Thoughts on Cayenne as alternative to 5 series

[Tk718]

Hi everyone. For those who had a Cayenne S or drove for extended time. Can you comment how it compares to a m550i?
I realize they are in different groups but many reviews comment how well the Cayenne handles , and I’m wondering if it’s a better package than my m550i? I like the utility it has , but how is it day to day ? I’m trying to decide if I should keep my car after Lease , or get something that as good plus has utility. Thanks

[pbonsalb]

I have a 21 Cayenne S and 18 M5. Night and day difference, but the Cayenne is pretty good for an SUV. It is for my wife. I tried to buy a GTS with the detuned B8 but she said it sounded like a truck. I put a JB4 on the S, but honestly the GTS felt like it had little to nothing on the S during my 60-110 highway testing. I was really surprised by that. 24 Cayenne S models have the detuned V8 instead of the V6 if you are looking at new.

Our S does not have any handling options other than 20” wheels and PASM. A GTS would have more stock and you can spend a bunch optioning more if you want the best handling 5000 lb SUV possible. If it was for me, it would be a Turbo with handling options since I like power. You could tune the GTS if warranty is not a concern.

Power wise you are carrying extra weight with less power so acceleration will be slower, even with a Turbo. Maybe acceleration is not that important to you and it won’t matter. I love it so I want as much power as reasonably possible and have tuned my M5. Stock 21 S with Sport Chrono has been tested at 109 in the quarter. A 21 M550ix did 119 — big difference.

[chassis]

I have a MY20 Cayenne S and love it. It is my daily driver.

Good power, handling, comfort, space (size), fuel economy and reliability (so far).

My car has almost all options except Burmester audio, rear axle steer, active stabilizer bar and active rear diff. Leather interior and air suspension are must-haves according to those who have them, and I agree.

The base Bose audio system is quite good. There is a good thread in rennlist where posters agree that wired connection and a lossless high quality audio source is needed for best results. This applies to all audio systems, the point is that the Bose is good if you feed it good data on a wired connection.

Cayenne 21” wheels with air suspension is a far more plush and supple ride than my prior MB with 20” wheels and steel springs.

The Porsche CPO program is great if you don’t buy new. A one year old CPO has has 5 years of warranty coverage: 3 years remaining original warranty + 2 years CPO warranty. This is more coverage than buying new. I bought my MY20 with 4 years of included warranty: 2 years original warranty + 2 years CPO. It’s a great deal imo.

Finder.Porsche.com is how I found my car 2,400 miles from where I live. Cesar Caceres at Burlingame CA Porsche was great to work with. I bought the car sight unseen (photos obv) and wired cash which arrived at the dealer 2 hours after clicking the “send” button.

[Tk718]

Thank you for the great information. The m5 is a much more capable than m550i and is probably much sportier than Cayenne, I was thinking that the Cayenne may be a good alternative to the m550i , but with air suspension may be even more comfortable yet sporty. Of course I would prefer m5 since we have another suv in family , but worried about ride quality on terrible city potholes.

That’s a great looking Cayenne, Btw

[gblansten]

I had an X5M in between M5’s and enjoyed the hell out of it. I had never had an suv before. The Cayenne would be a good way to scratch that itch.

[c1pher]

I traded my 17 Macan Turbo for a 20 Cayenne Turbo Coupe. I really liked it from a luxury and comfort perspective. And it had crazy power and somehow stayed flat in every corner….perplexing. In the end, I traded it in on a 23 Macan GTS because it was just a little too big for me. I preferred and missed the cozier feeling of the Macan and didn’t feel like I lost much cargo space for my needs especially due to the sloping roof line.

[gatorfast]

I have a Cayenne S and it’s a fantastic all around car that really does everything well. Very roomy and comfortable yet handles better than any SUV should. More than enough power to get into trouble and engine/exhaust sound good (though a bit quiet).

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Tk718

Thank you for the great information. The m5 is a much more capable than m550i and is probably much sportier than Cayenne, I was thinking that the Cayenne may be a good alternative to the m550i , but with air suspension may be even more comfortable yet sporty. Of course I would prefer m5 since we have another suv in family , but worried about ride quality on terrible city potholes.

That’s a great looking Cayenne, Btw

If you want more power and have the budget, a Cayenne GTS or Turbo is the way to go. With air suspension, a GTS or Turbo is arguably the best vehicle on the road with its level of performance, comfort and utility.

My S cold start with sports exhaust, sounds nice but V8 GTS and Turbo sound nicer!

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Tk718

Of course I would prefer m5 since we have another suv in family , but worried about ride quality on terrible city potholes.

