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      03-15-2014, 05:32 PM   #45
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      03-15-2014, 05:49 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Perhaps this is the rumored end of the RWD 1 and 2 series cars. It also does not leave room for a small RWD 2 seat sports car.
The feeling among UK BMW enthusiasts after the 2AT unveiling was exactly this.

The future of BMW is no rwd in anything smaller than the 3/4 Series, after production ends of the current F2* cars.

I'll be keeping my 135i as long as practically possible and likely replace it with a Jag.
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      03-15-2014, 06:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
The i8.
:

If that is the enthusiast/bone for the core audience car, then they clearly do not know their audience.

No I firmly believe the i8 was a technical exercise. No the 1series was the enthusiasts bone, and they canned it before they even really tried to market it properly. It just didn't do as well as the beloved 3 series. It's all about money. Now they are pushing the 2 series, which they feel being closer to the 3 series is worth trying to sell.

Cant tell you how many dealerships I called that didnt even know what the 1 series was when I was shopping. Luckily my local guys did and I had a test drive in a DCT model to convince myself.

What does that mean? Well, when a dealership doesn't even know about a whole car, it means ultimately BMW didn't care to make sure they knew about it. It was expected to be a failure off the bat.
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      03-15-2014, 06:17 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
:

If that is the enthusiast/bone for the core audience car, then they clearly do not know their audience.
Maybe the audience is changing, and BMW is just a few years ahead of anything else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
No I firmly believe the i8 was a technical exercise. No the 1series was the enthusiasts bone, and they canned it before they even really tried to market it properly. It just didn't do as well as the beloved 3 series. It's all about money. Now they are pushing the 2 series, which they feel being closer to the 3 series is worth trying to sell.

Cant tell you how many dealerships I called that didnt even know what the 1 series was when I was shopping. Luckily my local guys did and I had a test drive in a DCT model to convince myself.

What does that mean? Well, when a dealership doesn't even know about a whole car, it means ultimately BMW didn't care to make sure they knew about it. It was expected to be a failure off the bat.
4 years ago, I drove a 2010 6MT 135i that belonged to a relative. It was the first time I drove a performance-oriented BMW. I fell in love with that car, but ultimately ended up in an M3, two years after that incredible driving experience. I only tell you that to let you know how much I appreciate your car, and that it gets my heart racing like few other other things. However, times are changing. I suspect the i8 and subsequent variants will ultimately be able to way more wicked/fun things than "traditional" BMWs that we know and love today.
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      03-15-2014, 06:23 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMvy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
A shared platform doesn't have to spell compromise.
Yes it does, almost by definition. As an engineer I feel this way, but I'd love to be wrong.
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      03-15-2014, 06:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Maybe the audience is changing, and BMW is just a few years ahead of anything else?
...
However, times are changing. I suspect the i8 and subsequent variants will ultimately be able to way more wicked/fun things than "traditional" BMWs that we know and love today.
Fair. We'll see where they end up. Honestly what I find more shocking is that BMW is going to build FWD cars. This is all considering until recently BMW considered FWD to be satan.

Rapid, broad scope, sweeping design philosophy changes. This is definitely not the same company anymore.
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      03-15-2014, 06:38 PM   #51
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I feel weird every time I read about FWD BMW, and now every other RWD is based on the same platform??
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      03-15-2014, 06:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Pentium View Post
I feel weird every time I read about FWD BMW, and now every other RWD is based on the same platform??
Maybe this is the Toyota Influence?
"Oh What A Feeling!"

*and Toyota is bringing more "exciting" (read RWD) cars to their range. And Lexus is coming on strong with it's RWD/AWD models.
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      03-15-2014, 06:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Double Bubble
Umm, the purpose of doing business is to make PROFIT.
You cannot argue with that.

