power and dominion.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by vbb

The primary issue that I'm seeing is that people want attention without criticism, and that's just not the way the world works.

It is if you're a narcissist, which is what social media is turning people into.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

30 too like germanauto.

we likely are on the cusp where go 4 years back and those kids has SMARTphones since 10 years old.

timeline for me.

flip phone at 13
smartphone at 18....very limited internet no apps persay
tinder 21
fast ass internet on phone 23

I grew up in both worlds and key point is I developed as an adult before dating apps and cell phones.

its cell phones that have fucked us moreover social media.

kids can't have a convo anymore, and think their life on insta or tok is noble.
all companies and people have to sell out to their massive advertisement potentials

i hate how all my youtube is somewhat pro-right. even tho i def lean that way, i don't want fucking purposely curatered videos re enforcing whatever views I think I have. I go on my friends whose a lib and its the complete opposite. most divise shit i've ever seen in my life.

you got dumbass fucks posting black squares and ukraine flags from their iphones wearing their yeezys and lululemons.

to OPs point you can't challenge these folks anymore. sure you cant dismantle them mentally buy then you are the aggressor.

although i am again only 30, and i do not want to live my life with this negative outlook so i will fight for connection and try to speak my peace on social media and willing to burn.

a lot of people are susceptible to reason and are a lot more neutral than we think....again even in our own right. here we are on social media, and people just fuck around on the internet, a faceless keyboard warriors paradise to feel something even in its nascent stages.

yet all we see is curated lives of tiktok boys and insta hoes....and youtube shitting on biden all day (deserved) but fuck I want something neutral.

There actually is a thing going on tiktok now something abotu "core" where peple have become overstimulated with all this bullshit. 10 steps to invest....how to text a girl....how to blah blah blah....and taken a more feelings based approach to how disconnected people can become with a blueprint to everything because ultimatly we are not robots....what works for one doesnt work for the other. we can't control the future and tragedy can strike at any moment for no reason.

TL;DR 70% of my insta followed accounts are insta fitness girls because i love me some clean eating and athleisure

[chicagob5]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

i hate how all my youtube is somewhat pro-right. even tho i def lean that way, i don't want fucking purposely curatered videos re enforcing whatever views I think I have. I go on my friends whose a lib and its the complete opposite. most divise shit i've ever seen in my life.

Just FYI, the YT algorithm is just showing you more of what you're watching / what it thinks you may like based on your history. Why? To keep you engaged so you stay on the platform longer. If all your watching is pro-right video's, then you'll create your own echo chamber.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by chicagob5

Just FYI, the YT algorithm is just showing you more of what you're watching / what it thinks you may like based on your history. Why? To keep you engaged so you stay on the platform longer. If all your watching is pro-right video's, then you'll create your own echo chamber.

While this is true it's shit. Here is the thing with YT. It does show me things I would be interested in, but it keeps showing me the same things over and over again. I watch YT on my TV when I want to watch something but not really wanting to dedicate serious time to watch a movie or show. Anyways it keeps repeating the same videos over and over. Scroll right same videos, scroll down same videos. On my computer I actually have several YT accounts I can login to just to see different stuff, unfortunately on the TV it's a bit of a pita. I think yes they should recommend the stuff they 100% know you like, but also throw in there something else just to keep it fresh. How do you know I don't like something when you have never shown it to.

Of course then you logout completely and see what it recommends.... wtf are people watching!!

[c63er]

Many broad strokes being used here to paint a picture, but that picture is incomplete.

There is a point of intelligence that must be remembered. The average IQ of the people who populate any given space will determine its quality. That applies to your school, neighborhood or in this case your “community” of the internet.

What dreamingat30fps posted touches on it.

In the early days of the internet, it was very much a niche which naturally attracted the more interested people and those capable of even connecting to it. This would by definition be the most intelligent people in society. And so it was the most intelligent.

Then came the gold rush and the push to make the internet accessable to every single idiot on planet earth, and what better device then a smart phone to enable that.

As interactions morphed from an interaction between two intelligent people (even if the interaction was a simple as a LAn party) to an interaction between one idiot and 10,000 morons, then you saw the internet turn into the cesspool it currently is.

Any attempts to regulate or moderate that cesspool will fail. Just as history has shown us, there are only a handful of ways to deal with a mob of people: 1) either become a singular tyrant / dictator / mob leader (think of our great tech hero ceos and politicians <extreme sarcasm>), 2) become a mindless zombie member of the mob, or 3) barricade and fortify your property and take a defensive position without ever instigating the mob.

There is no going back to anything normal. If you are intelligent, you probably already know this. If you got interrupted by a text while reading this post and jumped to read that message and came back here— well I hope I didn’t write anything offensive!

[vbb]

^I dont think it all boils down to the intelligent vs. the idiots, though that is certainly a part of it. My post was more aimed at the narcissistic, self-centered behavior and how social media has amplified that. This type of behavior cuts across all demographics and intelligence levels. People (not all, but a lot) want to be in the spotlight. They want to be recognized. They NEED to be seen. They're addicted to the attention, just like people get addicted to food and drugs. They may have not had any access to attention before social media, but now anyone with a phone and internet access can be seen and heard. My point is that maybe you should reevaluate things if you're that type of person, but if you do decide to engage, remember that you are opening yourself up to negative comments and attention as well, and if you're not able to handle that, you should log off.

I honestly think the criticism serves a purpose. If people have a negative experience and get their feelings hurt, maybe they'll stop posting. Maybe they'll realize that the "joy" of getting likes from strangers isn't worth the hurt of getting criticism. Afterall, thats how social norms are developed...when someone gets shunned or shamed for their behavior, they usually stop that behavior. But, unfortunately, just like with other addictions, people know it is harmful but can't stop doing it.

[TboneS54]

I'm 39, so didn't have a smart phone till well into my 20s, but I did have internet just at about after puberty and I think boys being boys and saying funny/mean/nasty things/memes, esp in late 90s to 2010 or so turned into the general population thinking this is how boys & men act all the time. We said "F.a.g" and all that as a way to goad a straight kid we didn't like. We were friends with gay guys, we'd help an elderly lady across the street- I'm talking about decent guys, but acting a certain way when you're in your group of friends. I played sports, and you can imagine the things we said on the bus rides to other schools and tournaments. Gave rise to all this "toxic masculinitly" talk and woke stuff.

They took online bullshitting as real life. And now here we are. Online and SM is real life to many, and now we see our 1st amendement rights under attack. I rememember in mid 2010s I think, I noticed censorship creep in. Like this forum or like news articles no longer allowing comments.

What happened to sticks and stones...? We're in big trouble as a people. Covid and all the censorship should be a wake up call, but we're so entrenched in our already-held beliefs, I don't see any going back.

Like others have said, some of us were lucky enough to be the last to have the good life. No cameras, no gps, memorize phone #s and addresses, tell a friend to meet at a certain place/time and you both show up, speak freely, think freely, afford your own place, buy a house, etc.