Supposedly later M5, at least the competition models, but maybe all, have revised strut valving that improves the ride. Worth looking into. If you specified 19” wheels for their added sidewall, the ride would be as good as it can be for the M5. And the performance is nothing short of thrilling.

Probably an M550i with 19” wheels and an active suspension that uncouples sway bars would still ride better. The newer M550i apparently do as well as 122 in the quarter, which is not that far off the M5’s 129.

Cayenne, any model, with air suspension and the option that disconnects swaybars when not needed (people say swaybars do nothing when traveling in a straight line but I have noticed on other cars that installing stiffer swaybars seems to make potholes worse), plus 19” or at most 20” wheels (I like 20” for the added tire width — I have 19s for snows) will ride well. If you want acceleration close to your M550i, though, you need the Turbo model or a GTS with tune.

[GTS Daddy]

The MY24 Cayenne is a not-needed but welcome upgrade to the MY23 Cayenne. The aesthetics are more in-line with the 911 from the front. Most of all, the dynamics are the largest area of improvement. Steering and chassis dynamics are a generation ahead of the MY23 which is saying a lot. More compliant and more communicative. Happy to provide more in-depth info and next steps if you would like to DM me.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by GTS Daddy

The MY24 Cayenne is a not-needed but welcome upgrade to the MY23 Cayenne. The aesthetics are more in-line with the 911 from the front. Most of all, the dynamics are the largest area of improvement. Steering and chassis dynamics are a generation ahead of the MY23 which is saying a lot. More compliant and more communicative. Happy to provide more in-depth info and next steps if you would like to DM me.

What are the main chassis and dynamics changes for .2? I didn’t think there were many.

2-chamber air suspension on .2 is claimed by Porsche to be a step forward, others including myself call it a cost cutting step backwards compared with 3-chamber on .1. What else changed for .2?

[Mautofied17]

I currently have a 2019 Cayenne Turbo that I am replacing with an M3.

The Cayenne is a phenomenal vehicle. Coming from an S4, I was amazed at how nimble it is, especially for an SUV of that size. Stupid powerful and build quality is top tier. Extremely comfortable - my road trip vehicle of choice.

However, the service network sucks. Unless you bought it from your servicing dealer and/or have a long term relationship with them, you're screwed. Even simple items I needed fixed were not covered under the bumper to bumper warranty. Escalated to Porsche North America and (after jerking me around for a month) they also told me to kick rocks.

Personally, I'm not in the position to spend that much money on a vehicle without support. Being a tool junkie, I view Porsche much like I do Snap-on - great product that is ruined by it's horrible customer service.

[pbonsalb]

Porsche service costs are ridiculous, even by BMW standards. BMW gives you 4 years of free maintenance, not that they do much for maintenance. Porsche gives you the 10k mile service. Expect to pay about $1k for each of the 20k and 30k services and much more for the 40k service. Not that the service consists of any more than BMW does, which again isn’t much. And you pay a 25% premium in purchase price compared to BMW.

But I liked the 21 Cayenne S more than the 21 X5 40i MSport so I paid the extra money. If cost is not really too much of a concern, buy the Porsche. I do think it’s a better car. I did not buy a Panamerica instead of an M5 because it cost a lot more, was bigger and heavier, did not perform quite as well in terms of acceleration (though it probably handles slightly better), and there aren’t many of them so repairs and maintenance would likely be even more than for the Cayenne. I like to do my own work and maintain/repair/mod the M5 but felt I might be limited as to what I could do on the Panamerica. There is little support for DIYers with late model Porsche.

I did nearly buy a 991.2 911 Turbo. Expensive, but nothing else like it. And it is probably the most reliable and serviceable supercar. Might still buy one.

[GTS Daddy]

Originally Posted by chassis

What are the main chassis and dynamics changes for .2? I didn’t think there were many.

2-chamber air suspension on .2 is claimed by Porsche to be a step forward, others including myself call it a cost cutting step backwards compared with 3-chamber on .1. What else changed for .2?

Drive one and you will understand. It's easy to make claims on paper and on the internets. The std PASM is now as compliant as the previous gen PASM w/air. The steering is light but more direct without feeling twitchy. The turn-in from the front end is what really blew my mind. It goes with exuberance in whatever direction you choose.

Think of it as a comparison from the 991.2 GT3 to the 992 GT3's steering. Nobody said there was anything wrong with the 991.2's steering, but when you drive the 992, you get why they did it.

I'll be heading to E3.2 training mid-August in Dallas of all places. I will have more insight then.

Not to say the E3.2 is the angels godly solution to the SUV when compared the the E3, but from a driving dynamics and IMHO outwardly aesthetic, it's a step in the direction of progress and as well all know, the Porsche ethos.

