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      01-25-2023, 04:59 PM   #23
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      01-25-2023, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Porsche should be ashamed of themselves for making SUVs.
You should be ashamed of yourself for posting nonsense. No Porsche SUV? You'd have no more new Porsche anything.

Same for a lot of brands.

Also, for example, the V6/4 banger Mustangs, Camaros etc keep the V8 variants alive.

Get with it. We all find some cars boring, ugly, slow, whatever. We just don't buy those models.
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      01-25-2023, 07:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Porsche should be ashamed of themselves for making SUVs.
I agree in theory but SUVs are a necessary evil. I applaud Porsche for at least making every one of their products still have that Porsche DNA. Their sports cars are still world class and not watered down.

I'm more upset at Porsche for their obscene pricing, ADMs, and limited allocations to get into one of their sports cars.
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      01-25-2023, 09:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
When you try to be something to everyone you ultimately sell the company's soul and lose site of the brand.

Porsche and Lambo SUVs are freaking glammed up Audi SUVs. Sure, you can make an SUV performance machine, but why? I just don't get it. I shake my head in disappointment at BMW, Porsche, Lambo, Audi, etc. for making these lifted glorified station wagons and sedans with crap utility and worthless off-road capability. But as you're implying, there's always someone waiting there cash in hand to buy one of the vehicles and that someone likely cares next to nothing about the driving experience and is more interested in the emblem on the hood.
Why? Because that’s what people want as evidenced by their sales. The SUVs are the #1 seller for them. Seems pretty simple. You’d be surprised at the off-road capability of a Cayenne, not that 98% of buyers are taking it off road. They literally made an off roading 911! I mean come on, do you see BMW making M3 off roaders?

As evidenced by the GT cars, the Sport Classic, the Dakar, and the continued supremacy of the 911 in the sports car world, I’d say they’re doing plenty to keep the enthusiasts happy. Far better than any other German brand and it’s not even particularly close.
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      01-26-2023, 01:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I agree in theory but SUVs are a necessary evil. I applaud Porsche for at least making every one of their products still have that Porsche DNA. Their sports cars are still world class and not watered down.

I'm more upset at Porsche for their obscene pricing, ADMs, and limited allocations to get into one of their sports cars.
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      01-26-2023, 04:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I agree in theory but SUVs are a necessary evil. I applaud Porsche for at least making every one of their products still have that Porsche DNA. Their sports cars are still world class and not watered down.

I'm more upset at Porsche for their obscene pricing, ADMs, and limited allocations to get into one of their sports cars.
The irony is they are now producing more 911's than before supply chains were interrupted. US market just has far more demand for the product that they can produce. So there is year+ long waitlists. Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, Taycan(base) are now easy to acquire allocations.
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      01-26-2023, 06:14 PM   #29
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The irony is they are now producing more 911's than before supply chains were interrupted. US market just has far more demand for the product that they can produce. So there is year+ long waitlists. Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, Taycan(base) are now easy to acquire allocations.
Well unfortunately for me I could care less about driving one of those models
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      01-26-2023, 07:53 PM   #30
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Not sure how anyone can hate on this car. Porsche makes amazing sports cars and also one of the fastest SUVs on the planet. What exactly is the issue?
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      01-26-2023, 07:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Not sure how anyone can hate on this car. Porsche makes amazing sports cars and also one of the fastest SUVs on the planet. What exactly is the issue?
Because people never drive them. They “know” what they like.

I’d bet anyone $100 bucks that if I took them for a ride in this thing, they’d be giggling within 30 seconds.
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      01-26-2023, 08:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
Because people never drive them. They “know” what they like.

I’d bet anyone $100 bucks that if I took them for a ride in this thing, they’d be giggling within 30 seconds.
Because people think their manual 328i from 2007 is the only true driver's car on the planet and nothing else will suffice.
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      01-27-2023, 10:06 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by DM5PAV View Post
It looks nice and having just driven a Porsche SUV for a week I can say I greatly enjoyed how comfortable, relaxing, and luxurious the drive was.

It also nearly put me to sleep on many occasions. It’s not a driver’s car. It’s not a car. I tried pushing it, and while it wasn’t a high performance model it did have sport chrono… it was not for me.