Also,
More money = more research and development therefore better cars and more choices.
More money means more money for CEO and big shareholders. The reason they are doing this is to spend less on research and development. The result cars will be meh. The only chance for a car to be good with such architecture, is to be the model the base is designed for. For example, a 5er is in the middle so they can design the frame for it and then shrink/grow it for 3er and 7er. Or this can be the smaller car like 3er and from there add for 5 and 7 series. Either way there will be compromises that we will not like.
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      03-15-2014, 07:17 PM   #54
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This is going to be an interesting transition period for BMW. The 2014 C-Class is likely going to dictate or largely influence what BMW is going to do for the GXX chassis BMW's. Everybody's main gripe is that BMW has become less dynamic, well if the W205 C-Class outsells the 3-Series by a large margin, sorry, but BMW's core business of building sport sedans doesn't work in today's environment where people want to see, feel and touch $40k.
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      03-15-2014, 07:27 PM   #55
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I think that it all depends on the extent of the commonality. A common chassis does not necessarily mean the same type of suspension, which means variations on driving characteristics and capabilities. With today's computerization, what was true awhile ago, does not mean it is true today - small tweaks can make a huge difference, and using CFRP thrown in, you can extend things and customize the strength, stiffness, and other characteristics you need...it really is a game changer, and BMW is gearing itself up to be a leader in this.

IOW, many of the generalities of even a year or two ago, may no longer apply.

Wait and see...obsessing over it or bashing it is all premature. Give them some credit. Wait for the end result, then decide. Preconceived notions are notoriously dangerous and often inaccurate. Only time will tell.
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      03-15-2014, 07:37 PM   #56
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For those who want to switch over to Porsche: the Macan shares a platform with the Tiguan and Q5; the Cayenne shares a platform with the Touareg and Q7.

I am fine with platform sharing, say, if the 1, 2, 3, 4, X1, X3, X4 had one chassis and the 5, 6, 7, X5, X6 had another. But having ONE complete chassis from the 116d to the 760Li is kind of ridiculous. One reason why the F10 5 series was criticized for being numb and isolated is because it was too similar to the F01 7 series.
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      03-15-2014, 07:59 PM   #57
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The Architecture used for the next generation BMW 3er , 5er , ,7er , X models and the Rolls-Royce Ghost is modular , the Architecture is the central piece and then depending on which model the remaining sections are modular and then applied to distinguish each model whether in SAV or extended wheelbase models.

Its an intelligent approach to a shared architecture. It is in fact similar to what is used in the current 5er , 6er , 7er , X5 etc and that is why we have extended model variation in the BMW 5er Gran Turismo , BMW 6er Gran Coupe and the China only BMW 5er Li.

The intelligent part is really the introduction of the Carbon Age for core BMW models beginning with the all new 7er. On top of this architecture brings an intelligent mix of material technology which combines aluminium , magnesium and CFRP to each models structure.

The weight advantages over existing architecture is outstanding. There is a BMW i8 video you should watch because it essentially gives the game away to how BMW will bring Cost effective not Cost cutting changes to each new model , less is most definitely more especially in achieving overall weight reduction.

Upcoming Technical innovation will also be shared across each model - Advanced Head-Up Display with incorporated surround augmented reality and passenger entertainment , social facility , Autonomous driving and Self-Park, BMWs new ride refinement control and Laser Headlights to name a few.
This will be possible on even the 3er because of the single architecture.

Then there will be a shared architecture in collaboration with Toyota for a range of sportier models including the next 6er and Z models.
Again this is scalable and modular to be utilised on a range of jointly developed models between BMW and Toyota/Lexus.
The key part to this significance will be all resources will be able to be contributed between both brands and you are looking at possibly a first a full Carbon fibre tub structure in a mid-entry Roadster. This is strategically and an important area of innovation. No competitor will be able to match that in a volume product like a Z3.

Of course the cost savings will be there , but it will also allow BMW to challenge future legislation and rising costs but still develop new niches as well as extending individual model portfolios to appeal to new and existing customers.

