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      09-17-2019, 08:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The administration doesn't have a chance in hell to revoke this authority. .
You're wrong bc this curtails interstate commerce..hide and watch.
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      09-17-2019, 08:13 PM   #24
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These emissions standards on the one hand have created some of the most strict emmissions standards in the world. Especially in regards to the oil industry and refining. That being said it had destroyed the diesel automobile market.

Will vw bring back the tdi once the (very retarded) emissions control systems are no longer a requirement?

Go talk to a trucker about how expensive these systems are. One would wish that such emissions control systems were a requirement in order to control the amount of CO coming out of a gasser cars arsehole.

I understand where this is coming from on an industrial scale and i get its validity. But some aspects do not have a firm grasp on reality.
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      09-17-2019, 08:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
https://theconversation.com/why-cali...answered-94379


Check your sources when it comes to the Supremacy Clause

Suggest you also read this 2014 Huffington Post opinion.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state...9?guccounter=1
Maybe you should read an article that was actually written by lawyers.

https://litigation.findlaw.com/legal...reemption.html

"But in the absence of federal law, or when a state law would provide more protections for consumers, employees, and other residents than what is available under existing federal law, state law holds."

Preemption is not based on rights.

Edit: Some more reading, with examples regarding CA pollution standards.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ma...remacy-clause/

Last edited by schoy; 09-17-2019 at 08:37 PM..
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      09-17-2019, 08:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Maybe you should read an article that was actually written by lawyers.

Edit: Some more reading, with examples regarding California pollution standards.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ma...remacy-clause/

https://litigation.findlaw.com/legal...reemption.html

"But in the absence of federal law, or when a state law would provide more protections for consumers, employees, and other residents than what is available under existing federal law, state law holds."

Preemption is not based on rights.
If the law only effects intrastate
The agreement they made effects interstate which is a violation of interstate commerce and is usurping federal national environmental standards
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      09-17-2019, 08:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
https://theconversation.com/why-cali...answered-94379


Check your sources when it comes to the Supremacy Clause

Suggest you also read this 2014 Huffington Post opinion.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state...9?guccounter=1
Maybe you should read an article that was actually written by lawyers.

https://litigation.findlaw.com/legal...reemption.html

"But in the absence of federal law, or when a state law would provide more protections for consumers, employees, and other residents than what is available under existing federal law, state law holds."

Preemption is not based on rights.

Edit: Some more reading, with examples regarding CA pollution standards.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ma...remacy-clause/
You should have read your links more closely

1) The preemption doctrine derives from the supremacy clause of the Constitution, which states that the "Constitution and the Laws of the United States…shall be the supreme Law of the Land…any Thing in the Constitutions or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law—even a regulation of a federal agency—would control over any conflicting state law.

2) As previously stated multiple times, CARB limits rights, not expands, so you are interpreting that the incorrect way.

3) Note to your references. States had to abide by Federal Guidelines on tobacco. States could not limit rights making it stricter.
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      09-17-2019, 09:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
States Rights !!!!! .....oh wait. Uhhh..hmmm Oh look over there! It's a squirrel!
+10000000000

Being a republican is all about having no principles and bending everything you believe to just hurt a democrat lol.

Or to say it more nicely republican = extreme hypocrite at all times. I don't even listen to anything they say anymore they are totally useless.

They want bakers to have the right to deny cakes to ppl but twitter can let chose who to ban. Lol. They want states rights unless its California doing something. Lol

At this point if I ever want to know why a principled person would say about something I look at what crazy republicans say and think the complete opposite
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      09-17-2019, 09:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
+10000000000

Being a republican is all about having no principles and bending everything you believe to just hurt a democrat lol.

Or to say it more nicely republican = extreme hypocrite at all times. I don't even listen to anything they say anymore they are totally useless.

They want bakers to have the right to deny cakes to ppl but twitter can let chose who to ban. Lol. They want states rights unless its California doing something. Lol

At this point if I ever want to know why a principled person would say about something I look at what crazy republicans say and think the complete opposite
Fyi interstate commerce falls under federal government jurisdiction which per the constitution is not a republican or democrat issue, it just enforcing the core laws of our nation.

As for your other points i already debunk them in the other topics which you then ran away and refuse to reply because you know you put your foot in your mouth.
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      09-17-2019, 09:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
+10000000000

Being a republican is all about having no principles and bending everything you believe to just hurt a democrat lol.

Or to say it more nicely republican = extreme hypocrite at all times. I don't even listen to anything they say anymore they are totally useless.

They want bakers to have the right to deny cakes to ppl but twitter can let chose who to ban. Lol. They want states rights unless its California doing something. Lol

