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      06-26-2019, 01:13 PM   #1
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Elizabeth Warren "decriminalize border crossing"

Oh this shit just gets better and better. Fuck it just have an open border and let everyone in. Yeah lets see how that works out for everyone.

So far the dems offer us
Free education and school loan forgiveness
Reparations for slavery
And now open borders to allow in waves of future handout voters.
All this on the taxpayers dime of course.

Sad thing is the demographics are shifting. I doubt there will be another conservative presdient in the US at the rate things are going. And if the liberal progressives get their way the US will make Venezuela and the USSR look like paradise.


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      06-26-2019, 01:35 PM   #2
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If these people ever get power, RIP USA.
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      06-26-2019, 03:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
If these people ever get power, RIP USA.
That's a bit dramatic. This nation has survived 44 presidents and is currently surviving its 45th, despite assurances from the Left that we would certainly implode. We will keep on surviving 45 and we will survive 46, no matter which side he/she/them/they may align with. Policies may shift, laws may change, the economy might tank, we could get into a war, but the country will survive.
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      06-26-2019, 03:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
That's a bit dramatic. This nation has survived 44 presidents and is currently surviving its 45th, despite assurances from the Left that we would certainly implode. We will keep on surviving 45 and we will survive 46, no matter which side he/she/them/they may align with. Policies may shift, laws may change, the economy might tank, we could get into a war, but the country will survive.
^This. I have to tell my mother this all the time. She was sure that Obama was the literal incarnation of Satan, like actually thought he was created by the devil. She now constantly worries that if a Dem gets elected president again, the entire country is going to simply implode. (sigh). I keep telling her that Obama was one of the most left wing presidents in her lifetime and other than a stagnant economy, the country seemed to weather that just fine. Same with Trump. He is probably one of the most polarizing presidents the US has ever had, but things are doing just fine.

People give politicians way too much credit. In addition, our system of government is purposely designed to move so slow, that it would be hard to have one single president be able to cause too much damage in only 8 years.

Finally, even if we did get a radical leftist into office and by a miracle the house and senate both flipped to the left at the same time, what would really be the worst outcome? We'd become France or England? I must say, while America is probably a better place to live than those countries, they aren't exactly Chad or the DRC. We would all just get along fine even if the country had a massive shift in politics.

But let's be realistic here, both Obama and Trump had a majority in the house and senate for a period of time and neither was able to get anything passed other than a single item (ACA for Obama and TCJA for Trump).

People freak out over politics - need to realize these folks are not nearly as important as they pretend to be.

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      06-26-2019, 04:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
That's a bit dramatic. This nation has survived 44 presidents and is currently surviving its 45th, despite assurances from the Left that we would certainly implode. We will keep on surviving 45 and we will survive 46, no matter which side he/she/them/they may align with. Policies may shift, laws may change, the economy might tank, we could get into a war, but the country will survive.
I am not saying the country will be gone during that President's term (though a think a civil war isn't far, regardless of scale).

But these:

Open borders with no consequence + free college for everyone + free HC for everyone + debt forgiveness for everyone + reparations =

A country in a death spiral. Completely unsustainable. Taxation will be so extreme that personal liberty will be a foreign concept in this new "America".

These ideas are 1000x more radical than anything Trump has proposed/enacted.
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      06-26-2019, 04:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
I am not saying the country will be gone during that President's term (though a think a civil war isn't far, regardless of scale).

But these:

Open borders with no consequence + free college for everyone + free HC for everyone + debt forgiveness for everyone + reparations =

A country in a death spiral. Completely unsustainable. Taxation will be so extreme that personal liberty will be a foreign concept in this new "America".

These ideas are 1000x more radical than anything Trump has proposed/enacted.
They may be 1000x more radical than what Trump has proposed (though "taking out" the families of ISIS members seemed pretty radical to me), but the difference is he's in office and they are stumping to the base. It's all pie in the sky dreams that would still need to be put into law. We have enough checks and balances to keep even the most "out there" president in check, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on.
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      06-26-2019, 04:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
That's a bit dramatic. This nation has survived 44 presidents and is currently surviving its 45th, despite assurances from the Left that we would certainly implode. We will keep on surviving 45 and we will survive 46, no matter which side he/she/them/they may align with. Policies may shift, laws may change, the economy might tank, we could get into a war, but the country will survive.
Very true. But the unsustainable path we appear to be on, whether exemplified by Obama (technocrat in over his head) or Trump (appealing to and ruling based on his base, not what is good for the country), both fueling our debt problem and not running an accountable government, is a slippery slope that will be hard to recover from. The next GOP candidate can actually say "make america great again", after what we have been through the last 11 years. And I do believe one of these progressive leftists (Bernie, warren, Harris, etc), if elected with a majority in both houses (circa obama and 2008), may well fuel a debt problem which will be hard to recover from (see Greece 2010).
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      06-26-2019, 05:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
They may be 1000x more radical than what Trump has proposed (though "taking out" the families of ISIS members seemed pretty radical to me), but the difference is he's in office and they are stumping to the base. It's all pie in the sky dreams that would still need to be put into law. We have enough checks and balances to keep even the most "out there" president in check, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on.
TBH, wasn’t even aware of the “ISIS family” statement until you mentioned it here. That’s a ridiculous statement.

