Buying for 16 year old son... decisions...

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

I love Stelvios & Giulias (I know, blasphemy on this forum). I attempted to buy a Stelvio Quad three different times; all three deals fizzled out (one over a lousy $1500 that I prob should have just ate). They drive fantastic, and as you stated, can be found for an absolute steal these days. But the issues are so glaringly hit and miss (and horrible to deal with, i.e. dealer/mechanic support) it scares the daylights out of me. IF, and that's a big if, we decide to go the route of getting something only for the high school years (here around town), then that would open the door back up for something like the Stelvio. But if go down the path of one car, and that's it (college too), then he needs to be in something practical and that can be fixed & maintained more easily than an Alfa. Trust me, I have YEARS of research on this topic because I wanted the Quad so badly. That SUV is absolutely ridiculous... I've driven several of them, and each time you get out of the car with a massive $hit-eating grin. The sounds alone will make you forget about any issues that come with ownership.

Every now and again I think about buying a Giulia Quad. But then I think about maintenance and I stop thinking about buying one, lol. Not only the regular Alfa reliability issues, but the nearest dealership is more than two hours away, and so far as I've been able to find there's no Alfa-specific indies anywhere close to me. On the whole, not really worth the potential (probable?) heartache.

I come to the same conclusion every time I start lusting for a Jaguar F-Type, which is fairly often. At least I could get local servicing on that one, though.

[LH44]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I come to the same conclusion every time I start lusting for a Jaguar F-Type, which is fairly often. At least I could get local servicing on that one, though.

26K on my F-Type SVR. It has never been to the dealer for anything other than scheduled maintenance.

[pbonsalb]

26k miles is not really enough to get any idea of long term high mileage reliability. I agree you are still in the scheduled maintenance only category.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by LH44

26K on my F-Type SVR. It has never been to the dealer for anything other than scheduled maintenance.

DON'T ENCOURAGE ME!

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Like fishing to me. I live on a great trout river in Virginia. Literally can walk 100 feet from my front door and cast a hook into the water. ZERO patience for it.

Now, too, I can walk 200 feet over to my shop, lift a BMW on the two-poster and pull a transmission to replace a throwout bearing. Like transcendental meditation...

I can better that, we once camped almost every weekend to get earthed from the buzz of the city. Now we live and work in the cool of clouds surrounded by trees and wildlife, 20 minutes from the ocean wear all the big city attractions can be found. 25m (80ft) out the back door is the shed where a 2 poster, radio, and fridge live. Got a pool, pool table and basket ball hoop, 2.5 acres of space and a sparsely populated neighborhood with no barking dogs.

Kids and their mates would swim in the pool, play pool or cook marshmallows around the fire. Us parents would catch up enjoying the company. Now the kids are teens its the same just the daughter makes cocktails, and I imagine the son and his mates will be occupying my hoist and drinking my beer. Life's pretty good.

[Phillies8008]

Oh yeah? Well I live in the suburbs with an ever-increasing traffic problem stemming from out of control housing development sprawl in an ocean of chain stores and restaurants! So there!

Oh...

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Oh yeah? Well I live in the suburbs with an ever-increasing traffic problem stemming from out of control housing development sprawl in an ocean of chain stores and restaurants! So there!

Oh...

And that my friend is why EVs were created, to address respiratory concerns from emissions that ICE can't. Furthermore its easy to see Elon's dream of no one has a car, just dials up one of his driverless loaners. Not saying its wrong, just why.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by jaffles

And that my friend is why EVs were created, to address respiratory concerns from emissions that ICE can't. Furthermore its easy to see Elon's dream of no one has a car, just dials up one of his driverless loaners.

I do indeed drive an EV! But I also have exactly zero interest in having a car drive me rather than the other way around. And I have less than zero interest in driving one of Elon's cars.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I do indeed drive an EV! But I also have exactly zero interest in having a car drive me rather than the other way around. And I have less than zero interest in driving one of Elon's cars.

Hear hear, my feelings exactly. I sense the idea of getting an E92 330d for the sons fist car is not that popular on hear, and I get it. However its only a few short years before EVs will be popular first cars. One of the kids at school drives a Tesla, and last time I test drove one before Elon came out, it kid of wasn't slow.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Hear hear, my feelings exactly. I sense the idea of getting an E92 330d for the sons fist car is not that popular on hear, and I get it. However its only a few short years before EVs will be popular first cars. One of the kids at school drives a Tesla, and last time I test drove one before Elon came out, it kid of wasn't slow.

