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      08-16-2017, 11:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Monuments are created in defiance of any type of advancement by minorities
Bunker Hill Monument
Washington Monument
Lincoln Memorial
Mt Rushmore
Statue of Liberty
Marine Corps War Memorial
USS Arizona Memorial

And on and on .... built in defiance of minority advancement.
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      08-16-2017, 11:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Bunker Hill Monument
Washington Monument
Lincoln Memorial
Mt Rushmore
Statue of Liberty
Marine Corps War Memorial
USS Arizona Memorial

And on and on .... built in defiance of minority advancement.
What about them?
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      08-16-2017, 11:10 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Monuments are created in defiance of any type of advancement by minorities
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
What about them?
I listed several monuments and was curious how they were created in defiance of minority advancement (and stated so in my post).
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      08-16-2017, 11:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I listed several monuments and was curious how they were created in defiance of minority advancement (and stated so in my post).
But those aren't confederate monuments, I don't understand?
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      08-16-2017, 11:31 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
But those aren't confederate monuments, I don't understand?
You didn't say Confederate monuments. George Washington was a slave owner - is his monument offensive. Thomas Jefferson was also a slave owner - is his memorial and Mt Rushmore also offensive?

Robert E Lee was a West Point graduate and served in the U.S. Military and was a hero, along with Ulysses S, Grant in the Mexican-American War. He was president of Washington and Lee University after the Civil War until his death in 1870.
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      08-16-2017, 11:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
You didn't say Confederate monuments. George Washington was a slave owner - is his monument offensive. Thomas Jefferson was also a slave owner - is his memorial and Mt Rushmore also offensive?

Robert E Lee was a West Point graduate and served in the U.S. Military and was a hero, along with Ulysses S, Grant in the Mexican-American War. He was president of Washington and Lee University after the Civil War until his death in 1870.
And he was also a traitor to the United States. Do we erect monuments to Benedict Arnold?
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      08-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Bunker Hill Monument
Washington Monument
Lincoln Memorial
Mt Rushmore
Statue of Liberty
Marine Corps War Memorial
USS Arizona Memorial

And on and on .... built in defiance of minority advancement.
And they will be coming for all of them...Question is will you let them?
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      08-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #30
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Robert E Lee was a loser and traitor. Guy couldn't even keep a successful plantation even with free labor from blacks. Kind of like the "house always wins" except when Trump owns the casino and it goes bankrupt.
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      08-16-2017, 11:40 AM   #31
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And they will be coming for all of them...Question is will you let them?
If they did - he, and you couldn't and wouldn't do shit about it.
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      08-16-2017, 11:43 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
If they did - he, and you couldn't and wouldn't do shit about it.
And what exactly is your impotent rage accomplishing right now?
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      08-16-2017, 11:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Why is he so salty? Hate facts?
I do believe we are witnessing shortly the moment often portrayed by the poets Trey Parker and Matt Stone, articulated by the character of Eric Cartman.

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      08-16-2017, 11:57 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
If they did - he, and you couldn't and wouldn't do shit about it.
BINGO!
Just came in and did some thread glancing. This attitude is what will lead to more deaths.
People can't just decide for themselves, what stays and what goes. In this country, it's called problem solving and discourse, not f it, do something! Well, we've seen what happens. The group that toppled what's his name yesterday...shes in jail and has felony charges pending. Now she'll probably walk around with the felony conviction albatross.
For what? To take things in your own hands and assume it's ok?

The Lincoln memorial was sprayed last night with 'F**k Law'

The msm is eating this garbage up, I assume.

Do something!
Keep screaming that and something is what will be seen.
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      08-16-2017, 12:08 PM   #35
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I just don't understand how removing monuments, essentially pieces of stone, will do ANYTHING.

Will all race issues disappear? No.

Will people forget those monuments existed and were part of history? No.

Seems people in our society are always looking for someone else to blame, regardless of what 'side' they are on. I have no sympathy for people from either side. How come they weren't busy working at their jobs?
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      08-16-2017, 12:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
I just don't understand how removing monuments, essentially pieces of stone, will do ANYTHING.

Will all race issues disappear? No.