[G30M]

how does Cayenne compare with X5 M50i?

[chassis]

Originally Posted by GTS Daddy

Drive one and you will understand. It's easy to make claims on paper and on the internets. The std PASM is now as compliant as the previous gen PASM w/air. The steering is light but more direct without feeling twitchy. The turn-in from the front end is what really blew my mind. It goes with exuberance in whatever direction you choose.

Think of it as a comparison from the 991.2 GT3 to the 992 GT3's steering. Nobody said there was anything wrong with the 991.2's steering, but when you drive the 992, you get why they did it.

I'll be heading to E3.2 training mid-August in Dallas of all places. I will have more insight then.

Not to say the E3.2 is the angels godly solution to the SUV when compared the the E3, but from a driving dynamics and IMHO outwardly aesthetic, it's a step in the direction of progress and as well all know, the Porsche ethos.

Thanks. What specifically changed in the vehicle? PASM as I assume you already knew is related to shocks (dampers) only and compliance does not relate to shocks. Do you mean springs?

Porsche is usually pretty good about touting their "upgrades". Is there a media slide presentation or press release you have in mind?

Otherwise there are no chassis upgrades for .2 that I am aware of aside from the step backwards with the 2-chamber air suspension.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Porsche service costs are ridiculous, even by BMW standards.

Indeed, they are; ridiculous even by MB standards. The good news is that the Cayenne specifically and Porsches generally are easy to DIY regular maintenance: oil, filters, brakes, battery (if AGM). Different procedures than a 1985 Ford F-150, to be sure.

Panamera requires front fascia removal to change the engine air filter. Who cares? The car is built to accommodate that service procedure and it's easy once the steps have been learned. Cayenne requires half the induction system to be removed to change the oil filter. Who cares? It's easy, just takes a bit longer than a 1995 Honda Civic.

If DIY is not an option, Porsche maintenance is expensive.

Owning with a warranty addresses the cost for non-maintenance repairs, if needed, as it does for any brand like BMW, MB, etc.

Owning a Porsche out of warranty is eye-wateringly expensive if one does not DIY.

Originally Posted by SickStroke6.0

However, the service network sucks.

Not disagreeing with your experience. Adding that Porsche dealerships follow the money: consider where they are generally located. Multiple dealers are found in large metro areas, and the dealers are located in the highest income neighborhoods. Same with Ferrari dealers. They know who they are catering to.

Medium- and small-metro areas or cities will suffer as regards higher end vehicle parts and service support. That would be a known factor if one lives in such an area, prior to buying a car that needs dealer or specialist indy shop support. Living rural outside of a small or medium non-metro city is a difficult scenario to be a higher-end car owner that does not DIY.

Medium- and small-cities do not have the economic base (money) to support high end car dealerships so the support network in these ares "sucks", if it means there might not be a dealer in a particular city of interest.

[dreamingat30fps]

Can't compare those specifically, but I do have a base Cayenne and I rented a regular 5 series (I believe it was a 540i). Now given that the 5 series was a rental and may have been beat up... I would take the Cayenne over the 5 series all day. Now the M sport 5 may have different suspension, but the one I got was VERY soft. Honestly the Cayenne felt way sportier and more planted than this particular 5 series.

I think the transmission was better on the 5. Much smoother, I find the transmission on the Cayenne a bit rough even compared to the Macan. The 5 definitely had a smoother over all drive, but did not feel sporty at all.

Anyways just go drive both and see what YOU think.

[Tk718]

I might rent a Cayenne on Turo for a day and see what it’s all about.

[chassis]

Cayenne Ss with the new (for the trim level) V8 are arriving at dealers now. If your budget allows, try a MY24 S. Base model is great, S is greater!

[Germanauto]

This discussion reminds me of why I wish Porsche had produced a compact or midsize ICE sport sedan, something in the $70k price range.

The Porsche SUVs are great...for SUVs. They're still gonna feel heavy and understeer-y when you try throwing them into corners. They can't replace sport sedans for driving enthusiasts. They are however enjoyable enough if you aren't the type of person looking to go 10/10s into every turn

As the same time, it's not like the 5-series has been a canyon carving driver's car since 2009 either.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

This discussion reminds me of why I wish Porsche had produced a compact or midsize ICE sport sedan, something in the $70k price range.

The Porsche SUVs are great...for SUVs. They're still gonna feel heavy and understeer-y when you try throwing them into corners. They can't replace sport sedans for driving enthusiasts. They are however enjoyable enough if you aren't the type of person looking to go 10/10s into every turn

As the same time, it's not like the 5-series has been a canyon carving driver's car since 2009 either.

A 3-series to the next level?