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      02-01-2021, 06:21 PM   #1
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Cadillac CT4 and CT5 Blackwing


2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Revealed With Twin-Turbo V6 And A Manual
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
We've been waiting for Cadillac to debut its new performance-oriented Blackwing models for some time – but now they’re officially here. Alongside the larger CT5-V Blackwing, today the company has revealed the hot new Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing sedan. With 472 horsepower (351 kilowatts) from a twin-turbo V6, a six-speed manual gearbox, and properly sporty looks, Cadillac hopes the CT4-V Blackwing will be able to take on the German alternatives.

The Blackwing ditches the base CT4-V's turbo-four for a twin-turbocharged 3.6-liter V6 instead. That’s the same engine (without the two turbos) found on larger GM vehicles like the Chevrolet Blazer and Cadillac XT6. But with new titanium connecting rods, a revised crankshaft, and a few other minor tweaks, this setup helps the Blackwing model achieve an impressive 472 hp and 445 pound-feet (602 newton-meters). All that extra oomph pairs with either a six-speed manual transmission or a 10-speed automatic, with power sent to the rear wheels.

That allows the CT4-V to hit 60 miles per hour in 3.8 seconds with the automatic transmission, on to an impressive top speed of 189 miles per hour (304 kilometers per hour). The manual transmission will likely make this car slightly slower to 60, but probably not by much. And like the larger CT5-V Blackwing, the CT4-V gets exclusive Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires measuring in at 255/35R18 up front and 275/35R18 in the rear. That new rubber wraps around a trim-exclusive set of 18-inch wheels and optional carbon ceramic brakes.

The CT4-V also adopts the latest iteration of GM's highly lauded Magnetic Ride Control. Version 4.0 improves the front and rear suspension setup by adding hollow stabilizer bars and higher-rate bushings, which makes the CT4-V Blackwing more capable when in Sport or Track driving modes, but comfortable on the road in the standard Tour driving mode. Both the CT4-V and CT5-V Blackwing models also get an electronic limited-slip rear differential.

Visually, not much differentiates the Blackwing model from the traditional CT4-V. This version does get more aggressive carbon fiber elements on the front end, a larger grille with pronounced side vents, as well as a noticeable carbon fiber spoiler out back. Inside, new carbon fiber elements adorn the center console, dash, and door panels, with a 3D-printed shifter positioned dead center. That’s very much in line with what Cadillac has planned for the likewise-hotter CT5-V Blackwing.

Compared to German alternatives like the Audi RS3 and the Mercedes-AMG CLA 45, the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing is the quickest and most powerful option. The RS3 pumps out 394 hp (294 kW) and takes 3.9 seconds to hit 60, while the CLA 45 produces 382 hp (284 kW) and takes 4.0 seconds to 60. Not only that, but the Cadillac is well-priced comparatively.

The Cadillac CT4-V starts $59,990 before options, which makes it only a few thousand dollars more expensive than the RS3 ($56,200) and CLA 45 ($54,800). It's unclear if the CT4 will get some of the same options as the larger CT5-V Blackwing should, like Super Cruise or any trim-specific paint options or features, but buyers looking to snag one of the first 250 versions of the CT4-V Blackwing can pre-order now by placing a $1,000 deposit.
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The 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Is The Most Powerful Cadillac Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
The Cadillac CT5-V is a good car, but it isn't the proper CTS-V successor that we had hoped for. It's way down on power, with a mere 360 horsepower (269 kilowatts) compared to its predecessor's 640 (477 kW), and takes 4.8 seconds to hit 60 versus the CTS-V's sub-four-second time. But today the brand is debuting a car that feels like a proper follow-up to the CTS we all knew and loved: This the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing.

The company has been teasing the CT5-V Blackwing for quite some time – including yesterday at the Rolex 24 At Daytona alongside the smaller CT4-V Blackwing, smaller CT4-V Blackwing. But this is the first time we get to see the hotter CT5-V in detail, and with actual performance stats to boot. Borrowing the supercharged 6.2-liter V8 from the CTS-V – albeit with significant upgrades – the CT5-V Blackwing pumps out an absurd 668 horses (498 kW) and 659 pound-feet (893 newton-meters). That allows it to hit 60 in just 3.7 seconds and continue on to a top speed of around 200 miles per hour (322 kilometers per hour).

