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      02-22-2021, 10:52 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Not to mention, how much of the badge is just splitting hairs at this point? From a hardware perspective, what does the RC-F actually have that this doesn't?

Same question applies for actual performance. Is this IS500 F Sport actually going to be outperformed by the RC F? It seems unlikely. I fact, I would not be surprised if this beats the RC F in many categories.
I think Savagegeese said the only F-parts it doesn't include are the seats and oil coolers. It should also be lighter than the RC-F at under 3900lbs.
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      02-22-2021, 10:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Lexus reliability and service/dealer experience is unbeatable. Add to the fact that it has great NA character of a big V8 in a class of turbo 4 and 6's and great handling and surprisingly great EPS steering this could be a great choice since it will likely cost less than an RC-F (< $67k) and hold its value well. Now please Lexus update the infotainment, a touchscreen was appreciated, but a full overhaul is needed.
YES! Lexus voice recognition is miserable compared to BMW. I refuse to try to do any voice commands on the Lexus because it is so infuriating. That said, if you use the step-by-step guided commands it does work, just really tedious to get to the result you want. I love the GPS navigation in the Lexus with the details of what's at each highway exit displayed on the map.
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      02-22-2021, 10:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dscabra View Post
YES! Lexus voice recognition is miserable compared to BMW. I refuse to try to do any voice commands on the Lexus because it is so infuriating. That said, if you use the step-by-step guided commands it does work, just really tedious to get to the result you want. I love the GPS navigation in the Lexus with the details of what's at each highway exit displayed on the map.
Agree, luckily it still has physical HVAC and Seat Heating controls unlike the LC and LS as well, that really helps out. The touchscreen should also be helpful with Carplay. Its just barely usable, luckily there are so many other positives for the car.
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      02-22-2021, 10:54 AM   #26
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Exclusive: Why Isn’t The IS 500 Called IS F?

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2021/02/...0-called-is-f/

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Why isn’t the IS 500 instead called “IS F”?

You want to know, and we did too, so we asked Lexus directly. The answer opens an entirely new chapter of Lexus performance while giving enthusiasts even more options within the lineup.

Lexus Enthusiast: Can you tell us a bit more about the hierarchy of F products now? We have F SPORT, F SPORT Performance Line, and F… Is this a three-tiered approach to performance where all-out performance cars will still be “F” at the top of the range? Or is F Sport Performance Line a replacement for F?

Lexus: Great question. The IS 500 will be the first model to debut the Lexus F SPORT Performance line. F SPORT Performance models will be positioned between current Lexus F SPORT models, like the IS 350 F SPORT, and F models, like the RC F.

While current F SPORT models are denoted by upgraded performance components honed at the track (e.g., sport tuned suspension, limited-slip differential, race-inspired styling), new F SPORT Performance models will be further upgraded with those components and a high output powertrain.

As the highest expression of power and performance, F will continue to receive our most innovative engineering and advanced driver-inspired technology.


So there we have it. The IS 500 F SPORT Performance ushers in a new, third dimension for Lexus performance vehicles above “F SPORT” and below “F.”
  • F SPORT: An option package on Lexus models with upgraded performance components such as sport tuned suspensions, limited-slip differentials and race inspired styling.
  • F SPORT Performance: Includes F SPORT upgraded performance components paired with a high output powertrain.
  • F: The highest expression of Lexus performance with the most innovative engineering and driver-inspired technology.

Lexus Enthusiast’s Take
Having this information makes it easier to understand what ingredients are missing to create an IS F: Exclusive F front and rear bumpers with side fender vents, Brembo brakes, driver-focused suspension enhancements, active weight reduction, unique interior trim, launch control and more.

The IS 500 F SPORT Performance delivers where it matters most: 161 more horsepower, 115 more lb-ft of torque, two more cylinders, and a curb weight under 3,900 pounds.

Looking at the numbers, it’s clear that Lexus has delivered a perfect blueprint for performance-oriented buyers to enjoy and enthusiasts to modify as they see fit — without the added cost of full F gear.

More Lexus performance vehicles is better, and a naturally aspirated, rear-wheel-drive, V8 IS is the vehicle that started it all 13 years ago. Is it possible that the IS 500 F SPORT Performance is set to do the same for future Lexus generations? We hope so.
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      02-22-2021, 10:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Not necessarily. I'm also a Toyota/Lexus fan when it comes to DD's, but the performance gap compared to your M550i would be HUGE. I found that aspect of the LC500 a little underwhelming if I'm honest, it's gorgeous but no faster than my E92 M3. At that price point, I'd want that, but I do understand that seeing an NAV8 in this day and age is special.

I wonder how they'll price this IS500. If it's in the 50s, that might be one hell of a bargain for what you're getting.
I'd think $57-60k starting, top out at $70k to $75k. It'll come well equipped as is, with CF optional bits like the roof, spoiler, etc (like the LC500). Lexus tends not to nickel and dime you for premium options.
Maybe a levinson audio option.
I think it'll undercut the m3 by $10-15k.

Smart if they price it this way. Fills that middle price point between $60k and $75k.