At this point if I ever want to know why a principled person would say about something I look at what crazy republicans say and think the complete opposite
Fyi interstate commerce falls under federal government jurisdiction which per the constitution is not a republican or democrat issue, it just enforcing the core laws of our nation.
Add that to the list of things crazy republicans do. They are all constitutional experts. No scratch that they are experts on everything when they are behind a keyboard. Lol
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      09-17-2019, 10:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Add that to the list of things crazy republicans do. They are all constitutional experts. No scratch that they are experts on everything when they are behind a keyboard. Lol
Look at the crazy things the leftists do. It used to be said that in america the streets are paved with gold. Well the leftists (especially in san francisco) have changed it. The sidewalks are not layered in gold. They are layered in Shit.
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      09-17-2019, 10:05 PM   #32
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oh come on guys. states allow illegals to stay and get driver's licenses; nothing to see here
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      09-17-2019, 10:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Add that to the list of things crazy republicans do. They are all constitutional experts. No scratch that they are experts on everything when they are behind a keyboard. Lol
Look at the crazy things the leftists do. It used to be said that in america the streets are paved with gold. Well the leftists (especially in san francisco) have changed it. The sidewalks are not layered in gold. They are layered in Shit.
Or blood. Just ask kate steinle's family.
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      09-17-2019, 10:13 PM   #34
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Is this a precursor for state gun control laws?
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      09-17-2019, 10:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Or blood.
Thats chicago
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      09-17-2019, 11:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Thats chicago
Na according to our disconnected from reality friend, Chicago has roving bands of Maga wearing hat homophobic/racist tidy sailor who are carring their favorite items of rope and bleach.
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      09-17-2019, 11:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
You're wrong bc this curtails interstate commerce..hide and watch.
Total BS. I work in the environmental regulatory world. While I depise working on environmental compliance projects based in CA because there are so many different rules compared to most other states, I appreciate the fact that states are allowed to strengthen federal environmental regs as they seem fit to manage known or perceived risk to human health and environment in their state.

The individuals that shape environmental regulation in CA are not a bunch of tree hugging hippes and Sierra Club members. The people are freaking smart as hell and I'd venture to say smarter than many of those framing federal environmental rules. I work with CA environmental regulators. They are without a doubt an extremely smart and we'll educated bunch.

If automakers don't want to meet or can't meet the CA rules, then they don't have to sell cars in the CA. People in CA lose, the state loses revenue, and so do automakers. That's when the groups can bargain and negotiate. Thing is, the CA regulators understand the science and capabilities of the auto industry. They just don't pull these numbers out of the sky and hope for the best. They are founded in technological feasibility and cost considerations.

Trump is only doing this because he loves sending FUs to Obama and CA democrats and is appeasing his base. Thing is, he doesn't understand that industry has already been planning for all the rules he has been dismantling or trying to dismanlte. Environmental stewardship is a real thing to business and industry is starting to send the FUs back to Trump.
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      09-18-2019, 12:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Na according to our disconnected from reality friend, Chicago has roving bands of Maga wearing hat homophobic/racist tidy sailor who are carring their favorite items of rope and bleach.
You dont say...
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      09-18-2019, 01:28 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You should have read your links more closely

1) The preemption doctrine derives from the supremacy clause of the Constitution, which states that the "Constitution and the Laws of the United States…shall be the supreme Law of the Land…any Thing in the Constitutions or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law—even a regulation of a federal agency—would control over any conflicting state law.

2) As previously stated multiple times, CARB limits rights, not expands, so you are interpreting that the incorrect way.

3) Note to your references. States had to abide by Federal Guidelines on tobacco. States could not limit rights making it stricter.
Just to be clear, you wrote, in Post #4: "Without getting too far into the weeds, State laws only prevail over Federal if the State law gives the public MORE rights, NOT LESS rights, as would be the case in the above."

My point was solely to rebut your statement. Again, the application (and exceptions to the application) of the Supremacy Clause has nothing to do with rights.
I'll lay it out for you in simple terms.

Rights for CARB laws were carved out in DC 60 years ago.

If California could do as they please with stricter laws, they did not need that to happen....or all the subsequent waivers since that time.

Drop Mike. Goodnight everyone. Have a safe drive home.
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      09-18-2019, 08:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
+10000000000

Being a republican is all about having no principles and bending everything you believe to just hurt a democrat lol.

Or to say it more nicely republican = extreme hypocrite at all times. I don't even listen to anything they say anymore they are totally useless.

They want bakers to have the right to deny cakes to ppl but twitter can let chose who to ban. Lol. They want states rights unless its California doing something. Lol

At this point if I ever want to know why a principled person would say about something I look at what crazy republicans say and think the complete opposite

This is true for anyone with a political agenda regardless of party affiliation.
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      09-18-2019, 08:36 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
The problem with your argument, is that both sides of the equation can argue "more rights".

The more stringent regulations gave California citizens "more" rights to clean air, "more" rights less pollution, and so forth.

Not saying I don't agree with you, just playing devils' advocate. Bottom line, though, is that I don't really have a problem with CARB. States can choose to be as nuts as they want. Folks can choose to move. This is why I don't live in CA or any other liberal bastion.
More importantly, where in the Constitution does it grant the Fed Gov this authority over a State Gov?
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      09-18-2019, 08:39 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
States Rights !!!!! .....oh wait. Uhhh..hmmm Oh look over there! It's a squirrel!
Right?
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      09-18-2019, 08:50 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
I'll lay it out for you in simple terms.

Rights for CARB laws were carved out in DC 60 years ago.
They were... Which also means 60 years of precedent, and results, showing CARB works.

As was pointed out above; the automakers are already on board with CARB as well; they agree with Cali on this, so Trump doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Even if he does attempt this, auto makers don't have to make their cars more polluting just to "meet" his idiotic rollbacks, they can just keep building to CARB standards and he loses either way.

There is no path to victory on this one for Trump, it's nothing but grandstanding for his base.
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      09-18-2019, 09:07 AM   #44
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The interstate commerce angle might be valid. Will trucks originating in another state not be allowed in to CA without meeting the state's emission standards? or is it just vehicles sold in CA?
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