I think EVs really need a parental control to limit at least the torque that EVs are capable of – IMO, it's just too much for a new driver. Ironically, I think I've been told that Tesla does have this, though I don't know for sure.

My primary concern about older cars would be the safety systems, which I think are probably the most important thing for a young driver. You'd have to evaluate that in the particular model in question. After that, I'd be concerned with putting a kid, particularly a boy, in a car with a lot of hp. They're stupid and are prone to doing stupid things; being able to do them very fast just multiplies the problem, lol.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I think EVs really need a parental control to limit at least the torque that EVs are capable of – IMO, it's just too much for a new driver. Ironically, I think I've been told that Tesla does have this, though I don't know for sure.

My primary concern about older cars would be the safety systems, which I think are probably the most important thing for a young driver. You'd have to evaluate that in the particular model in question. After that, I'd be concerned with putting a kid, particularly a boy, in a car with a lot of hp. They're stupid and are prone to doing stupid things; being able to do them very fast just multiplies the problem, lol.

So many people here are dogging used BMW. Yet, they will buy an EV for their kid. It is not HP that is the issue, it is torque!! Plus, how is a kid going to learn how to drive when the newer cars that people are proposing are all stage 2 or 3 self driving? This is why I bought a manual 3 series. It doesn't have much torque...much less than an auto and no self driving features.

They actually learn how to drive in a car that looks good and has much better driving dynamics than anything in the <20K price range (definitely better than anything anyone else has proposed like Subaru).

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by silvermanor

16 year olds having their parents buy cars for them seems to be common these days. Sad.

Agree. My son now almost 17, paid 1/2 for his Jeep 3 years ago (yes just before his 14th b-day) and is making payments to us for the other 1/2.

He also pays for his gas, and modifications, and maintenance - that he doesn't do himself.

Why we chose a '03 Jeep Wrangler. Relatively cheap, fun, not a lot of power, easy to maintain/fix, reliable, will be easy to sell for him down the road, can be used in all seasons.

We found an unmolested, 2-owner Wrangler a couple miles from us that appeared to be well-taken care of. The 1st owner had it for 18 years and had all the paperwork. It had 155k mi on it, no rust, paint looks great, etc.

We updated all the suspension components, brakes, added heated seats, a soft top, new wheels/tires, and led head lights.

We are starting to have some engine issues the head gasket was replaced (burning coolant), and we did farm that one out due to lack of time. I don't think they did a good job as it's back burning coolant again. No issues running, but we'll probably jusy swap in a new engine (less than $3k with a full 3-5 yr warranty) before he goes off to college.

For my daughter, we got her a certified '20 Subaru Impreza that had 20k mi on it. Purchased a 7-yr extended warranty & maintenance program. I think it was about $22k at the time (few years ago). Same with my son, she signed a contract and paid us back for the car.

Subarus are safe, excellent awd system, and will run forever if taken care of.

[vic07]

2008 X5d. Safe,reliable if well maintained and fun.

[pbonsalb]

So what did the OP decide for his kid? A bicycle because he needs to work hard and do everything for himself? A fast fun car he really wants because he is a car enthusiast? A cheap beater because he will crash it? A big heavy and safe car because someone will crash into him? A new fuel sipper he can drive for the next 10 years?

[TXGrey]

Nothing yet. Buy window will be around late June/early July. Gives him a few months to get used to it before he gets his license in September. We’ll keep looking and researching options until closer to the buy window, then I’ll narrow things down. Enjoying the input and opinions of the forum members in the meantime.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I think EVs really need a parental control to limit at least the torque that EVs are capable of – IMO, it's just too much for a new driver. Ironically, I think I've been told that Tesla does have this, though I don't know for sure.

They do.
Though I don't bother with those.

Originally Posted by thebmw

So many people here are dogging used BMW. Yet, they will buy an EV for their kid.

Yep, makes perfect sense to me (though I didn't follow my own advice ;-).
EVs used to depreciate a lot faster (due to new EV Fed rebates), so getting a low-maintenance, safe used car at a bargain would be a solid plan.

Originally Posted by thebmw

It is not HP that is the issue, it is torque!!