Based off your posts here it seems safe to say you are not one of these socialist radicals, but those ideas are not radical in your party. The majority of dems running have all adopted these ideas except for a couple. And the ones that haven’t are being pressured into changing their positions (Biden comes to mind).

The best “check and balance” for a radical government is the 2nd amendment, and your party also wants that removed.
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      06-26-2019, 05:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post

The best “check and balance” for a radical government is the 2nd amendment, and your party also wants that removed.
The problem I have with a phrase like this is how blanket it is.

Dems could call all republicans dumbasses who are against abortion and birth control (see Rick Santorum). It would be as accurate as your statement.

The democrats are the opposition party right now. They are not bloodthirsty deep state supporters out to force you to name your children Juan or Akeem, if they do not make you forcibly abort those kids. They simply have different ideas on how government should be run. I don't support most of them, but I'm not afraid of them (the democrats) either.
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      06-26-2019, 05:28 PM   #10
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The problem I have with a phrase like this is how blanket it is.

Dems could call all republicans dumbasses who are against abortion and birth control (see Rick Santorum). It would be as accurate as your statement.

The democrats are the opposition party right now. They are not bloodthirsty deep state supporters out to force you to name your children Juan or Akeem, if they do not make you forcibly abort those kids. They simply have different ideas on how government should be run. I don't support most of them, but I'm not afraid of them (the democrats) either.
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to curb a tyrannical government. That's literally the reason why it's there. The second it's gone, politicians will chip away at our other rights until we are subjects instead of citizens.

You may find the policy ideas harmless, but the fact that you post about basically every single one of Trump's policies being extreme and horrible tells me everything I need to know about your "compass".
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      06-26-2019, 05:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
TBH, wasn’t even aware of the “ISIS family” statement until you mentioned it here. That’s a ridiculous statement.

Based off your posts here it seems safe to say you are not one of these socialist radicals, but those ideas are not radical in your party. The majority of dems running have all adopted these ideas except for a couple. And the ones that haven’t are being pressured into changing their positions (Biden comes to mind).

The best “check and balance” for a radical government is the 2nd amendment, and your party also wants that removed.
Not a Socialist radical and also not my party. I left after 2016. I prefer to "roll my own" now. The Dems have moved too far left even for me and the DNC corruption, HRC, ugh, just dont get me started.

The 2020 Dem field is shaping up pretty poorly. 2016 was all about picking the lesser of 2 bad options for a lot of people. I think 2020 is shaping up to be a "devil you know vs. devil you dont know" kinda event.
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      06-26-2019, 05:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
The problem I have with a phrase like this is how blanket it is.

Dems could call all republicans dumbasses who are against abortion and birth control (see Rick Santorum). It would be as accurate as your statement.

The democrats are the opposition party right now. They are not bloodthirsty deep state supporters out to force you to name your children Juan or Akeem, if they do not make you forcibly abort those kids. They simply have different ideas on how government should be run. I don't support most of them, but I'm not afraid of them (the democrats) either.
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to curb a tyrannical government. That's literally the reason why it's there. The second it's gone, politicians will chip away at our other rights until we are subjects instead of citizens.

You may find the policy ideas harmless, but the fact that you post about basically every single one of Trump's policies being extreme and horrible tells me everything I need to know about your "compass".
More "blanket" statements. As an example, you're wrong about me criticizing everything about Trump. I've listed 15 to 20 things on "hit or misses" that I've listed as "hit".
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      06-26-2019, 06:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
People give politicians way too much credit. In addition, our system of government is purposely designed to move so slow, that it would be hard to have one single president be able to cause too much damage in only 8 years.

But let's be realistic here, both Obama and Trump had a majority in the house and senate for a period of time and neither was able to get anything passed other than a single item (ACA for Obama and TCJA for Trump).
Well at the age of 73 and having studied American History from 1890 to 1945. There is absolutely no comparison on how far we have come off the rails. No party has ever put the Country in a position that it may not recover from. Thousands of illegals just wandering across the border knowing that they will not be deported. And one party likes it bc it is causing chaos-which will be blamed on Trump. Its economic Armageddon. Add to that our debt is 20+ trillion and unfunded future liabilities are way worse.