Although the CT5-V Blackwing uses the same supercharged V8 as its predecessor, the modifications are plentiful. The CT5 has a larger supercharger (1.7 liters, to be exact), new pulleys, aluminum cylinder heads, titanium intake valves, and 46-percent better airflow. And for the pursuits, there is a manual transmission. A Tremec six-speed manual comes standard on the CT5-V Blackwing (as well as the CT4-V Blackwing), with features like no-lift shift and rev-matching. The optional gearbox is a 10-speed automatic that Cadillac says shifts faster than competitors' dual-clutch transmissions. Notably, the 3.7-second sprint to 60 happens with the autobox, while the manual will be a touch slower off the line.

Underneath, the CT5-V Blackwing adopts GM's fourth-generation Magnetic Ride Control system. Already one of our favorite setups, the latest version includes upgrades to the front and rear suspension systems (hollow stabilizer bars, higher-rate bushings, etc.), improving both track handling and on-road comfort. And in both models, power travels to the rear wheels exclusively.

The CT5-V Blackwing gets standard Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires designed exclusively for this model, measuring at 275/35R19 in the front and 305/30R19 in the rear. That super-sticky rubber wraps around Blackwing-exclusive forged 19-inch wheels, and those wheels hide a set of optional carbon-ceramic brakes pads that help shed an extra 53 pounds (24 kilograms) versus the standard steel brakes.

But most of the changes to the Blackwing model are mechanical; the hotter CT5-V only gets a slightly different front bumper with larger air intakes and black accents, a few carbon fiber aero pieces for additional downforce, and a blacked-out grille. The rear end of the Blackwing model also dons matching carbon fiber accents like a new spoiler and diffuser. The interior of the CT5-V Blackwing adopts a similarly subtle makeover, with carbon fiber accents on the center console, steering wheel, and door panels and a nifty 3D-printed shifter at the driver's disposal.

In terms of technology, the CT5-V Blackwing gets a 12.0-inch digital instrument cluster similar to what you'll find in the C8 Corvette. The large display offers basic readouts for things like tire pressure, G forces, and boost, with specific displays for the car's three drive modes – Tour, Sport, and Track. There's also a customizable launch control setting embedded within the display, as well as a Performance Traction Management system.

All that performance will cost you $84,990 for the base Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing before options. Reports suggest that we could see Super Cruise on the CT5-V Blackwing – although, Cadillac has yet to confirm – and we know that the CT5-V will come in two trim-exclusive colors at launch, Blaze Orange Metallic and Electric Blue. Buyers interested in taking home a CT5-V Blackwing can put down a $1,000 pre-order starting today.
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Official Cadillac Press Release
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac
CT5-V Blackwing: 6.2L Supercharged V8 - 668 hp, 659 lb-ft of torque
-GM-estimated top track speed: over 200 mph
-GM-estimated 0-60 mph: 3.7 seconds (automatic transmission)
-Most powerful Cadillac ever
-Air intake airflow is improved by 46 percent vs. the CTS-V
-Compact, high-output 1.7L four-lobe Eaton supercharger with small-diameter rotors that enable boost to be generated earlier in the rpm band for instantaneous response
-Rotocast A356T6 aluminum cylinder heads are stronger and handle heat better than conventional aluminum-alloy heads
-Lightweight titanium intake valves
-Track-capable wet-sump oiling and vent system with external oil separator and drainback

CT4-V Blackwing: 3.6L Twin-Turbo V6 - 472 hp, 445 lb-ft of torque
-GM-estimated top speed: 189 mph
-GM-estimated 0-60 mph: 3.8 seconds (automatic transmission)
-Most powerful and fastest Cadillac in the subcompact class
-Air intake restriction is improved by 39 percent vs. the ATS-V
-Turbocharger compressors matched for peak efficiency at peak power for optimal track performance
-Titanium connecting rods (manual transmission only) and revised crankshaft counterweights reduce main/rod bearing reciprocating loads
-Re-targeted piston oil squirters, which direct engine oil at the bottoms of the pistons, for improved temperature control
-The manifold-integrated water-to-air charge cooling system contributes to more immediate torque response
-Airflow routing volume is reduced by 60 percent when compared to a conventional design that features a remotely mounted heat exchanger