What's the issue, either way?

Kids wont learn throttle discipline without a car that can show them what happens if they don't have it. Which is why all my learning drives with my teens were in F80 M3, with TC ON. When DSC light would start blinking, we pulled over and discussed what happened. Only 1 conversation per situation was ever required.

Originally Posted by thebmw

Plus, how is a kid going to learn how to drive when the newer cars that people are proposing are all stage 2 or 3 self driving?

None have Stage 3 (unsupervised), and all instances of Stage 2 are unreliable (despite marketing claims), and work poorly in populated areas. Usually, we don't bother with them.
Dynamic cruise control with lane centering (aka Stage 2) is handy on long highway stints.

Originally Posted by thebmw

This is why I bought a manual 3 series. It doesn't have much torque...much less than an auto and no self driving features.

Nice.
Which year/model did you get?

a

[FrankL]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

Love that car… never driven one tho. It’s on the list. Well, the small CUV is anyhow.

Ford Fusion 2006 to 2012 if you can find low mileage and get the 4 cylinder. It is peppy enough. Too many stories of parents getting kids a Tesla or sports car and bad things happen.

The car is essentially a Mazda. Very reliable. I still have a 2007 with a 5 speed. I can't sell it because it is so reliable. The paint is like new and interior is very good. Safe with loads of airbags.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by FrankL

Ford Fusion 2006 to 2012 if you can find low mileage and get the 4 cylinder. It is peppy enough. Too many stories of parents getting kids a Tesla or sports car and bad things happen.

The car is essentially a Mazda. Very reliable. I still have a 2007 with a 5 speed. I can't sell it because it is so reliable. The paint is like new and interior is very good. Safe with loads of airbags.

Reckon Ford is a fail. We had an 03 Focus but by 2011 with 180k km the rubber an plastic had perished so bad in it the replacement cost was extensive and expensive. So it was traded for $300 on a Totota. Ford admit to making cars last for 10 years, in my opinion they don't even see that. The 1.5lt Prius C that replaced it 10 years on has 270k km on it and cost us 2 cranker batteries, 1 main drive battery (with unlimited ks and 10yr warranty), and two rear shocks totaling $3500au. Tyres, oil and filters has been its only other expense. The car has nothing perishing.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Nice.
Which year/model did you get?

F30 335i. In comfort mode, it is "slow" with limited torque at lower RPM. Truly, the automatics have much more torque available off the line.

Plus, there is the extra 0.5-1 second needed to engage the clutch and the extra care needed to go from 1-2 gear because of BMW manuals. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. It's been heavily criticized for years, but a feature when you want someone to accelerate slower LOL.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by thebmw

F30 335i. In comfort mode, it is "slow" with limited torque at lower RPM.

That car comes with an N55 engine.
I think we have very differenet definitions of "slow" ;-)

Originally Posted by thebmw

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. It's been heavily criticized for years, but a feature when you want someone to accelerate slower LOL.

I solute your decision to tech your kid 6MT.
I seriously entertained that idea, but ultimately decided against it.

a

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That car comes with an N55 engine.
I think we have very differenet definitions of "slow" ;-)

My perception of slow has evolved, for sure! Growing up, 0-60 at 7 seconds was fast. All our other cars are 500hp+, so 300hp with neutered tuning in comfort mode coupled with BMW's manual makes it relatively slow. But for comparison, virtually any new automatic trans car or EV will crush it off the line. Fortunately, my son knows that BMWs are not cheap to repair so he does not beat on the car (another reason to NOT buy a beater...they will beat on it).

[STi from DSM]

My first car was a Mazda 323. It was a perfect car for me because it had 86 HP. It was $1500 and my Dad told me that my next car I would have to pay for myself.
Teenagers these days get everything handed down to them. They have 0 idea what it costs to keep a car on the road. Now obviously this does not apply to everyone but it is my perception.
You want their first vehicle to be safe but not be a lemon. Whoever suggested an Alfa, you should be slapped! jk . My brother had the Guilia and replaced the engine twice! I would never buy any Alfa regardless of how cool it looks.

The problem with asking this question on a forum is you will get opinions from every single person on what things work and what things do not.

A first car should be reliable, safe, and hopefully have enough creature comforts that can tide them through to their next vehicle.

Hopefully the OP can find something that works well for their situation.