John F.Kennedy the last great Democratic President said "Ask not what your country can do for you-Ask what you can do for your country.

One other thing. There have always be editorials in the Media. But never has the news media actually changed and portrayed a President or Party in such a liight. Ask Germany and others about a biased news media.

And you need a super-majority in the senate to control the Legislature.

One other ting. World population has doubled in the last 50 years. Making more people but no more land.

Things have changed my friend. But we'll see.

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      06-26-2019, 07:16 PM   #14
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Well at the age of 73 and having studied American History from 1890 to 1945. There is absolutely no comparison on how far we have come off the rails. No party has ever put the Country in a position that it may not recover from. Thousands of illegals just wandering across the border knowing that they will not be deported. And one party likes it bc it is causing chaos-which will be blamed on Trump. Its economic Armageddon. Add to that our debt is 20+ trillion and unfunded future liabilities are way worse.

John F.Kennedy the last great Democratic President said "Ask not what your country can do for you-Ask what you can do for your country.

One other thing. There have always be editorials in the Media. But never has the news media actually changed and portrayed a President or Party in such a liight. Ask Germany and others about a biased news media.

And you need a super-majority in the senate to control the Legislature.

One other ting. World population has doubled in the last 50 years. Making more people but no more land.

Things have changed my friend. But we'll see.
One party may be cheering the wave of illegal immigrants, but the other party has been in a position to actually do something about it and instead got sidetracked in a stupid squabble over a wall. At least Trump finally has the right idea about pressuring Mexico to be a partner in this.

As for that national debt and unfunded future liabilities, I'm not seeing the current administration giving a rat's ass about fiscal responsibility.
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      06-26-2019, 07:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to curb a tyrannical government. That's literally the reason why it's there. The second it's gone, politicians will chip away at our other rights until we are subjects instead of citizens.

.

Speaking as an outsider, this does not make any sense to me. I cannot fathom how one believes this. I don't mean disrespect here, but logically I really cannot fathom how this makes sense, so help me out here.

Here's where I'm coming from - tell me why I'm wrong.

So the second amendment is the right to bear arms. Ok, cool. We'll leave aside the rather decent argument that you are bringing a knife to a gunfight, because the government's weapons are orders of magnitude better than a civilians. Instead, let's assume the soldiers refuse to obey an order b/c it is their family they are fighting against, which I understand is the counter to that argument.

So let's say for a moment that old Bernie gets in, and given his apparent extreme dislike for basic economic theory, decides to take a swing at the 1st amendment to prohibit anyone from talking about economic theory and why his policies are stupid.

And further, let's say you as a proud owner of firearms doesn't like too much that they are chipping away at the 1st amendment right. So what? Are you going to take your AR to the white house, ask the guards to stand down, so you can exercise your 2nd A rights and curb this tyrannical government?

No of course not. You are going to wind up very, very, very dead long before you see the whites of Bernie's eyes.

So my point is the government can leave 2A in place and take a swing at any of the other "rights" that they want. 2A to me seems useless, because you (and say the 10,000 others who feel like you) are still going to wind up very dead. Even if it is 100,000 people. Still dead. Because there are more soldiers who don't recognize any of those people as family, and they'll obey their orders to eliminate the threat. And then its off into the long good night for you all.

So no - I cannot see how the 2A is protecting you from them chipping away at the other rights. They could do that anytime, and you aren't going to say boo, unless you want to die or go to prison for a very long time.

Now let's look at it from the opposite angle too - the above is you + 100,000 people. And now you might say, yeah, but what if all of America (or substantially all) doesn't like the government and thinks it is tyrannical and needs a good overthrowing. Refresh the roots of liberty with a little blood and all.

Ok - so what. Let's say you all do that (and enough soldiers refuse to put you down) and you are successful in overthrowing the government. Why did you need 2A in the first place then? You are now the government (effectively) and you just pardon all of yourselves, or elect a new government that does that. All legal and good. 2A didn't help or hinder you in this scenario it seems to me.

What am I missing?
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      06-26-2019, 09:40 PM   #16
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Speaking as an outsider, this does not make any sense to me. I cannot fathom how one believes this. I don't mean disrespect here, but logically I really cannot fathom how this makes sense, so help me out here.

Here's where I'm coming from - tell me why I'm wrong.

So the second amendment is the right to bear arms. Ok, cool. We'll leave aside the rather decent argument that you are bringing a knife to a gunfight, because the government's weapons are orders of magnitude better than a civilians. Instead, let's assume the soldiers refuse to obey an order b/c it is their family they are fighting against, which I understand is the counter to that argument.

