Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-08-2019, 10:24 AM   #45
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Obama donated a large sum of money to Iran. As all good Democrats
it wasn't his own money.
Do those tap-dancing shoes hurt? They look a little tight...
Appreciate 1
      04-08-2019, 10:53 AM   #46
NormanConquest
Lieutenant Colonel
1179
Rep
1,845
Posts

 
Drives: 340i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Do those tap-dancing shoes hurt? They look a little tight...
You made a fictious story i provided a real one.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 10:53 AM   #47
detroitm2
Major
detroitm2's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
1,006
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Why do people think that tax returns will give you any kind of glimpse into someones net-worth? One thing has nothing to do with the other. Any investments that someone has do not have to be disclosed on a tax return, unless they collected dividends for said investment during that particular year.

So whats the reason the Democrats want to see them? Why 6 years? Theres no legal obligation for them to be disclosed. IMO, the Democrats just want more data to try and find dirt, its nothing but political posturing and grasping at straws.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #48
NormanConquest
Lieutenant Colonel
1179
Rep
1,845
Posts

 
Drives: 340i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Why do you keep going back to illegal actions after I have repeatedly asked about things that are legal?

So, if Trump owed significant money to Chinese banks that are strongly connected to the government, you would see no reason for concern there?
We all owe a significant amount of money to the Chinese.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 11:03 AM   #49
RickFLM4
Brigadier General
RickFLM4's Avatar
United_States
3786
Rep
3,648
Posts

 
Drives: M4
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: PB County, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Considering Muller found nothing when he was prosecuting people for tax fraud make it quite clear Trump is in the up and up despite what the media and Democrats say.
Why do you keep going back to illegal actions after I have repeatedly asked about things that are legal?

So, if Trump owed significant money to Chinese banks that are strongly connected to the government, you would see no reason for concern there?
Let's assume he owed money to a Chinese bank controlled entirely by the Chinese government. Not sure you will ever see this on a tax return, but let's assume anyway.

What happens next? An investigation because the accusation / assumption / concern is the President is trying to trade dropping tariffs or providing secrets for forgiving his loan or something? If that's the end game, then just assume there is such a loan and start investigating.
__________________
Current: 2018 SO/SS F83 ZCP
Gone: 2015 SO/SO F82
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 11:04 AM   #50
adc100
Major
843
Rep
1,041
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Get over it Dems...the Public for the most part doesn't give a fck, the Dems will never see them, the Dems will continue to have noagenda except "Hate Trump"

If the majority of voters buy into this shat the country is toast as we knbow it. I will be 76 and will just enjoy the downward slope.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 11:18 AM   #51
NormanConquest
Lieutenant Colonel
1179
Rep
1,845
Posts

 
Drives: 340i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Why do you keep going back to illegal actions after I have repeatedly asked about things that are legal?

So, if Trump owed significant money to Chinese banks that are strongly connected to the government, you would see no reason for concern there?
No, since any loans are contractual
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #52
glennQNYC
2006 TIME Person Of The Year
glennQNYC's Avatar
United_States
5164
Rep
4,837
Posts

 
Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.87]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterF80M3 View Post
He doesn't want to release his tax return or else it will expose what his real net worth is.

"It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in Forbes," Cohen said, "and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes."
I believe they (his tax returns) may open him up to bank fraud charges. He can't help but lie. Lying to the US public is one thing. Lying on financial documents and tax forms is very different. My bet is his tax returns will be accurate, he won't be what he claims wealth-wise, and on loan documents he will have been shown to have lied. Fraud. Manafort is doing hard time for that.
Ok- But here in the United States we first find the crime... In this case the bank fraud... THEN and only then do we allow the government to investigate people that may have committed the offense. The way you and your ilk seemingly want it to be is the opposite. The Resistance wants to investigate POTUS with the hope that you'll find a crime. That is antithetical to our justice system, and completely un-American. Shame on anyone pushing for this selfish, hateful course of action on anyone, never mind the President. 🙅🏻*♂️
__________________
Appreciate 1
detroitm2826.50

      04-08-2019, 11:44 AM   #53
detroitm2
Major
detroitm2's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
1,006
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Ok- But here in the United States we first find the crime... In this case the bank fraud... THEN and only then do we investigate the people that may have committed the offense. The way you and your ilk seemingly want it to be is the opposite. The Resistance wants to investigate POTUS with the hope that you'll find a crime. That is antithetical to our justice system, and completely un-American. Shame on anyone pushing for this selfish, hateful course of action on anyone, never mind the President. 🙅🏻*♂️
Indeed. Seems to be the norm right now, too, which is massively sad.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:14 PM   #54
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
You made a fictious story i provided a real one.
No, you didn't.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:15 PM   #55
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
We all owe a significant amount of money to the Chinese.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:17 PM   #56
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
Let's assume he owed money to a Chinese bank controlled entirely by the Chinese government. Not sure you will ever see this on a tax return, but let's assume anyway.