It’s an excellent way to cruise however.
Extremely luxurious. I would rather be a passenger than a driver of these.
Yea well, this is a Turbo and that’s like saying you tried a 530i and found it too soft. This is like an M car. Better than, actually.
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      01-27-2023, 02:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM5PAV View Post
It looks nice and having just driven a Porsche SUV for a week I can say I greatly enjoyed how comfortable, relaxing, and luxurious the drive was.

It also nearly put me to sleep on many occasions. It’s not a driver’s car. It’s not a car. I tried pushing it, and while it wasn’t a high performance model it did have sport chrono… it was not for me.

It’s an excellent way to cruise however.
Extremely luxurious. I would rather be a passenger than a driver of these.
I turo'd a base spec Macan and experienced all the same things in your first paragraph , but none of the second. It had a boat anchor engine but the chassis and suspension were on point and it happily ate corners and did things it ought not do with it's huge sidewall tires.

In short: I had fun with a base macan. I just drove a base x2 yesterday and wanted to kill myself.
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      01-27-2023, 03:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM5PAV View Post
Yea, but it’s not though.
It’s an suv. It’s not a car. It doesn’t matter how fast it goes, it’s still an suv.
I’ll assume you’ve driven one. So let’s talk about what makes something an SUV. Is it weight? A BMW i4 M50 weighs more than this Porsche.

Is it right height? Perhaps. But this Turbo pulls more G on a skid pad than a BMW M5. So it doesn’t seem to hurt it.

Perhaps it’s stamina. The Turbo has 17-inch front brakes. That’s enormous. They do not fade.

So yes, it’s absolutely an SUV. But it drives as well as any car I’ve driven.
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      01-27-2023, 03:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM5PAV View Post
Yea, thanks for assuming I’ve driven one.


Idk why you are trying to convince me Porsche makes good vehicles. I agree.
It’s not a car though
That’s really the end of it for me.

It’s nothing at all like driving a sports car. You can make it go as fast as you want, make the suspension as stiff as a board, and lower it as much as possible… and it still will not nearly capture the fun of a base cayman, not for me anyway.

I wouldn’t consider a BMW m5 to be a sports car, or even a g80 m3 for that matter. Those are luxurious and sporty family cars or passenger vehicles.

The driving position in an actual sports car like the 911, or even a gr86, is what it is. And an suv isn’t it. You’re starting from an impossible position because if you wanted a sports car… you’d just get one.

An SUV is always going to fail at being a sports car. I’d rather drive a mt Honda civic or a gr86, or a BMW M3 for fun than a Porsche suv. Considering the m3, it’s about as close to suv as I want to get. It’s fairly large, fits 5 people, has a lot of trunk space… between it and a Macan there’s not a large difference in space, I just tested that out recently. But as the driver I will have more fun in an m3

I like Porsche SUV. Very luxurious, very nice ride. Fast and looks nice inside and out. But, was also boring to drive.

In general suv make little sense, l’d rather than that Porsche take a Ford F150 or maybe even a Bronco if I desperately wanted something that looked like an suv. At least the bronco’s roof comes off.
I never said it was a car. I said it drives like one.

It’s not a 911. Not sure how old you are, but a 911 isn’t really practical for family needs. So, when the day comes to pick up the kids from school, ease the turbo out of the garage, grab the children, and take the back roads home.

I’d bet you my M3 (you know, not a sports car), that you have a smile on your face in 30 seconds.
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      01-27-2023, 07:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM5PAV View Post
I have a family.
I found that all suv are boring vehicles, including the Porsche. They aren’t for me. If I want a truck, I want a real truck.

If I want a car, I want an actual sports car, or a family car like an m3.

There’s nothing about the suv that appeals to me anymore, after owning multiple small and large ones.

They are all compromises and if you can afford to have / store multiple vehicles… don’t make a lot of sense to me.