Available on the CT5-V Blackwing, the lightweight carbon-ceramic brake package significantly improves heat management, as well as greater resistance to wear under extreme conditions on the racetrack, while also reducing unsprung mass and rotating mass:
53-pound (24 kg) reduction in unsprung weight
62-pound (28 kg) reduction in rotating mass

Manual transmission is standard
Rare for sport sedans today, a six-speed TREMEC manual transmission is standard on both vehicles. It has been optimized for each V-Series Blackwing vehicle to provide an engaging experience on the track or on the road. Details include:

-LuK twin-disc clutch for high torque capacity and great pedal feel
-Active Rev Matching accessible via a console mounted toggle switch to automatically adjust engine speed to match anticipated downshifts
-No-Lift Shift allowing the driver to shift gears without letting off the gas pedal. In the case of the CT4-V Blackwing, it allows the turbos to remain spooled, resulting in faster lap times
-Transmission and rear differential cooling – the manual and automatic transmissions use the same track-performance cooling system for greater track performance
-Clutch and brake pedals positioned for optimal driver ergonomics
-A physical barrier stop for the clutch pedal rather than a hydraulic master cylinder stop provides greater driver feedback during clutch operation
-A shorter shifter ratio than previous generations for more precise shifts

Both V-Series Blackwing models also feature an enhanced Electronic Limited Slip Rear Differential. It weighs less and has been optimized for each driving mode and each Performance Traction Management setting.

Highlighted features:
-More control of the rear differential compared to traditional open and mechanical limited-slip differentials
-Enhances road grip by automatically allocating torque to the rear wheel with the most traction during hard cornering — with the capability of sending up to 1,475 lb-ft (2,000 Nm) of locking torque across the axle
-High-performance differential cooler
-An aluminum housing replacing the previous generation cast iron housing, reducing mass by more than 22 pounds (10 kg)
-Exclusive integrated heat exchanger for enhanced cooling

MR 4.0 highlights:
-Immense performance envelope that gave Cadillac engineers the freedom to optimize everyday driving and aggressive track performance
-New accelerometers and an inertial measurement unit that transmit and process changes in road conditions four times faster than the previous generation system
-Secondary temperature maps that enable engineers to compensate for changes in damper fluid temperature for more consistent performance, even during performance driving
-Inertial measurement unit that provides more precise measurements of body motion relative to the wheel for more accurate readings under heavy braking, hard cornering and other driving conditions
-Improved magnetic flux control that creates a more consistent and accurate transition between rebound and compression
-Improvements to transient body control that allow the vehicle to remain more level while transitioning between corners

All-day performance, on and off the track
The CT5-V Blackwing and CT4-V Blackwing build on Cadillac’s racing heritage and were developed to be track-capable straight from the factory. That includes an intensive validation program to ensure consistent performance during the most challenging track conditions.

Validation for both models included:
-Twenty-four-hour continuous track testing with the available automatic transmission, available carbon fiber aero package, aluminum wheels and available carbon ceramic brake package
-Twelve-hour continuous track testing with the standard manual transmission, available carbon fiber aero package, aluminum wheels and available carbon ceramic brake package
-Functional aerodynamics, including an available carbon fiber aero package, contribute to the V-Series Blackwing models’ track prowess to support a variety of cooling needs for the cars’ respective engines, transmissions, axles and other supporting systems.

Additionally, MICHELIN® Pilot Sport 4S tires developed exclusively for the V-Series Blackwing models contribute to their balance of track capability and road comfort. Highlights include:
-Unique, multiple-compound tread composition:
-Contact patch composed of three unique tread rubber compounds
-Racing “R compound” used for the majority of the tread
-Compounds optimized for wet traction, enhanced street and track durability, as well as rolling resistance
-The mold shape of the tire has been specifically engineered for Blackwing models to optimize contact with the road

Tire sizes:
-CT5-V Blackwing tire size: 275/35ZR19 (front) and 305/30ZR19 (rear)
-CT4-V Blackwing tire size: 255/35ZR18 (front) and 275/35ZR18 (rear)

Both V-Series Blackwing vehicles feature standard forged aluminum alloy wheels with staggered widths, front to rear. These forged wheels are stronger and lighter than conventional cast aluminum.

Wheel sizes:
-CT5-V Blackwing: Front – 19 x 10 inches / Rear – 19 x 11 inches
-CT4-V Blackwing: Front – 18 x 9 inches / Rear – 18 x 9.5 inches
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      02-01-2021, 06:47 PM   #2
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What a beast!

Road and Track
2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Has More Power Than an M5 and a 6-Speed Manual
"Cadillac envisions the CT5-V Blackwing as a BMW M3 fighter, but given the fact that it has 165 more hp than the new M3 Competition, it sounds like this Blackwing could take the fight all the way to the M5, which only musters 627 hp in its most powerful CS guise."


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...s-photos-msrp/
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      02-01-2021, 07:21 PM   #3
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Man oh Man, I'm loving the CT4-V! Not only from a visual perspective, but performance perspective as well. The twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 (472 hp) has plenty of power for me. Also love the fact that it comes with a manual transmission.

And then there is the CT5-V....an absolute beast of a car! Hard to turn your back on a vehicle making 668 horses through a super charged V8 that is ALSO mounted to a MANUAL gearbox!!

Can't go wrong with either vehicle, but for me it would be the CT4-V. And on a final note, the grille flows very well with the vehicle! Wish I could say the about the G8x. :
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      02-01-2021, 07:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GERMAN M3 View Post
Man oh Man, I'm loving the CT4-V! Not only from a visual perspective, but performance perspective as well. The twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 (472 hp) has plenty of power for me. Also love the fact that it comes with a manual transmission.

And then there is the CT5-V....an absolute beast of a car! Hard to turn your back on a vehicle making 668 horses through a super charged V8 that is ALSO mounted to a MANUAL gearbox!!

Can't go wrong with either vehicle, but for me it would be the CT4-V. And on a final note, the grille flows very well with the vehicle! Wish I could say the about the G8x. :
Agree both look great, and I think that the CT4-V will likely be a good value starting right under $60k.

And that commercial was excellent. That is how you introduce a car for enthusiasts. No need for loud music and weird people screaming in their cars like the M3/4 commercial.

"Lets get back to driving our cars and not the other way around"
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      02-01-2021, 07:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Agree both look great, and I think that the CT4-V will likely be a good value starting right under $60k.

And that commercial was excellent. That is how you introduce a car for enthusiasts. No need for loud music and weird people screaming in their cars like the M3/4 commercial.

"Lets get back to driving our cars and not the other way around"
Yes Sir! That commercial was absolutely fantastic! “ONE gear at a time, One shift at a time” Well done Cadillac, Well done!
Obviously it was geared towards the driving enthusiast.

Makes me wonder what BMW will be saying after they see it?
Let me guess....Verdammt, das wahr eine grossartiger Werbung!
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      02-01-2021, 08:27 PM   #6
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Hm....Cadillac could definitely go in my garage.
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      02-01-2021, 08:59 PM   #7
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“Cadillac promises a 3.7-second zero-to-60-mph time with the available and quick-shifting 10-speed automatic”

That’s slower than the slowest car in my garage, my BMW SUV
But seriously, who needs all this crazy power in a big sedan without a proper performance transmission and AWD? This thing should be running 2.8 sec 0-60.

Who the hell needs a manual transmission on this 668 hp 4100 lb supercharged four door behemoth? Track car you say? Just take the Shelby GT500 or the Camaro ZL1.

Basically, the new CT5-V Blackwing is a car that every enthusiast will like but nobody will buy. Again...
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      02-01-2021, 09:34 PM   #8
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Those new Cadillacs do nothing for me visually, they look bloated, generic and rental-like, even with all the new "go fast" trinkets. Maybe I just cannot shake-off GM's corporate image.

TBH: I prefer the looks of a new M3, to me it resembles a more visceral and mechanical version of Alfa Giulia, and I always wanted an Alfa, but you cannot get one with a manual box.