What happens next? An investigation because the accusation / assumption / concern is the President is trying to trade dropping tariffs or providing secrets for forgiving his loan or something? If that's the end game, then just assume there is such a loan and start investigating.
Nothing necessarily happens next. However, possible leverage over the POTUS by a foreign entity is something us voters would all have a right to know, regardless of what letter is listed after their name.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:23 PM   #57
NormanConquest
Lieutenant Colonel
1179
Rep
1,845
Posts

 
Drives: 340i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
No, you didn't.
https://www.investors.com/politics/e...ran-terrorism/
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:25 PM   #58
glennQNYC
2006 TIME Person Of The Year
glennQNYC's Avatar
United_States
5164
Rep
4,837
Posts

 
Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.87]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
...possible leverage over the POTUS by a foreign entity is something us voters would all have a right to know, regardless of what letter is listed after their name.
Sounds mandatory.

How far would this go? Would this extend to family members? Businesses where he/she owns substantial control? Charitable organizations? How far down the political totem pole would these mandatory disclosures go? State Governors? Senators? Congress people? Mayors? School board members? Union leaders? Non-profit executives?

What if the improper relationship between a candidate or elected official isn't monetary? What if the relationship is based on common goals... Like say, a congressperson or President is leveraged by a foreign special interest group? Should these relationships also have to be revealed?

Funny that people were ridiculed when concerns were/are raised about foreign contributions and personal compensation to the Clintons.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:28 PM   #59
adc100
Major
843
Rep
1,041
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Nothing necessarily happens next. However, possible leverage over the POTUS by a foreign entity is something us voters would all have a right to know, regardless of what letter is listed after their name.
How will your narative change if you "objectively" see that charges against a bunch of Dems bring pleading guilty to collusion for actively frauding the Fisa court and getting this Russian witch-hunt going.

I have my own feelings about some who claim true objectivity as seen through biased glasses. I guess this statement clears up my question to you.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:38 PM   #60
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
How will your narative change if you "objectively" see that charges against a bunch of Dems bring pleading guilty to collusion for actively frauding the Fisa court and getting this Russian witch-hunt going.
#1 No one will be charged with "collusion".

#2 If "a bunch of Dems" broke laws, they should be held accountable, the same as any other citizen. I'm relatively sure I've never advocated for any other position, so I find this assumption by you odd.



Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
I have my own feelings about some who claim true objectivity as seen through biased glasses. I guess this statement clears up my question to you.
Well, I have no control over how you feel, nor would I want it.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:40 PM   #61
RickFLM4
Brigadier General
RickFLM4's Avatar
United_States
3786
Rep
3,648
Posts

 
Drives: M4
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: PB County, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Nothing necessarily happens next. However, possible leverage over the POTUS by a foreign entity is something us voters would all have a right to know, regardless of what letter is listed after their name.
His businesses owe lots of money to many lenders, and I am sure some of them are international. I would not be surprised at all if his companies owned money to banks in China. This was pretty clear when he was elected to anyone paying attention.
__________________
Current: 2018 SO/SS F83 ZCP
Gone: 2015 SO/SO F82
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:44 PM   #62
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Sounds mandatory.
What "sounds mandatory"? Us having a right to know if our very highest leadership might be beholden to foreign powers and influences?


Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
How far would this go? Would this extend to family members? Businesses where he/she owns substantial control? Charitable organizations? How far down the political totem pole would these mandatory disclosures go? State Governors? Senators? Congress people? Mayors? School board members? Union leaders? Non-profit executives?
Again, not sure where you're getting "mandatory" disclosures from. Do I think it's a good idea for politicians to release their tax returns? Yes, I do.