Will people forget those monuments existed and were part of history? No.

Seems people in our society are always looking for someone else to blame, regardless of what 'side' they are on.
No you're completely wrong. Immediately removing all of these statues will stop the war zone number of senseless killings in inner cities all across America. We'll see an instant halt in mass shootings and deaths in cities such as Chicago and Baltimore once all the monuments of hate from 150 years ago are gone. It will be like flipping a switch.

Also lol @ "jobs". ;P
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      08-16-2017, 12:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
I just don't understand how removing monuments, essentially pieces of stone, will do ANYTHING.

Will all race issues disappear? No.

Will people forget those monuments existed and were part of history? No.

Seems people in our society are always looking for someone else to blame, regardless of what 'side' they are on. I have no sympathy for people from either side. How come they weren't busy working at their jobs?

There's nothing inherently historical about most of these statues. Just a ruse by racists. Just because something is old doesn't make it historically significant. These statues were put up solely to intimidate blacks and distort the real history. Why do you think many of them were placed at courthouses or city hall.
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      08-16-2017, 12:30 PM   #38
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Move them to a museum or something... no harm no foul.

But I do think having statues as a rallying cry for any side is pretty dumb. Let's work on the underlying real issues like racism, hate and intolerance - those won't change by taking a statue or two down.
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      08-16-2017, 12:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maloo View Post
There's nothing inherently historical about most of these statues. Just a ruse by racists. Just because something is old doesn't make it historically significant. These statues were put up solely to intimidate blacks and distort the real history. Why do you think many of them were placed at courthouses or city hall.
Even if they took down every single statue that could possibly represent the slightest hint of racism it will change absolutely nothing. People will move on to the next thing to blame.
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      08-16-2017, 12:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
Even if they took down every single statue that could possibly represent the slightest hint of racism it will change absolutely nothing. People will move on to the next thing to blame.

I don't disagree but I don't want to celebrate racists and traitors. And I don't want my taxes dollars going to upkeep. Simple as that. You think Germany still keeps statues of Hitler.
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      08-16-2017, 12:41 PM   #41
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      08-16-2017, 01:28 PM   #42
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Of course it's hate, not heritage. Confederate memorials celebrate racism, nothing more. The idea that states' rights were a noble cause separate and apart from slavery is pure fiction.

From the Mississippi Declaration of Succession:
Quote:
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

...

There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

...

It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.

It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.

It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.
From the Texas Declaration of Secession:

Quote:
She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slaveholding States.

...

The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article [the fugitive slave clause] of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate the amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holding States in their domestic institutions-- a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

For years past this abolition organization has been actively sowing the seeds of discord through the Union, and has rendered the federal congress the arena for spreading firebrands and hatred between the slave-holding and non-slave-holding States.

...

They have impoverished the slave-holding States by unequal and partial legislation, thereby enriching themselves by draining our substance.

...

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.
And, South Carolina:
Quote:
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
Monuments to the Confederacy and/or its leaders celebrate slavery. Nothing more, nothing less. The trope that suggests that statues and Confederate battle flags are about celebrating southern heritage are nothing more than revisionist history. There must be better symbols of pride than those that are inextricably linked to slavery, racism, and subjugation.
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      08-16-2017, 01:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie_2005 View Post
ain't it funny how conservatives trash liberals and participation trophies, yet fly one of the biggest symbols of a participation trophy the world has ever seen?

I remember last year some loser tried to tell me "the civil war wasn't about slavery, it was about state rights".

yea, and which state "right" was the biggest reason they was fighting for? the right to own slaves. even military historians will tell you that.

If you want to fly the confederate flag on your piece of shit truck or fly it at your home, do it, it's whatever.

But that nonsense does not belong on any state or federal building, as it represent treason. same with statues. move it to a museum.
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      08-16-2017, 01:38 PM   #44
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So the statue of R. E Lee is stopping black people from advancing. Jesus H. Christ now I heard everything.
It's a monument to the man who took up arms against his country, after succession, to defend the right to own slaves.

It's more about what minorities were able to accomplish in spite of these public displays immortalizing a bygone era. Take it off of taxpayer land. Move them to a museum or privatize it.
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