So let's say for a moment that old Bernie gets in, and given his apparent extreme dislike for basic economic theory, decides to take a swing at the 1st amendment to prohibit anyone from talking about economic theory and why his policies are stupid.

And further, let's say you as a proud owner of firearms doesn't like too much that they are chipping away at the 1st amendment right. So what? Are you going to take your AR to the white house, ask the guards to stand down, so you can exercise your 2nd A rights and curb this tyrannical government?

No of course not. You are going to wind up very, very, very dead long before you see the whites of Bernie's eyes.

So my point is the government can leave 2A in place and take a swing at any of the other "rights" that they want. 2A to me seems useless, because you (and say the 10,000 others who feel like you) are still going to wind up very dead. Even if it is 100,000 people. Still dead. Because there are more soldiers who don't recognize any of those people as family, and they'll obey their orders to eliminate the threat. And then its off into the long good night for you all.

So no - I cannot see how the 2A is protecting you from them chipping away at the other rights. They could do that anytime, and you aren't going to say boo, unless you want to die or go to prison for a very long time.

Now let's look at it from the opposite angle too - the above is you + 100,000 people. And now you might say, yeah, but what if all of America (or substantially all) doesn't like the government and thinks it is tyrannical and needs a good overthrowing. Refresh the roots of liberty with a little blood and all.

Ok - so what. Let's say you all do that (and enough soldiers refuse to put you down) and you are successful in overthrowing the government. Why did you need 2A in the first place then? You are now the government (effectively) and you just pardon all of yourselves, or elect a new government that does that. All legal and good. 2A didn't help or hinder you in this scenario it seems to me.

What am I missing?
Well I don't need to bring up the tons of examples where authoritarian governments remove firearms from the populace and horrible things happen.

We aren't talking about 100,000 people and 100,000 guns. So let's assume that the roughly 50% of the country that voted for Donald Trump also has the majority of firearms. Assume maybe a third or half of those fought back in a "boogaloo" situation like you are referring to. Current figures show 393 million firearms in the US. Regarding US military versus the civilian population, Vietnam would like to have a chat.

And by the 1st amendment, I'm mainly referring to situations like this:

You have a text from Bank of America - "Your funds have been frozen due to your activity online. After a 30 day suspension you can access these funds again. To appeal this ban.."

(if you don't think this could occur I recommend looking up Gavin Mccines and Chase Bank)

Also, being an American you will learn that the vast majority of the military are passionately pro-2A. Every single person I know in the armed forces would never participate in a gun roundup that would result in the deaths of civilians. There would be a large percentage of them siding with the civilian population.

So if the uprising won that fight, "take care" of the outgoing administration publicly. Then hold new elections with this new understanding that corruption will not be tolerated.

If they lost, then the country is gone anyways.
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      06-26-2019, 09:43 PM   #17
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It's June 26th, 2019. That means we're having debates what, nearly 17 months before the election?

I absolutely hate our election cycles in this country, they never end. Good Lord I wish I could unplug from all this shit somehow.
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      06-26-2019, 11:12 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
Very true. But the unsustainable path we appear to be on, whether exemplified by Obama (technocrat in over his head) or Trump (appealing to and ruling based on his base, not what is good for the country), both fueling our debt problem and not running an accountable government, is a slippery slope that will be hard to recover from. The next GOP candidate can actually say "make america great again", after what we have been through the last 11 years. And I do believe one of these progressive leftists (Bernie, warren, Harris, etc), if elected with a majority in both houses (circa obama and 2008), may well fuel a debt problem which will be hard to recover from (see Greece 2010).
Running massive deficits. One of the few things both parties can agree on. Uncontrolled illegal immigration plus universal healthcare for all would be a debt nightmare.
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      06-27-2019, 06:13 AM   #19
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It's June 26th, 2019. That means we're having debates what, nearly 17 months before the election?

I absolutely hate our election cycles in this country, they never end. Good Lord I wish I could unplug from all this shit somehow.
I rarely watch TV and unplugged from TV news years ago but just had to turn on the debate.
Oh my and yikes. I'll leave it at that.
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      06-27-2019, 06:32 AM   #20
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It's June 26th, 2019. That means we're having debates what, nearly 17 months before the election?

I absolutely hate our election cycles in this country, they never end. Good Lord I wish I could unplug from all this shit somehow.
It's not 17 months from the Democrat primary. 💡
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      06-27-2019, 07:13 AM   #21
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Andrew Yang
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Oh no - technical difficulties. It’s the Russians.
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      06-27-2019, 08:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
I rarely watch TV and unplugged from TV news years ago but just had to turn on the debate.
Oh my and yikes. I'll leave it at that.
I have not watched a news program or a commercial on TV in nearly half a decade. It has made my life much more pleasant.
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