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      04-04-2018, 03:01 AM   #1
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The (anti) EPA ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.dbe515002af0


I honestly don't follow much political BS. I have no dog and they wouldn't listen if I did.
The thing I'm a bit scared of is this,
If they start rolling back laws (or are they rules), will they forget that those same laws helped convict VW over 'dieselgate' ... which is still ongoing with the rest of the European diesel makers.
If they do, then wouldn't you think VW will sue the US and have a good case to do so. It'd really look like we where pushing a political agenda to sell US diesel vehicles.
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      04-04-2018, 06:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.dbe515002af0


I honestly don't follow much political BS. I have no dog and they wouldn't listen if I did.
The thing I'm a bit scared of is this,
If they start rolling back laws (or are they rules), will they forget that those same laws helped convict VW over 'dieselgate' ... which is still ongoing with the rest of the European diesel makers.
If they do, then wouldn't you think VW will sue the US and have a good case to do so. It'd really look like we where pushing a political agenda to sell US diesel vehicles.
Regulations are not laws. They normally did not get establish by elective members meaning the public had no way to give input or had the ability to have party involve answer for bad policy or laws.
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      04-04-2018, 09:50 AM   #3
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I think there are a few problems here, diesel emissions being just one. VW and the whole dieselgate thing was certainly a problem, but in my mind the way diesel emissions are handled is pretty ridiculous.

Diesel emissions for new vehicles are so strict, that owning one has begun to make no financial sense. What VW did was wrong, no doubt, but saying the vehicles shouldn't be on the road was stupid. Those VW TDI's are so much cleaner than many of the other perfectly legal diesel vehicles that are on the roads today.

A friend of mine has a Chevy Duramax pickup truck that has been modified with an EFI live tuning system. The truck has tons of power, but will also blow black smoke like a freight train at the push of a button. The only laws concerning his truck are it can't smoke at idle. It passed emissions with flying colors last year. Tons of these trucks are on the road, yet nothing is checked or enforced. Some states do check that emissions equipment is in place, others don't. It makes no sense that in one state, you need to have yearly inspections and tests for working equipment, and in a neighboring one you can chop all of it off with a sawzall.
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      04-04-2018, 10:58 AM   #4
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There's a lot of misinformation going around about these regulations. This post by Spa2k gives some good information about the original plan for how the regulations would be reviewed and implemented, how they were expedited by the Obama administration and locked in with no further review, and how this "roll back" is really just reverting back to the original plan.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=6

More discussion in this thread as well: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1482324
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      04-04-2018, 11:25 AM   #5
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Folks,

Spend a little time with the Administrative Procedures Act. I've have also paste a link to the rule making process

https://www.federalregister.gov/uplo...ng_process.pdf
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      04-04-2018, 01:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
I think there are a few problems here, diesel emissions being just one. VW and the whole dieselgate thing was certainly a problem, but in my mind the way diesel emissions are handled is pretty ridiculous.

Diesel emissions for new vehicles are so strict, that owning one has begun to make no financial sense. What VW did was wrong, no doubt, but saying the vehicles shouldn't be on the road was stupid. Those VW TDI's are so much cleaner than many of the other perfectly legal diesel vehicles that are on the roads today.

A friend of mine has a Chevy Duramax pickup truck that has been modified with an EFI live tuning system. The truck has tons of power, but will also blow black smoke like a freight train at the push of a button. The only laws concerning his truck are it can't smoke at idle. It passed emissions with flying colors last year. Tons of these trucks are on the road, yet nothing is checked or enforced. Some states do check that emissions equipment is in place, others don't. It makes no sense that in one state, you need to have yearly inspections and tests for working equipment, and in a neighboring one you can chop all of it off with a sawzall.
Clearly not.
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      04-04-2018, 01:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Clearly not.
Just wait until they’ve been through the yet-to-be announced “reconditioning” program at the VW dealers. The prices will be low, and they’ll make excellent second cars or kid cars for people who want to put up with a diesel.

Get on the waiting list soon, because only about 300,000 are still available.

Last edited by Spa2k; 04-04-2018 at 05:58 PM.. Reason: I shouldn't type when I'm on the phone... Yikes.
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      04-04-2018, 03:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
Not then, but they certainly are now after they’ve been through the “reconditioning” program at the VW dealers. The prices are low, and they’d make excellent second cars or kid cars for people who want to put up with a diesel.

Make your deal soon, because only about 300,000 are still available.
I think the problem was VW couldn't cost effectively fix the issue, and the cars had to be destroyed.
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      04-04-2018, 05:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
There's a lot of misinformation going around about these regulations. This post by Spa2k gives some good information about the original plan for how the regulations would be reviewed and implemented, how they were expedited by the Obama administration and locked in with no further review, and how this "roll back" is really just reverting back to the original plan.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=6

More discussion in this thread as well: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1482324


I didn't make it all the way through. Once the blanket finger pointing starts I just tune out.