How far does it go? The heretofore established norms seem fine to me. Although, I will grant you that the increasingly global economy presents challenges that simply weren't a concern back in the days of, say, Teddy Roosevelt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
What if the improper relationship between a candidate or elected official isn't monetary? What if the relationship is based on common goals... Like say, a congressperson or President is leveraged by a foreign special interest group? Should these relationships also have to be revealed?
Common goals should be plainly obvious based on the politician's stances/positions, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Funny that people were ridiculed when concerns were/are raised about foreign contributions and personal compensation to the Clintons.
Not me.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2019, 12:47 PM   #63
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
His businesses owe lots of money to many lenders, and I am sure some of them are international. I would not be surprised at all if his companies owned money to banks in China. This was pretty clear when he was elected to anyone paying attention.
"Would not be surprised" is a lot different than "definitely does", right?

Further, it would matter, I assume, which banks.

We can, and do, assume many things about every politician. I think we agree that more knowledge in these cases is always better. Right?
Appreciate 1
      04-08-2019, 12:49 PM   #64
Captain Blood
Pirate and thief, avast
Captain Blood's Avatar
United_States
7298
Rep
9,100
Posts

 
Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Tortuga

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Why do you keep going back to illegal actions after I have repeatedly asked about things that are legal?

So, if Trump owed significant money to Chinese banks that are strongly connected to the government, you would see no reason for concern there?
No, they are OBVIOUSLY wanting to make America Great again.........
__________________
I need some warm warming up stuff -LUPS
Appreciate 1
      04-08-2019, 01:07 PM   #65
glennQNYC
2006 TIME Person Of The Year
glennQNYC's Avatar
United_States
5164
Rep
4,837
Posts

 
Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.87]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
What "sounds mandatory"? Us having a right to know if our very highest leadership might be beholden to foreign powers and influences?
It sounds like this "right to know" would necessarily mandate disclosures. You didn't explicitly say these disclosures were mandatory, but when you start throwing around "rights" it sounds mandatory. I intentionally didn't say your post demanded these disclosures be mandatory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Do I think it's a good idea for politicians to release their tax returns? Yes, I do.
It might or might not be a "good idea," but I'm definitely against changing the current law to allow the government (state or federal) to mandate anyone publicly release their tax returns. This doesn't change when you run for elected office, or a position in intelligence, law enforcement, judicial, etc..



Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Common goals should be plainly obvious based on the politician's stances/positions, no?
I guess I'm asking everyone to think about how this would be policed. How would foreign "leverage" be identified when it isn't monetary? What if the leverage was obtained via threating to disclose something embarrassing? A tax return would do nothing to disclose this leverage.

Adding one new thought... What about the "leverage" a candidate/official would be influencing ONTO foreign governments or organizations? We should demand transparency there too, right? So if a candidate/official were "colluding" with say, the EU to push anti-global warming initiatives... Or perhaps "colluding" with the PLO to help the Palestinians' BDS movement? What about disclosures between politicians "colluding" with members of the press?
__________________

Last edited by glennQNYC; 04-08-2019 at 01:15 PM..
Appreciate 1
SakhirM49308.50

      04-08-2019, 01:16 PM   #66
hooligan_COLD
Space Shuttle Door Gunner
hooligan_COLD's Avatar
3429
Rep
3,026
Posts

 
Drives: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back in the Mitten

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
It sounds like this "right to know" would necessarily mandate disclosures. You didn't explicitly say these disclosures were mandatory, but when you start throwing around "rights" it sounds mandatory.
I can't control your inferences.



Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
It might or might not be a "good idea," but I'm definitely against changing the current law to allow the government (state or federal) to mandate anyone publicly release their tax returns. This doesn't change when you run for elected office, or a position in intelligence, law enforcement, judicial, etc.
I never suggested any change to any legislation, either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I guess I'm asking everyone to think about how this would be policed. How would foreign "leverage" be identified when it isn't monetary?
Perhaps it can't be. So? This sounds an awful lot like a "people still do X even when it's illegal" argument. If something can't be accomplished with 100% certainty there's no value in trying to improve it at all?


Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Adding one new thought... What about the "leverage" a candidate/official would be influencing ONTO foreign governments or organizations? We should demand transparency there too, right? So if a candidate/official were "colluding" with say, the EU to push anti-global warming initiatives... Or perhaps "colluding" with the PLO to help the Palestinians' BDS movement? What about disclosures between politicians "colluding" with members of the press?
Do we not already elect politicians (at the Federal level) in large part because of the leverage we expect them to influence on foreign governments? I know foreign policy is a large part of my decision making process.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST