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      09-10-2021, 11:53 AM   #23
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The BMW soul... it's in the pockets of their executives
Hahaha, love BMW forums, if they can't criticize Tesla for lack of performance at the track or slow acceleration over 100 MPH, they'll bring up something about the "soul" or "feel"... Just like then you go to Lexus forums and say anything about BMW they will scream about unreliable German POS. I'm surprised nobody said something like - "...but, but, but what about the built quality?..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmanm4 View Post
So what?
Have you guys driven a Tesla?

It's fast but that's it!!!


There is no fun! No sound, No feel, No Soul, No luxury or detail or even German comfort!
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      09-10-2021, 12:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
but in reality... idk anybody who would buy an f90, rs6, or e63 and be like "you know what i want to track this thing too". Its maybe 0.01% of buyers that actually do that.
Maybe, but wouldn't the lack of stamina also rear it's ugly neck on one or two alpine passes driven in a hoonigan way?
Because that is a scenario for which such cars are used imho.

Also, you see lots of those cars on the nordschleife too imho. Maybe not the majority but not uncommon imho.
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      09-10-2021, 01:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedoy View Post
The BMW soul... it's in the pockets of their executives
Hahaha, love BMW forums, if they can't criticize Tesla for lack of performance at the track or slow acceleration over 100 MPH, they'll bring up something about the "soul" or "feel"... Just like then you go to Lexus forums and say anything about BMW they will scream about unreliable German POS. I'm surprised nobody said something like - "...but, but, but what about the built quality?..."
Before you make such comments and conclusions, you should go drive a e46 M3 and then drive a G80 or G82. You will feel the "soul" that BMW enthusiast talk about. My F82 doesnt even have the soul my e46 M3 had, every generation after the e30/e36/e46 the "soul" started to slip away. I'm still scared to drive my F82 without traction control ON, but with my e46 M3, I could leave it off even in the rain and have total confidence and control! I've driven many cars and the connection you have to the road is only present in "some" cars. The "soul" is not just power, its not just suspension, its many factors that come together. The Miata, MR2 and RX7 were and still are some of my fav Japanese cars with "soul"!
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      09-10-2021, 01:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmanm4 View Post
Before you make such comments and conclusions, you should go drive a e46 M3 and then drive a G80 or G82. You will feel the "soul" that BMW enthusiast talk about. My F82 doesnt even have the soul my e46 M3 had, every generation after the e30/e36/e46 the "soul" started to slip away. I've driven many cars and the connection you have to the road is only present in "some" cars. The "soul" is not just power, its not just suspension, its many factors that come together. The Miata, MR2 and RX7 were and still are some of my fav Japanese cars with "soul"!
That is your opinion as I have owned a lot of 90's Japanese cars from Civic Si, del sol VTEC, MR2 Turbo, several DSM's, as well as older EVO, STI and I prefer modern BMW's over every single one. What you call "soul" with older Japanese cars I consider vibrations and rattles.
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      09-10-2021, 02:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
That is your opinion as I have owned a lot of 90's Japanese cars from Civic Si, del sol VTEC, MR2 Turbo, several DSM's, as well as older EVO, STI and I prefer modern BMW's over every single one. What you call "soul" with older Japanese cars I consider vibrations and rattles.
Vibrations and rattles are the essence of a BMW. You will find many "vibration" issues threads in every BMW forum/model, vibrations while breaking, vibrations at XXX speed, etc. Rattles? you say? Lets see how many threads we can find on door/speaker/mystery rattle!

If your NEW BMW doesnt have vibrations and rattles, just give it time!
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      09-10-2021, 02:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
7:35 is the actual time.

And whats impressive about an 1100 HP car running that time?
This. I was on pace for a 7:47 in my 365hp M2 with a manual and on Cup2s. Tesla was wearing supercar 3Rs and it has 3x the power.
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      09-10-2021, 02:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
M5 CS did its time on p zero corsa tires. The Tesla is on pilot sport 4s. tesla would easily beat the M5 if it were on the same sticky track rubber.
That one was on Supercar 3Rs. Don't ask me how I know, but it's a fact.
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      09-10-2021, 02:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
That one was on Supercar 3Rs. Don't ask me how I know, but it's a fact.
i take it you have some friends there who were able to check out the car in person ? i'll take your word for it.

although musk has made a tweet saying the car was completely unmodified and they are planning on running the ring again with "carbon ceramics, aero, and track tires", along with new track software. -- but the guy has been known to bend the truth quite a bit
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      09-10-2021, 04:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
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Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
I thought Tesla was supposed to smash all the N'Ring records…

Based on all the hype built up by Elon and his legion of TSLA fan-girls, this result is pretty subpar. Don't get me wrong, objectively it's an impressive result, however relative to the hype that was built around this car by its own supporters… it's not very impressive at all when you consider its power to weight ratio. But then again why would we expect a company with literally 0 racing heritage or even a reputation for driving dynamics to suddenly beat any records, let alone by a meaningful amount?
Riiiiiggght. LOL. Just say something is not impressive and make it the reason it is not. Good technique..
Well my point flew right over your head