But, we each like what we like.
Clearly many agree with you.
They are the best selling Porsches by a country mile.
If you think SUVs are boring you should try out a 392 wrangler with the top and doors off. Monster engine and sound, pulls like crazy. Easily one of the best sounding stock exhausts on any car, amplified by the minimal sound deadening and top open. When I use the remote start it scares the shit out of people. Awful aerodynamics but a hell of a lot of fun especially in naked form. And you can off road it just about anywhere completely stock. It’s not a sports car though, that’s for sure.
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      01-28-2023, 03:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
If you think SUVs are boring you should try out a 392 wrangler with the top and doors off. Monster engine and sound, pulls like crazy. Easily one of the best sounding stock exhausts on any car, amplified by the minimal sound deadening and top open. When I use the remote start it scares the shit out of people. Awful aerodynamics but a hell of a lot of fun especially in naked form. And you can off road it just about anywhere completely stock. It’s not a sports car though, that’s for sure.
The 392 cherokee hellhawk-thing that raced with us at autocross was kind of a joke. It DID sound good, but it handled like crap and then broke an axle. It just wasn’t meant to be raced over and over…like a porsche. That guy got a macan and hasnt looked back.

Of course…for “pulling” they make EVs now.
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      01-28-2023, 03:37 PM   #39
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So far no mention of the Cayenne’s significant lux cruiser capabilities. Air suspension and full leather interior deliver long-distance comfort, which adds to the already well-known excellent cornering ability and power levels.
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      01-29-2023, 07:58 AM   #40
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Not sure how anyone can hate on this car. Porsche makes amazing sports cars and also one of the fastest SUVs on the planet. What exactly is the issue?
It's not an SUV. It's a bloated and lifted, bedazzled, seriously heavy midsize all wheel sedan with shifty rear rear headroom. Yeah, it's got a ton of motor, acceleration, and luxury, but there's nothing "utility" about it. This thing has less passenger volume than our 2015 Outback 3.6r and half the cargo capacity. My M235's trunk only has 5 cubic feet less cargo space than this "Porsche".

17" and 16" brake rotors? Yeah, because that very fast monstrosity somehow weighs more than my wife's body on frame, real truck, 2020 4runner, thus needs all that braking power to haul it down.

The expenable running cost on this silly thing will be outrageous as goes for most of these other silly so called SUVs.

Last edited by XutvJet; 01-29-2023 at 08:12 AM..
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      01-29-2023, 08:17 AM   #41
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So far no mention of the Cayenne’s significant lux cruiser capabilities. Air suspension and full leather interior deliver long-distance comfort, which adds to the already well-known excellent cornering ability and power levels.
Add grippy tires, brakes, and suspension tuning and you can make most anything handle, even something with terrible dynamics like excessive weight, high roll center, etc.

It is hilarious that Porsche touts the use of a titanium exhaust to cut out 40lbs from this 5ķ pound lifted all wheel drive sedan.
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      01-29-2023, 04:33 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
It's not an SUV. It's a bloated and lifted, bedazzled, seriously heavy midsize all wheel sedan with shifty rear rear headroom. Yeah, it's got a ton of motor, acceleration, and luxury, but there's nothing "utility" about it. This thing has less passenger volume than our 2015 Outback 3.6r and half the cargo capacity. My M235's trunk only has 5 cubic feet less cargo space than this "Porsche".

17" and 16" brake rotors? Yeah, because that very fast monstrosity somehow weighs more than my wife's body on frame, real truck, 2020 4runner, thus needs all that braking power to haul it down.

The expenable running cost on this silly thing will be outrageous as goes for most of these other silly so called SUVs.
Next time, please do not hold back in telling us how you really feel.
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      01-29-2023, 04:42 PM   #43
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I will never understand these coupe-like SUVs.
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      01-29-2023, 06:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Add grippy tires, brakes, and suspension tuning and you can make most anything handle, even something with terrible dynamics like excessive weight, high roll center, etc.

It is hilarious that Porsche touts the use of a titanium exhaust to cut out 40lbs from this 5ķ pound lifted all wheel drive sedan.
If I may, your 4Runner can weight up to 4,800lbs depending on how it’s equipped, just 200 lbs less. And if you’re going off-road, buy an off-road trunk.

Performance SUVs are silly, but wagons do not sell here. I feel like we had our chance and voted with our wallets.

As for running costs, obscene sure, but at over 200k, owners won’t care.

And hey, driven in a vacuum, as an engineering achievement, the car is amazing. “Coupes” are weird, but SUVs are practical, and if you have the money, why not.
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