you think $10k or $25k markups are a lot? how about...

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Here is a secret - check aftermarket values on Rolexes vs even Porsche... it may provide some perspective.

Better yet, go try and buy any new special Rolex model... it may just be easier to get a GT car at msrp

Second hand Rolex market is down since peak in March. For instance trading value one of biggest "flex" watches, Daytona is down 36%. Overall Rolex values are down 13% and dropping. New watches are becoming increasing easier to get. The very long wait times are in the past. On the other hand GT allocations are still near impossible to get.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Second hand Rolex market is down since peak in March. For instance trading value one of biggest "flex" watches Daytona is down 36%. Overall Rolex values are down 13% and dropping. New watches are becoming increasing easier to get. The very long wait times are in the past. On the other hand GT allocations are still near impossible to get.

All correct, except for the GT models i.e the daytonas, gmt masters... u will still wait years for the former and over a year for the latter. Expect to pay 2x for the daytona and 1.5 x for the GMT in the aftermarket down from its peak of 3x and 2x lol.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

All correct, except for the GT models i.e the daytonas, gmt masters... u will still wait years for the former and over a year for the latter. Expect to pay 2x for the daytona and 1.5 x for the GMT in the aftermarket down from its peak of 3x and 2x lol.

You need a new AD.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M3WC

You need a new AD.

PM me who you have with a Panda Daytona at Retail coming in and you might get a nice finders fee...

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by D22M2

Only dummies pay ADM -
Don’t care how much dough you got .

Everything is relative. To some folks a $15k ADM is nothing.

If you have the money, the price outweighs having to wait months/years for many people...or the aggravation and time spent playing games.

Getting the hot cars (watches etc.) at MSRP usually means a strong purchase history, which is just another form of ADM in the end.

[D22M2]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

Everything is relative. To some folks a $15k ADM is nothing.

If you have the money, the price outweighs having to wait months/years for many people...or the aggravation and time spent playing games.

Getting the hot cars (watches etc.) at MSRP usually means a strong purchase history, which is just another form of ADM in the end.

Trust me, people with actual means don’t pay ADMs. Only the dummies.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by D22M2

Trust me, people with actual means don’t pay ADMs. Only the dummies.

Yea...not correct.

I know plenty of people with the "means", including those with billions not millions, that have no problem paying ADM.

Now, many of them don't pay ADM because they are already VIP and have spent hundreds of thousands/millions on cars at their dealer (substitute in watches, same game) so no they don't pay a markup but they've already paid it with their buying history.

[Anderson11]

"I know what I got, no low ballers" to of course go along with my Porsche greedy hard on..

[Soul_Glo]

It’s a sellers market.
If you want lube then that’s extra.

[RichF90M5C]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

It’s a sellers market.
If you want lube then that’s extra.

Until you want to sell

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by 10"

my guess is things won't stay like this forever
i remember 5-10 years ago at any Porsche dealer
they were discounting 5-10% all cars those days
will definitely be back one day...no worries

this whole 'YOLO' era of buying things is limited!

Well, the economy has been tanking for months. It hasn’t happened yet. My Porsche dealership lied their asses off to me and continue to do so. I’ve called all around the country for retail price on a turbo S. I finally gave up and ordered an M5. I still might buy another turbo S if your prediction comes true. However, I’m really hoping the economy rebounds one day and if that’s the case, I don’t see how things will get better with Porsche.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Any markup is ridiculous....even a $1. It's MSRP or below for me.

At this level, it's sort of expected for those shopping to be able to toss around money as if it's toilet paper. Where I get upset is with cars that are supposed to be marketed to the "budget" crowd; especially those that are targeted to the young enthusiast. It's absolutely ridiculous that these cars are not sold at MSRP and manufacturers are not holding dealerships accountable. Two cars come to mind: Civic Type R and GR Corolla. No wonder the enthusiast market is dying off.

That's the thing. I get some people got FU money and don't care. Fine. Those people existed even before this crazy car market. However how did apparently everyone get enough FU money to be paying ridiculous prices for "normal" cars. I mean I don't think anyone looking at a civic is cross shopping with a 911. Even the C8 is still going for over MSRP used. I get that we had the chip shortage and what not, but at this point I feel the manufacturers are in on it. Many of them have been raising prices and I'm sure they like selling less vehicles and making more $$.

The only car I have personally paid MSRP for was the Tesla and it's also only one of like 2-3 cars that I've ever bought new. I've been looking for a fun car after selling my mustang and I feel prices on many cars are definitely coming down, but I also feel a lot of dealers have just stuck their head in the sand and are ignoring the market and continue to list cars for exaggerated prices.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That's the thing. I get some people got FU money and don't care. Fine. Those people existed even before this crazy car market. However how did apparently everyone get enough FU money to be paying ridiculous prices for "normal" cars. I mean I don't think anyone looking at a civic is cross shopping with a 911. Even the C8 is still going for over MSRP used. I get that we had the chip shortage and what not, but at this point I feel the manufacturers are in on it. Many of them have been raising prices and I'm sure they like selling less vehicles and making more $$.

The only car I have personally paid MSRP for was the Tesla and it's also only one of like 2-3 cars that I've ever bought new. I've been looking for a fun car after selling my mustang and I feel prices on many cars are definitely coming down, but I also feel a lot of dealers have just stuck their head in the sand and are ignoring the market and continue to list cars for exaggerated prices.

Exactly. It seems like everyone magically got rich overnight & has FU $ to overpay for houses, cars, etc.

