Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act (RPM Act)

[wdb]

Interesting discussion and it's given me a lot to think about. Thanks everyone.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

I’m not saying current law is excessive in a lot of places, but CA is pretty tough. I am saying that if EPA wanted to really make a difference in air quality or compliance, getting the states on board with better enforcement would make a bigger dent than going after after market parts companies. The only reason I even allow that the EPA has good reason to do so is that you can’t claim states rights on something like pollution that doesn’t obey state lines.

Yeah, you can’t just drive an 18 wheeler, on the street, but if you pass the test for a license you can. Just like you should be able to buy a straight pipe and remove your muffler if it’s for your track car

Well the EPA did reiterate the law and fined some companies within the last year or so and it had an impact on the market hence this bill is a response to that enforcement effort.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Actually it's pretty close to the same.

We all know those stickers are nothing more than a legal loophole.

Cat-less exhaust manufacturers know there's absolutely no way the majority of their products only make it onto only track cars. If that was the case, there would be traffic jams on track days.

Yep.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

Im enjoying all the opinion based facts in this thread backed up with random percentages pulled from out of the blue.

An opinion is not a fact, so enough with your percentages unless you have hard data to back it up. You have no idea how many people do or do not track or race their cars.

1. Doesn't matter if the car gets used at track days or not... if its ever driven on the street it should be compliant with CAA. full stop.

2. Go to any cars n coffee/car meet or even just read peoples mod lists in their signatures on any car forum it's completely obvious most of these illegal tunes & exhausts are installed on road driven cars.

3. Motorcycle community is even worse than cars. Harley just got blasted a few years ago by the EPA with multi million dollar fine for selling illegal tunes/exhaust systems and Ducati straight up sells street bikes straight off the showroom floor with a catless exhaust system in a box. The damn bike doesn't even run well on the stock (catted) exhaust because they know the first thing the owner is going to do is throw the catless system on.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

I’m not saying current law is excessive in a lot of places, but CA is pretty tough. I am saying that if EPA wanted to really make a difference in air quality or compliance, getting the states on board with better enforcement would make a bigger dent than going after after market parts companies. The only reason I even allow that the EPA has good reason to do so is that you can’t claim states rights on something like pollution that doesn’t obey state lines.

Yeah, you can’t just drive an 18 wheeler, on the street, but if you pass the test for a license you can. Just like you should be able to buy a straight pipe and remove your muffler if it’s for your track car

Personally I have zero problems with dedicated track cars, but the bill is clearly written to allow what is essentially unenforceable sales to on-road vehicles.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Maybe the law becomes no cats = four-point harness one the car.

Four Points require a harness bar or roll cage to install correctly, and while not illegal on the street, severely limit the partiality of a car. It would limit the amount of people willing to track their street car and thus gut their cats.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Maybe the law becomes no cats = four-point harness one the car.

Four Points require a harness bar or roll cage to install correctly, and while not illegal on the street, severely limit the partiality of a car. It would limit the amount of people willing to track their street car and thus gut their cars.

Yabut how to enforce. Again you're talking about 10,000 individuals vs. 1 company.

[DrmKlr]

You think they'll pass a law for the stupids that put bags on their M's so they can be stance bro? I would tackle that travesty way before any exhaust laws.

[vreihen16]

The funny part of this whole legislation is that one of my racing buddies fabbed a new custom cat-back lightweight and high-flow exhaust system for my race car at his shop in about two hours and about $20 in scrap pipe...no SEMA vendors/products involved.....

[LakeSurfer]

Originally Posted by Serious

1. Doesn't matter if the car gets used at track days or not... if its ever driven on the street it should be compliant with CAA. full stop.

2. Go to any cars n coffee/car meet or even just read peoples mod lists in their signatures on any car forum it's completely obvious most of these illegal tunes & exhausts are installed on road driven cars.

3. Motorcycle community is even worse than cars. Harley just got blasted a few years ago by the EPA with multi million dollar fine for selling illegal tunes/exhaust systems and Ducati straight up sells street bikes straight off the showroom floor with a catless exhaust system in a box. The damn bike doesn't even run well on the stock (catted) exhaust because they know the first thing the owner is going to do is throw the catless system on.

1. What does that have to do with people making up statistics.

2. See number 1.

3. Good, Harleys are obnoxious bikes and have a more obnoxious following.

[E92William]

Funny how many morons here are complaining about companies being able to sell catless exhausts and such. Screw off you drive a bmw not a Prius. If you wanna save the planet dont go around in a gas guzzling sport sedan

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by E92William

Funny how many morons here are complaining about companies being able to sell catless exhausts and such. Screw off you drive a bmw not a Prius. If you wanna save the planet dont go around in a gas guzzling sport sedan

You mean my M3 that gets 28 mpg on the highway?

That gas guzzler?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Jockey

You mean my M3 that gets 28 mpg on the highway?

That gas guzzler?

While complying with EU and ROW emission standards. Previous post was phenomenally stupid.

[adc]

Originally Posted by wdb

Backstory: the EPA in 2016 sought to "clarify" their interpretation of current regulations in such a way as to put street cars converted to race cars -- with emissions equipment removed -- in their crosshairs. The language got removed but SEMA still decided to push for a law specifically protecting motor sport. Right now EPA chooses not to enforce the regulations on vehicles converted for race use and used only that way. The proposed law would prohibit the EPA from changing their minds about that.