Still, I applaud GM for putting out a manual box in cars this size, and I wish them success. Looks are subjective, but as long as the cars have solid mechanical underpinnings, they should be well received by all the remaining enthusiasts out there.
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      02-01-2021, 09:38 PM   #9
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Love the look of these. Interesting how the manual ct4 comes with titanium rods and the auto doesn't.
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      02-01-2021, 09:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Those new Cadillacs do nothing for me visually, they look bloated, generic and rental-like, even with all the new "go fast" trinkets. Maybe I just cannot shake-off GM's corporate image.

TBH: I prefer the looks of a new M3, to me it resembles a more visceral and mechanical version of Alfa Giulia, and I always wanted an Alfa, but you cannot get one with a manual box.

Still, I applaud GM for putting out a manual box in cars this size, and I wish them success. Looks are subjective, but as long as the cars have solid mechanical underpinnings, they should be well received by all the remaining enthusiasts out there.
And that generic corporate GM interior kills it completely.
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      02-01-2021, 10:28 PM   #11
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IF I was looking for a sedan, these two would be on my list to check out.

Not sure about the rear decklid & spoiler, but overall, I'm pleasantly surprised.

And a MT?

Good on you, Cadillac!

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      02-01-2021, 10:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otay View Post
What a beast!

Road and Track
2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Has More Power Than an M5 and a 6-Speed Manual
"Cadillac envisions the CT5-V Blackwing as a BMW M3 fighter, but given the fact that it has 165 more hp than the new M3 Competition, it sounds like this Blackwing could take the fight all the way to the M5, which only musters 627 hp in its most powerful CS guise."


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...s-photos-msrp/
I call BS, because it's known that the BMW will dyno close to what is claimed, while GM is SAE at the crankshaft. Road and Track should know this by know too, sloppy reporting.
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      02-01-2021, 10:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
And that generic corporate GM interior kills it completely.
I'm not sure that people have actually experienced it, they just go based on a 10, 15 or 20 year old car. The last CTS-V generation was pretty up there in terms of interior trim, definitely comparable to BMW 5. Don't tell me that there's no plastic in the BMW.
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      02-01-2021, 10:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
“Cadillac promises a 3.7-second zero-to-60-mph time with the available and quick-shifting 10-speed automatic”

That’s slower than the slowest car in my garage, my BMW SUV
But seriously, who needs all this crazy power in a big sedan without a proper performance transmission and AWD? This thing should be running 2.8 sec 0-60.

Who the hell needs a manual transmission on this 668 hp 4100 lb supercharged four door behemoth? Track car you say? Just take the Shelby GT500 or the Camaro ZL1.

Basically, the new CT5-V Blackwing is a car that every enthusiast will like but nobody will buy. Again...
Because these cars are for more than just going in a straight line at the stoplight? Sounds like you need an EV, that would be the fastest for you. GM has been dialing chassis dynamics for a while, better than almost everyone else, as far as handling. If you don't value handling, cornering, etc., then yes, you should definitely look elsewhere, like to an EV.
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      02-01-2021, 10:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Because these cars are for more than just going in a straight line at the stoplight? Sounds like you need an EV, that would be the fastest for you. GM has been dialing chassis dynamics for a while, better than almost everyone else, as far as handling. If you don't value handling, cornering, etc., then yes, you should definitely look elsewhere, like to an EV.
Don't be ridiculous, James. 600+ hp performance cars need to be quick, dude, that's how it is. If you indeed value cornering and handling so much, why would you even look at this long wheelbase 4100+ lbs four door sedan? Get an M2, or get a Shelby GT, or get a Camaro ZL1. Or Supra. Or maybe even a Miata.
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      02-01-2021, 11:11 PM   #16
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The CT4 definitely has me on the looks over the G80.
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      02-01-2021, 11:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
Don't be ridiculous, James. 600+ hp performance cars need to be quick, dude, that's how it is. If you indeed value cornering and handling so much, why would you even look at this long wheelbase 4100+ lbs four door sedan? Get an M2, or get a Shelby GT, or get a Camaro ZL1. Or Supra. Or maybe even a Miata.
Are you talking about quick 0-60 and quarter mile, because that's where AWD launches save some significant time. Or are you talking from a roll, or at 60mph?

For best handling, RWD still reigns king. AWD is great for acceleration between points.

The reason you get one of these is you want to have your cake and eat it too, the ability to take people (people with legs that is) places, rather than just one other person.