For reference a RC350 F sport is $50k starting; $58k w/ handling pack, and upgraded options

RCF is $67k starting $78k with extras

IS350 F sport is $42k starting, add the handling pack, audio upgrade, headlight upgrade, it'll top out at $55k.
Is500 will prob start at $15k more than IS350 and it comes with handling pack, LSD. So very competitively priced.
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      02-22-2021, 11:01 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus Enthusiast
Lexus Enthusiast’s Take
Having this information makes it easier to understand what ingredients are missing to create an IS F: Exclusive F front and rear bumpers with side fender vents, Brembo brakes, driver-focused suspension enhancements, active weight reduction, unique interior trim, launch control and more.
Thanks for posting that.

Some of that, like the brakes and suspension, obviously has actual tangible value. But the weight reduction is a bit funny given how much the RC F weighs.
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      02-22-2021, 11:17 AM   #29
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Who wants to bet that it is still slower than an M340i?
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      02-22-2021, 11:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmmmM2 View Post
Who wants to bet that it is still slower than an M340i?
An M340i with xDrive? Probably. But this is likely to give a RWD M340i a run for its money.

If you look at BMW's official acceleration times for the M340i xDrive and M3 with RWD, they, too, are closer than one might expect.
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      02-22-2021, 11:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by MmmmmM2 View Post
Who wants to bet that it is still slower than an M340i?
I'll take a NA V8 IS500 over the m340i. I could care less if it's slower.

Both are plenty fast, and I think this looks much better.
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      02-22-2021, 11:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmmmM2 View Post
Who wants to bet that it is still slower than an M340i?
RWD M340 to RWD IS500 will be extremely close. Since they are marketing it as a mid tier vehicle like the M340 it's definitely competitive again. It's a good effort on their part and like other said lexus is making their comeback to the performance market
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      02-22-2021, 11:37 AM   #33
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      02-22-2021, 11:49 AM   #34
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Damn I think I found my next car! But yeah need the price to decide. If they price it against the M340i I’m all in on the IS500. If they price it against the M3 then I’ll have to think hard about that.
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      02-22-2021, 11:57 AM   #35
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      02-22-2021, 12:14 PM   #36
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It's really too bad they didn't upgrade the transmission. I'm not seeing how this car is all that different from the 1st gen IS-F.
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      02-22-2021, 12:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dscabra View Post
YES! Lexus voice recognition is miserable compared to BMW. I refuse to try to do any voice commands on the Lexus because it is so infuriating. That said, if you use the step-by-step guided commands it does work, just really tedious to get to the result you want. I love the GPS navigation in the Lexus with the details of what's at each highway exit displayed on the map.
Agree, luckily it still has physical HVAC and Seat Heating controls unlike the LC and LS as well, that really helps out. The touchscreen should also be helpful with Carplay. Its just barely usable, luckily there are so many other positives for the car.
I second this.

I do NOT like this tablet trend taking over interior design.

I like physical buttons for climate, audio, basic vehicle operation and the redundancy of having the same controls through the infotainment system. Rather have both with cumbersome infotainment than a full touchscreen tablet system.
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      02-22-2021, 12:43 PM   #38
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Very pleasantly surprised! After Mercedes butchered the next C"""63""" I thought there was no way Lexus of all brands would put out a new compact V8 sedan. I'm holding off on my Mustang purchase until this comes out now.
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      02-22-2021, 12:46 PM   #39
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Very pleasantly surprised! After Mercedes butchered the next C"""63""" I thought there was no way Lexus of all brands would put out a new compact V8 sedan. I'm holding off on my Mustang purchase until this comes out now.
Mostly because Lexus doesn't sell as much in Europe where regulations are strict. In Germany they still sell the old IS, and only in hybrid form, this "new" (refresh) isn't sold in some European countries at all.
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      02-22-2021, 01:35 PM   #40
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This may foreshadow the "LS-F" and "LC-F". Let me explain. I recall reading a post somewhere awhile back that said a full blown F model for those two was getting watered down. Like Lexus was just going to drop the TT V8 into the LS and LC and pretty much call it a day. Kind of like what we see with this IS500 F Sport. IIRC, the reasons were R&D time and cost passed down to the consumers.
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      02-22-2021, 01:43 PM   #41
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While I see the value of having an NA V8, the engine is still ancient. I don't know...I guess I really soured on Lexus after having a 17 Lexus IS350 F Sport. That car had no soul.
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      02-22-2021, 01:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmmmM2 View Post
While I see the value of having an NA V8, the engine is still ancient. I don't know...I guess I really soured on Lexus after having a 17 Lexus IS350 F Sport. That car had no soul.
Ancient just means reliable.

It's a great engine. I think you have to drive one of the F cars to appreciate it, and the cars equipped with this V8 have plenty of soul.

Also it's a 5 liter V8 that can push close to 500 horses. Who cares if it's "ancient".
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      02-22-2021, 02:14 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Ancient just means reliable.

It's a great engine. I think you have to drive one of the F cars that have it to appreciate it.
The fact that this car even exists in 2021 is an accomplishment. I was not in the financial position to jump on the original IS F so I'm very excited that I'll have the opportunity this time around.

Finally something different in this segment and for once, I think Lexus knows exactly what they're doing here. A full on F model to compete with M3 and C63 would probably cost too much, probably not perform as well if the RC-F is any indication, and people wouldn't be able to justify it over the Germans. But as an S4/340 competitor, this thing speaks to me. And I'm not really an N/A V8 or Lexus fan in particular.
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      02-22-2021, 02:31 PM   #44
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