It also brings BMW at the forefront of engineering innovation.
The first look at an exciting new future will be celebrated in the form of a new Luxury Concept car that will be unveiled in April ahead of the Auto China in Beijing.
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      03-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #58
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I read all the doubt and concern, but the guys at BMW have done a pretty damn good job so far. Some moves like going full line of turbo etc hurt but seems like the right thing to do. Now the whole industry has followed their lead.anyway, some thoughts.....
1. Is the issue that "BMW" is heading to shared architecture? Because vw/Audi/porche has mastered that idea and still puts out great cars.
2. Does BMW diversify to for the hell of it or because the are trying to compete with multiple levels of consumers under one roof... Ie (again) vw/Audi/Porsche. I have seen legit reviews of 1er vs gti, 3er vs a4, and m5 vs panamera. Who else competes on so many customer levels?
3. BMW innovation is applauded when they do something crazy like spend wads on CFRP factories to stay ahead of the industry, I can't help but think the have more up their sleeves. Are they clueless or looking farther ahead then we are?

Anyway I'm worried also, but judging by the 3/4 and 2series etc. I'm still excited and optimistic
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      03-15-2014, 09:11 PM   #59
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I hope that M brand will get a dedicated platform. Don't know how that will work.
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      03-15-2014, 09:45 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo85
This is horrible. First the death of naturaly aspirated 6 cylinder engines, a family van with FWD, now modular plattform concepts.....

With every further step the brand becomes more and more Volkswagen. Everything is focused on the profits and gains. What happend to "Sheer driving pleasure"?

Lets hope that this modular plattform sharing is only a bridge towards the day untill they offer FULL CARBON FIBRE chasis in every BMW.
Why don't you wait until you can actually drive the upcoming model range. A shared platform doesn't have to spell compromise. Time will tell and you can vote with your wallet.
Shared platform by definition means compromise...
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      03-15-2014, 10:03 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The Architecture used for the next generation BMW 3er , 5er , ,7er , X models and the Rolls-Royce Ghost is modular , the Architecture is the central piece and then depending on which model the remaining sections are modular and then applied to distinguish each model whether in SAV or extended wheelbase models.

Its an intelligent approach to a shared architecture. It is in fact similar to what is used in the current 5er , 6er , 7er , X5 etc and that is why we have extended model variation in the BMW 5er Gran Turismo , BMW 6er Gran Coupe and the China only BMW 5er Li.

The intelligent part is really the introduction of the Carbon Age for core BMW models beginning with the all new 7er. On top of this architecture brings an intelligent mix of material technology which combines aluminium , magnesium and CFRP to each models structure.

The weight advantages over existing architecture is outstanding. There is a BMW i8 video you should watch because it essentially gives the game away to how BMW will bring Cost effective not Cost cutting changes to each new model , less is most definitely more especially in achieving overall weight reduction.

Upcoming Technical innovation will also be shared across each model - Advanced Head-Up Display with incorporated surround augmented reality and passenger entertainment , social facility , Autonomous driving and Self-Park, BMWs new ride refinement control and Laser Headlights to name a few.
This will be possible on even the 3er because of the single architecture.

Then there will be a shared architecture in collaboration with Toyota for a range of sportier models including the next 6er and Z models.
Again this is scalable and modular to be utilised on a range of jointly developed models between BMW and Toyota/Lexus.
The key part to this significance will be all resources will be able to be contributed between both brands and you are looking at possibly a first a full Carbon fibre tub structure in a mid-entry Roadster. This is strategically and an important area of innovation. No competitor will be able to match that in a volume product like a Z3.

Of course the cost savings will be there , but it will also allow BMW to challenge future legislation and rising costs but still develop new niches as well as extending individual model portfolios to appeal to new and existing customers.

It also brings BMW at the forefront of engineering innovation.
The first look at an exciting new future will be celebrated in the form of a new Luxury Concept car that will be unveiled in April ahead of the Auto China in Beijing.
Nice of you to do what you must and try to put a positive PR spin on this, but in the end this is c/w and indicative of the paradigm shift that has occurred at BMW.