My "camaro" is not about the fastest straight line. It's slower than the regular SS in a straight line...but it's faster around a track and it handles significantly better. That's why I bought it. If you don't get that, then no, you probably won't get this either. These aren't just about going as fast as possible in a straight line, although they do that pretty well. They tend to deliver a more rounded package.
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      02-02-2021, 01:06 AM   #18
Vivek.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
“Cadillac promises a 3.7-second zero-to-60-mph time with the available and quick-shifting 10-speed automatic”

That’s slower than the slowest car in my garage, my BMW SUV
But seriously, who needs all this crazy power in a big sedan without a proper performance transmission and AWD? This thing should be running 2.8 sec 0-60.

Who the hell needs a manual transmission on this 668 hp 4100 lb supercharged four door behemoth? Track car you say? Just take the Shelby GT500 or the Camaro ZL1.

Basically, the new CT5-V Blackwing is a car that every enthusiast will like but nobody will buy. Again...
You are definitely the only one here saying that 3.7s to 60 is slow, and somehow bitching about the manual transmission offering. The 6MT is a perfectly acceptable 'performance transmission' and let's be honest it's a total pipe dream to put a DCT in a car like this. Your x3 has an automatic anyways, and tops the 60 sprint (a meaningless metric, fwiw) largely because of AWD, which is less fun to drive.

I'm not GM fan either, just giving credit where it's due.
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      02-02-2021, 01:34 AM   #19
AlexFL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
You are definitely the only one here saying that 3.7s to 60 is slow, and somehow bitching about the manual transmission offering. The 6MT is a perfectly acceptable 'performance transmission' and let's be honest it's a total pipe dream to put a DCT in a car like this. Your x3 has an automatic anyways, and tops the 60 sprint (a meaningless metric, fwiw) largely because of AWD, which is less fun to drive.

I'm not GM fan either, just giving credit where it's due.
I do give them credit. Like I said, all the internet enthusiasts will like this car but no one will actually buy it. GM seems to know it and plans to make a very limited number of those. There is just a very small number of people needing a RWD, manual transmission four dour sedan on Sport Cup tires - this is the undeniable truth. Maybe JamesNoBrakes or jstein55 will buy one, I don’t know, but very likely they won’t. If anyone will ever need something in this direction, will likely opt for one of the well-rounded German competitors which can btw also be driven in pure RWD mode. So, yes, bravo to GM to even consider making such a car. A moral victory right there.

Last edited by AlexFL; 02-02-2021 at 02:08 AM..
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      02-02-2021, 02:32 AM   #20
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Highly f*cking impressed after reading press release. You can really tell they had some true enthusiasts developing these cars. I have absolutely zero interest in the new ugly pig nose M3. So the CT4 Blackwing is definitely on the list, especially at $60k. The seats look amazing. $85k for the specs of the CT5 Blackwing is crazy. RWD and manual, yes please.
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      02-02-2021, 02:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
You are definitely the only one here saying that 3.7s to 60 is slow, and somehow bitching about the manual transmission offering. The 6MT is a perfectly acceptable 'performance transmission' and let's be honest it's a total pipe dream to put a DCT in a car like this. Your x3 has an automatic anyways, and tops the 60 sprint (a meaningless metric, fwiw) largely because of AWD, which is less fun to drive.

I'm not GM fan either, just giving credit where it's due.
BMW has fully ditched DCT anyways and don’t even offer a manual in the M5.

Porsche is the only mainstream brand that is still pushing DCT...besides exotics like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc.

GM is actually building cars like BMW use too. BMW’s were never the most powerful or fastest in a straight line. They use build pure drivers cars.

Last edited by hellrotm; 02-02-2021 at 02:48 AM..
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      02-02-2021, 02:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
why would you even look at this long wheelbase 4100+ lbs four door sedan? Get an M2, or get a Shelby GT, or get a Camaro ZL1. Or Supra. Or maybe even a Miata.
Someone who has a family to haul around. There are always M5’s at the BMWCCA track events I attend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
There is just a very small number of people needing a RWD, manual transmission four dour sedan on Sport Cup tires - this is the undeniable truth.
Both ride on a bespoke PS4, not full Sport Cup tires.
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