It does not add up.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That's the thing. I get some people got FU money and don't care. Fine. Those people existed even before this crazy car market. However how did apparently everyone get enough FU money to be paying ridiculous prices for "normal" cars. I mean I don't think anyone looking at a civic is cross shopping with a 911. Even the C8 is still going for over MSRP used. I get that we had the chip shortage and what not, but at this point I feel the manufacturers are in on it. Many of them have been raising prices and I'm sure they like selling less vehicles and making more $$.

The only car I have personally paid MSRP for was the Tesla and it's also only one of like 2-3 cars that I've ever bought new. I've been looking for a fun car after selling my mustang and I feel prices on many cars are definitely coming down, but I also feel a lot of dealers have just stuck their head in the sand and are ignoring the market and continue to list cars for exaggerated prices.

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Exactly. It seems like everyone magically got rich overnight & has FU $ to overpay for houses, cars, etc.

It does not add up.

To me, the only thing that seems to make sense is that MORE people are now MORE willing to get into serious debt... like a yolo type of situation. You're absolutely right, a lot of people have money but this didn't happen overnight in all sectors of the economy and for what it seems like everyone...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Exactly. It seems like everyone magically got rich overnight & has FU $ to overpay for houses, cars, etc.

It does not add up.

A lot of them did if you look at what the market did from 2020-2022.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by chris719

A lot of them did if you look at what the market did from 2020-2022.

I'm in the market, I would consider myself an "average" guy, middle-upper middle class. I certainly didn't become rich between 2020-2022.

How much money does the average person have in the market? Google is all over anything from 40k to 200k. Let's say it's 100k. Even if the market doubled that's 200k... personally if I woke up with an extra 100k in the bank tomorrow I'm still not going out and paying over MSRP for a car or paying 700k for a house that was 300k 3 years ago.

I'm guessing there's other people making a lot of money some other way off this whole shit. Maybe it's crypto scams or ppp loan scams or something... still seems like it would have to be a lot of people to have such an effect on the market. I feel left out.

[zx10guy]

Well, when you have a massive dump of free/cheap money into the economy, this is one of the side effects. Along with what was going on with the labor market and the advent of 72 and 84 month car loans.

I've never paid MSRP for any of the vehicles I've purchased to include my recent purchase of my 2022 BMW S1000RR. I was willing to go MSRP on the RR for personal reasons outside of being financially prudent. But MSRP was the line I wouldn't cross.

I hated that my mom had to pay MSRP for her 2022 Nissan Rogue Sport. But we had no choice as she NEEDED a car and not wanted one to YOLO it up. Her Jeep Liberty Sport had a catastrophic engine failure. And we only got this car at sticker because I had connections otherwise we were staring at a $3k mark up.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That's the thing. I get some people got FU money and don't care. Fine. Those people existed even before this crazy car market. However how did apparently everyone get enough FU money to be paying ridiculous prices for "normal" cars. I mean I don't think anyone looking at a civic is cross shopping with a 911. Even the C8 is still going for over MSRP used. I get that we had the chip shortage and what not, but at this point I feel the manufacturers are in on it. Many of them have been raising prices and I'm sure they like selling less vehicles and making more $$.

American household debt is skyrocketing and financial savings are lowest in 30 years. Basically...Jim/Cathy down the street with new 7series and Escalade, getting a new pool installed are in debt up to their eyeballs. A lot of Americans are living off credit cards right now. Revolving debt is up nearly 30%. More people are living paycheck to paycheck than ever before(last report I saw was 63%). The "keeping up with the Jones" mentality is running rampant.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm in the market, I would consider myself an "average" guy, middle-upper middle class. I certainly didn't become rich between 2020-2022.

How much money does the average person have in the market? Google is all over anything from 40k to 200k. Let's say it's 100k. Even if the market doubled that's 200k... personally if I woke up with an extra 100k in the bank tomorrow I'm still not going out and paying over MSRP for a car or paying 700k for a house that was 300k 3 years ago.

I'm guessing there's other people making a lot of money some other way off this whole shit. Maybe it's crypto scams or ppp loan scams or something... still seems like it would have to be a lot of people to have such an effect on the market. I feel left out.

Middle or upper middle class aren't the bulk of people buying new Porsches. The people with a lot of money made a lot more.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by chris719

Middle or upper middle class aren't the bulk of people buying new Porsches. The people with a lot of money made a lot more.

Sure, but my original point is why are "normal" cars also ridiculously priced? Why are "cheap" houses not cheap anymore. The people with a lot of money who made more money are not buying single family starter homes or civics etc. Also I would imagine those people could have afforded the 911 even before all this.

The only thing that would make any sense to me is everyone going YOLO as stated in previous posts.

[mecheng77]

Porsches have become snob cars, they command too much money even in the used car market. BMW gives you 9/10ths the driving experience, are more practical, more reliable and easier to work on.

Case in point comparisons:

Cayman vs M2
M5 vs Panamera
X3M vs their small SUV whatever it’s called again

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Porsches have become snob cars, they command too much money even in the used car market. BMW gives you 9/10ths the driving experience, are more practical, more reliable and easier to work on.

Case in point comparisons:

Cayman vs M2
M5 vs Panamera
X3M vs their small SUV whatever it’s called again

This sounds like a post written by someone that’s never actually driven the cars and is doing comparisons based on numbers in a magazine. lol

What makes them “snob cars” exactly? If anything, Porsche has done more to please their enthusiast customers than any other brand and it’s not particularly close.