BMW appears to believe profitability in the future will not be optimized by focusing on things that have lead me to purchase numerous BMWs in the past. They've abandoned the driving enthusiast.
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      03-15-2014, 10:23 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
The Architecture used for the next generation BMW 3er , 5er , ,7er , X models and the Rolls-Royce Ghost is modular , the Architecture is the central piece and then depending on which model the remaining sections are modular and then applied to distinguish each model whether in SAV or extended wheelbase models.

Its an intelligent approach to a shared architecture. It is in fact similar to what is used in the current 5er , 6er , 7er , X5 etc and that is why we have extended model variation in the BMW 5er Gran Turismo , BMW 6er Gran Coupe and the China only BMW 5er Li.

The intelligent part is really the introduction of the Carbon Age for core BMW models beginning with the all new 7er. On top of this architecture brings an intelligent mix of material technology which combines aluminium , magnesium and CFRP to each models structure.

The weight advantages over existing architecture is outstanding. There is a BMW i8 video you should watch because it essentially gives the game away to how BMW will bring Cost effective not Cost cutting changes to each new model , less is most definitely more especially in achieving overall weight reduction.

Upcoming Technical innovation will also be shared across each model - Advanced Head-Up Display with incorporated surround augmented reality and passenger entertainment , social facility , Autonomous driving and Self-Park, BMWs new ride refinement control and Laser Headlights to name a few.
This will be possible on even the 3er because of the single architecture.

Then there will be a shared architecture in collaboration with Toyota for a range of sportier models including the next 6er and Z models.
Again this is scalable and modular to be utilised on a range of jointly developed models between BMW and Toyota/Lexus.
The key part to this significance will be all resources will be able to be contributed between both brands and you are looking at possibly a first a full Carbon fibre tub structure in a mid-entry Roadster. This is strategically and an important area of innovation. No competitor will be able to match that in a volume product like a Z3.

Of course the cost savings will be there , but it will also allow BMW to challenge future legislation and rising costs but still develop new niches as well as extending individual model portfolios to appeal to new and existing customers.

It also brings BMW at the forefront of engineering innovation.
The first look at an exciting new future will be celebrated in the form of a new Luxury Concept car that will be unveiled in April ahead of the Auto China in Beijing.
When the term "Autonomous Driving" is applied to a BMW, the end is near. I really want to get a 4 series before it's too late.
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      03-15-2014, 10:49 PM   #63
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When the term "Autonomous Driving" is applied to a BMW, the end is near. I really want to get a 4 series before it's too late.
I thought I would be the only one to pick up on that line. It's absurd. It's completely opposite of BMW.
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      03-16-2014, 01:17 AM   #64
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Let's see if the models reduce their appeal to the clear model audience. Meaning if the 3 series people are happy with their new models as the 7 series folks. Anyway, as kind as they appeal to the true BMW enthusiast then we should be OK.


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      03-16-2014, 02:37 AM   #65
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Can someone explain to me the specifics of platform sharing? I used to think it meant having the same chassis...

Also on what Scott said, does this mean more options will be available to lower models, and perhaps lower price for all base models?

I would really love to buy a 135i sized car with all the features of a 6 series.
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      03-16-2014, 03:31 AM   #66
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I really do not care for platform sharing. I really love BMW and I actually want them to succeed and become the #1 automaker in the world. BMW is up there and was actually most valuable car brand before. What this means is they are going to have to cater to every single person in the world, and many people have vastly different tastes. Heck, most people do not care for the performance or "handling".

However, BMW needs to invest more into development and innovation because Mercedes Benz new W205 C class is definitely better than the F30 IMO. It looks fantastic inside and out and the functions and new tech is far better than the F30. I'll need to test drive one to see if their claims on performance and handling is really all that. At least this time, they know to put a 329hp engine in it. I feel like the F30 wasn't even an improvement over the E90, not much has change, even styling. Guess we have to wait till the upcoming F30 facelift to really see changes, otherwise, I'm really leaning towards the MB W205 car.
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