Like others here I see no reason to pollute the air by removing emissions equipment on street cars. But I am an enthusiast and I do enjoy seeing racing of all kinds including racing cars based on street cars. I'm supporting the bills for that reason.

I can guarantee that all the commercial trucks and buses, school buses and whatnot contribute far more to pollution than all the de-catted rice out Civics.

Why won't Congress regulate commercial transport emissions as a place to start, since it will have more - and more lasting - impact.

And if you want to go for the fringes, how about all the motorcycles, scooters and - lawnmowers, let's not forget those.

Let's cut the hypocrisy if we're really after cleaner air and less CO2.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Jockey

You mean my M3 that gets 28 mpg on the highway?

That gas guzzler?

You know, it actually is a gas guzzler if we're being honest. 28mpg is if you drive downhill with a tailwind on the highway. If you drive it aggressively in mixed conditions you won't see 18mpg.


With today's technology, it's easy to have a true 50pmg car, that can accommodate the entire family. Your track driving, or aggressive street driving, in a performance ICE car are completely at odds with the goal of saving the planet. Absolutely orthogonal to the thing.

I'm just as guilty as the next person here on the forum, and I won't pretend differently.

[E92William]

Originally Posted by Jockey

You mean my M3 that gets 28 mpg on the highway?

That gas guzzler?

Lol yeah sure it can get 28mpg buy do YOU get 28mpg. I'm sure not. I've gotten even 14mpg in my 328i and even less in my 335i. They can also get almost 30 on the highway but they dont because I drive them for what they are, sports cars. If you wanted to get 28mpg you wouldnt have gotten an m3. Your car is a gas guzzler the way youre meant to drive it and you wouldnt have gotten it if you didnt mean to drive it in a spirited manner.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by E92William

Lol yeah sure it can get 28mpg buy do YOU get 28mpg. I'm sure not. I've gotten even 14mpg in my 328i and even less in my 335i. They can also get almost 30 on the highway but they dont because I drive them for what they are, sports cars. If you wanted to get 28mpg you wouldnt have gotten an m3. Your car is a gas guzzler the way youre meant to drive it and you wouldnt have gotten it if you didnt mean to drive it in a spirited manner.

What does this have to do with catless exhaust? Oh, nothing. Carry on.

[E92William]

Regardless of a few people that think they're helping the environment by not buying catless downpipes while getting 17mpg in a turbo 3 liter engine. Tons more people like me will decat their cars and not give a flying fuck about emissions regulations or anything like that. Just like we have for decades now and nothing will happen. I live in a non emissions compliant state and when I lived in one that tested them I just got them signed off. Money talks bullshit walks.

[E92William]

So really in the end this act passing or not will not make any difference if anything it will make it slightly easier for companies to sell their products but they will be out there for anyone that wants to buy them regardless

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by adc

Why won't Congress regulate commercial transport emissions as a place to start, since it will have more - and more lasting - impact.

Umm, they do.

Originally Posted by adc

And if you want to go for the fringes, how about all the motorcycles, scooters and - lawnmowers, let's not forget those.

You mean the lawnmower and scooter that burn about 1 gallon/hour? Yeah, that's not contributing hardly anything.

Originally Posted by adc

Let's cut the hypocrisy if we're really after cleaner air and less CO2.

Let's. Your entire post was a whataboutism.

Originally Posted by adc

You know, it actually is a gas guzzler if we're being honest. 28mpg is if you drive downhill with a tailwind on the highway. If you drive it aggressively in mixed conditions you won't see 18mpg.

No, it's not. I got 28 mpg on a recent roadtrip with the cruise control set at 79mph. It does quite well.

My average mpg is right around 21-22 mpg with city and highway driving.

As it turns out, I don't have to race everyone to the next stop light.

Originally Posted by adc

Your track driving, or aggressive street driving, in a performance ICE car are completely at odds with the goal of saving the planet. Absolutely orthogonal to the thing.

Actually, they're not. This is yet another fallacy of yours. As it turns out, you don't have to give up EVERYTHING to save the planet or give a shit. That's why I'm not worried about F1 or NASCAR or the track junkie with his catless track only car.

It's not an all or nothing proposition.

Originally Posted by E92William

Lol yeah sure it can get 28mpg buy do YOU get 28mpg. I'm sure not. I've gotten even 14mpg in my 328i and even less in my 335i. They can also get almost 30 on the highway but they dont because I drive them for what they are, sports cars. If you wanted to get 28mpg you wouldnt have gotten an m3. Your car is a gas guzzler the way youre meant to drive it and you wouldnt have gotten it if you didnt mean to drive it in a spirited manner.

I don't know, stop driving like an asshole?

[LakeSurfer]

Originally Posted by Jockey

I don't know, stop driving like an asshole?

Lol, yeah stop driving your fast sports car fast ya asshole.


I bought my $80k sports car specifically so I could drive it like a Toyota Corolla.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

Lol, yeah stop driving your fast sports car fast ya asshole.


I bought my $80k sports car specifically so I could drive it like a Toyota Corolla.

If you feel the need to race everyone on a public road, especially Susan in her Pathfinder, yeah, you're probably driving like an asshole.