Here you go: https://insideevs.com/news/487704/te...7-minute-ring/

It is impressive, just not so relative to the hype that Tesla and its fans have been building. The same fan base that paraded Randy Pobst in a literal Model S Plaid Race Car passing novice supercar owners at Laguna Seca as Tesla taking the scalps of those cars
Yeah. The same driver who thinks the Plaid was a great car to drive when he just won at Pikes Peak. No neither what you said nor your technique to diminish the achievements of a car you don't like did 'not' fly over my head. LOL. I basically called you out on it…not a big deal.
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      09-10-2021, 05:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
Yeah. The same driver who thinks the Plaid was a great car to drive when he just won at Pikes Peak. No neither what you said nor your technique to diminish the achievements of a car you don't like did 'not' fly over my head. LOL. I basically called you out on it…not a big deal.
For someone who claims they understood my point, you have yet to acknowledge it. But if "calling me out" gives you some sort of validation then I am happy for you
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      09-10-2021, 08:35 PM   #33
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I'm likely alone on this thought
7.30 for a heavy 4 door sedan is reasonably impressive, personally I have a huge vendetta against Tesla (mostly their goody two shoes owners), for a company pushing automation up our collective souls, why isn't the autopilot doing this, them being the champion of autopilot systems, why aren't they just having a computer pull off the laps.

I mean most of the unknown factors of other human motorists disappear on the race track...isn't it far more impressive if the plaid went around the Nurburgring with a computer at the wheel?
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      09-10-2021, 08:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
Yeah. The same driver who thinks the Plaid was a great car to drive when he just won at Pikes Peak. No neither what you said nor your technique to diminish the achievements of a car you don't like did 'not' fly over my head. LOL. I basically called you out on it…not a big deal.
For someone who claims they understood my point, you have yet to acknowledge it. But if "calling me out" gives you some sort of validation then I am happy for you
Gives me no pleasure. But, whatever…. Learn to appreciate when something is good and move on…you come off as being bitter that Tesla set a record.I am sure you drive a cool car. So be happy…
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      09-10-2021, 09:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
I'm likely alone on this thought
7.30 for a heavy 4 door sedan is reasonably impressive, personally I have a huge vendetta against Tesla (mostly their goody two shoes owners), for a company pushing automation up our collective souls, why isn't the autopilot doing this, them being the champion of autopilot systems, why aren't they just having a computer pull off the laps.

I mean most of the unknown factors of other human motorists disappear on the race track...isn't it far more impressive if the plaid went around the Nurburgring with a computer at the wheel?
I agree with your overall point. FWIW , they are just a car company that broke a record. Nothing more or less. I give Musk credit for creating a successful car company - against all odds. Almost no 'expert' thought he could pull it off. My 2 cents worth.
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      09-10-2021, 10:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I agree wit your overall point. FWIW , they are just a car company that broke a record. Nothing more or less. I give Musk credit for creating a successful car company - against all odds. Almost no 'expert' thought he could pull it off. My 2 cents worth.
same. as much as i don't like EVs taking over.... i have to give credit. I'm not gonna be one of those guys who keeps moving the yard stick when they accomplish something. "oh they are slow after 80mph, they can't complete 1 lap of a track without overheating, the range is so short, etc"
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      09-11-2021, 12:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
I mean most of the unknown factors of other human motorists disappear on the race track...isn't it far more impressive if the plaid went around the Nurburgring with a computer at the wheel?
I'm not sure that is too much of a challenge compared to true Level 5 operation. Seems quite doable but a waste of engineering man-hours for the moment. I am assuming you mean go around as fast as a top driver since it could probably already go around by itself with FSD beta.
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      09-11-2021, 02:28 AM   #38
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https://www.overtake.gg/news/1879-pe...ep-learning-ai

Already happening in games like gran turismo. Took the computer 73 hours to learn how to play and beat the top players in the world. Sometimes by a large margin.

Soon we'll see people quoting A.I. nurburgring times for cars... eliminating the driver variable.
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      09-11-2021, 10:03 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
The people I see driving the model 3 performance at local autocross events look to be having fun. So you are claiming that they are not?
How many runs do they do in a day in? Autocross seems doable as you are limited to short laps. I know the Tesla owners running Laguna Seca deplete their battery over 30% over 5-6 laps. Some do still see reduced power towards end of sessions. Realistically 3 short sessions and car needs charging. They usually don’t go out for late day sessions. I’m guessing new battery tech will be needed for EV to become a viable weekend track car.
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      09-11-2021, 10:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
How many runs do they do in a day in? Autocross seems doable as you are limited to short laps. I know the Tesla owners running Laguna Seca deplete their battery over 30% over 5-6 laps. Some do still see reduced power towards end of sessions. Realistically 3 short sessions and car needs charging. They usually don’t go out for late day sessions. I’m guessing new battery tech will be needed for EV to become a viable weekend track car.
8-12 runs is usually the min.

They've been known to plug into an outlet during events. AutoX has a lot of downtime while you are working the course, so you can theoretically keep charging for the entire time your string is not running.
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      09-11-2021, 10:33 AM   #41
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Whatever, people just drive what you like. 'Ring times, 0-60 are all for online ego-driven fanboys. Drive what makes you happy.

I don't care about seconds here and there, I care about how the car makes me "feel." And to date no EV provides the raw thrills that ICE equivalents do. I could care less if a Model 3 accelerates a second quicker than my Alfa, as I sure as hell know which car feels alive at any speed and handles like a go kart especially in these beautiful LA canyons. 3500 lbs, gears to shift, and engine noise. An EV can never deliver that engagement between a car and driver.

The Model S is commendable. Much like an Apple Watch it destroys everything from an objective technical standpoint, but at the same time is incredibly common and lacks the exquisite design and mechanical nature of a Rolex or Piguet time piece.
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