And I guess I get what I expected to get from this, 'we're amercians and we'll do what we want'. big trucks *tool time grunting
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      04-04-2018, 05:31 PM   #10
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Even with the "roll backs" there are still fuel efficiency and emissions regulations that automakers must meet. The VW TDIs would have still been subject to those regulations and would still have failed tests when not in "test mode". Basically, the standards are going to get a little bit tougher through 2021, and after that is up for review. They may level off, they may get slightly tougher, or they may get a lot tougher, but I highly doubt they'll get any easier.

Interestingly enough, those initially tough fuel economy regulations had an interesting effect in the US considering current and near-term projected fuel prices. The MPG requirements calculated by the EPA are far from what you'll actually see on the road, but they also take into account vehicle size. The initial regs made it so that compact and mid-size cars had demonstrate large increases in fuel economy, while full-size cars and trucks needed smaller increases. With current customers demand favoring larger vehicles, and stricter regulations, some companies (Chrysler) decided to stop producing compact and mid-size cars! They still make money, and still meet the regulations, but their overall fuel economy will likely stay the same or even get slightly worse!
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      04-04-2018, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I think the problem was VW couldn't cost effectively fix the issue, and the cars had to be destroyed.
The owners of third-generation ones can choose to have them fixed and keep them. Last I heard, the government said VW must remove the ECU, diesel oxidation catalyst or diesel particulate filter, which effectively makes them parts cars - or VW must crush them into coffee-table bases. The negotiations between VW and the government seem to be continuing. While it's not totally unreasonable, considering the situation, this all seems like a terrific waste, since the cars could be fixed for sale somewhere.
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      04-04-2018, 07:38 PM   #12
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just a thought here but perhaps EPA and CARB have become larger than necessary... similar to unions within industries. in the beginning they were there for a positive cause and giving voice to mouths that typically had suggestions that fell on deaf ears but now just like unions these groups have become larger and more influential and they too are part of the problem not the solution.
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      04-05-2018, 08:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
just a thought here but perhaps EPA and CARB have become larger than necessary... similar to unions within industries. in the beginning they were there for a positive cause and giving voice to mouths that typically had suggestions that fell on deaf ears but now just like unions these groups have become larger and more influential and they too are part of the problem not the solution.
That doesn't sound right at all.
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      04-05-2018, 09:31 AM   #14
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i agree. the main focus is to work towards a greater good and create balance.
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      04-05-2018, 04:50 PM   #15
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i agree. the main focus is to work towards a greater good and create balance.
Balance for who?
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      04-05-2018, 05:24 PM   #16
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in regards to unions? balance between employer and employee. unions have outgrown corporations and have the ability to cripple them instead of help both the sides. unions have destroyed more corporations than they have helped. this isn't depression era USA anymore where the employer is being exploited and there aren't unions, OSHA, benefits or other things that now get bundled into expenses.
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      04-07-2018, 02:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
in regards to unions? balance between employer and employee. unions have outgrown corporations and have the ability to cripple them instead of help both the sides. unions have destroyed more corporations than they have helped. this isn't depression era USA anymore where the employer is being exploited and there aren't unions, OSHA, benefits or other things that now get bundled into expenses.
This isn’t based in fact. At all.
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      04-07-2018, 02:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
This isn’t based in fact. At all.
https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/sites/defa...ik%20FINAL.pdf

Research says something a bit different. Legacy costs are an increasing problem.
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      04-08-2018, 04:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
This isn’t based in fact. At all.
prove me wrong.
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      04-09-2018, 08:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/sites/defa...ik%20FINAL.pdf

Research says something a bit different. Legacy costs are an increasing problem.
Yeah, but that's not agreeing with the conculsion he reached either.

Quote:
The financial burden of pension and retiree healthcare promises to current and former
public employees is huge for many state governments.
Even as reforms are enacted, the costs of
these promises will continue to put a squeeze on public budgets, consume larger proportions of
tax revenue, and constrain governments' ability to provide goods and services to their residents...

The empirical analysis shows strong support for our hypotheses. Republicans spend less
on OPEB in states where public sector union membership is lower and the unions are
consequently weaker politically....
IE, states where unions are weaker spend less on benefits for union members, specifically Healthcare and pension.

Nothing here that's groundbreaking or news, and it certainly doesn't support the opinion that it hurts "gowth" or how "growth" of a said company is good for everyone else (and not the employees who are not benefiting)
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      04-09-2018, 08:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
prove me wrong.
In what capacity? I just said you made a claim that wasn't based in fact, and it looks like I right.
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      04-09-2018, 09:03 AM   #22
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you stated i am factually incorrect. show me where unions have helped business, corporation or industry.
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