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      02-05-2016, 09:38 AM   #23
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To me, it's like vinyl and CD era
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      02-05-2016, 09:46 AM   #24
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Like the Porsche 918!
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      02-05-2016, 09:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
So in other words, today's Tesla P85D is the BMW M of the future? Get with the times BMW.
Having large HP and torque for the straights is half the fun, and frankly, the easy thing to do. I'm waiting for a Tesla to handle like an M5. And the M5 could easily have the power that the Tesla has.
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      02-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
So in other words, today's Tesla P85D is the BMW M of the future? Get with the times BMW.
LOL, as if a tesla was faster than a current M...
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      02-05-2016, 09:56 AM   #27
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I don't mind the hybridization of ///M Cars in the future, even if they add only a couple of batteries. What I do mind is them killing the visceralness of the internal combustion engines that they do put into future ///M cars. Turbo engines DO NOT have to sound bad, but they usually do. The Alfa Guilia is a perfect example of a Turbo Engine sounding amazing. You want to make the next M5 with a hybrid assist drivetrain? That's fine. Just be sure to include an internal combustion engine with it that can rev to at least 8,000rpm. It is still totally possible to design a turbocharged engine that has even lower CO2 output and lower fuel consumption than today's ///M engines and still be able to include a high redline with those engines. I just know that ///M won't do this though, and this is what kills future ///M cars for me.
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      02-05-2016, 10:04 AM   #28
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All of you complaining how the exhaust sounds now is going to hate the future...get prepared! This is one thing about electric I do not like.
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      02-05-2016, 10:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattar
Like the Porsche 918!
Exactly
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      02-05-2016, 10:22 AM   #30
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We don't give a shit about lap times. The day they remove a manual option and an m3/4 weighs over 3800 lbs is the day I switch to a new brand. Hybrid cars are inevitable if you're lazy.
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      02-05-2016, 10:22 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I certainly hope not. If 4700lb monsters are what BMW will build I will stop buying them

P90D S is not the car of an enthusiast. It has 'insane' straightline acceleration which is cool for drag races, yet completely different than what a car enthusiast is looking for which is a good driving experience
The M5 and M6 are not that far behind. Tesla wasn't necessarily trying to reduce weight like BMW will do with the new M. I think BMW can make it work if they forgo some of the luxury/safety features that come on the Model S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipMPower View Post
Having large HP and torque for the straights is half the fun, and frankly, the easy thing to do. I'm waiting for a Tesla to handle like an M5. And the M5 could easily have the power that the Tesla has.
Completely agree with this, but I was talking about the motor. Tesla has already proven you can make a lightning fast environmentally friendly sedan, now BMW just needs to slap that technology onto a better chassis and suspension.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NOITALL View Post
LOL, as if a tesla was faster than a current M...
You realize the top end Model S goes 0-60 in 2.8 seconds right?
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      02-05-2016, 10:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
The M5 and M6 are not that far behind. Tesla wasn't necessarily trying to reduce weight like BMW will do with the new M. I think BMW can make it work if they forgo some of the luxury/safety features that come on the Model S.

But include all this weight saving technology, and leave out the hybrid crap, and you would have a beautiful lightweight car that is fun to drive! Lighter weight means better handling, better braking, better acceleration AND better fuel economy.

Colin Chapman must be turning in his grave right now.

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      02-05-2016, 10:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOITALL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
So in other words, today's Tesla P85D is the BMW M of the future? Get with the times BMW.
LOL, as if a tesla was faster than a current M...
I think the p85d finally cracked an 8:50 around the Nurburgring...9 minutes was the bar set by the p85+. So they're making progress. Only a full minute left to beat a car with 400 less hp (m2)...

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      02-05-2016, 10:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mattar View Post
Like the Porsche 918!
And its cost
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      02-05-2016, 10:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Inevitable. Which is why BMW are developing Power eDrive.
Would it be feasible to bring back the fun, high revving N/A engines? With electric power, you'd get the benefits of turbos with the exception that you get max torque from the electric motor instantly. So you could have the high revving N/A motor to simply provide that sort of feeling that N/A engines provide.
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      02-05-2016, 10:44 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
You realize the top end Model S goes 0-60 in 2.8 seconds right?
Cars tend to have to go faster than 60 mph.
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      02-05-2016, 10:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Im not a retro grouch by any means but i would rather that hypothetical 3400lb with batteries car be a 3000lb without batteries car. And why go back to Na 3.0L? Keep the s55. 420whp and 3000lb. Thats more like it!

Keep the batteries in i division but keep bringing over the lightweight tech please.
As much as I love NA engines, there is no way that they will build a hybrid NA car. It would be amazing, as can be seen with the 918 and the LaF. But BMW haven't built an NA engine in years. It wouldn't make any sense anyway, you would have higher consumption and emissions, which is the opposite of the hybrid effect. There are two problems with turbo engines. Throttle response and sound (I don't like the harsh power delivery either but that can be controlled like ferrari does with the 488). The throttle response can be done very well, like the S55 and S63, and especially with the electric boost. But noise can't be done so easily.

And there is no way BMW will develop a new NA engine for a hybrid just because of the noise.
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      02-05-2016, 10:53 AM   #38
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That means no more rear wheel drive....we'll probably get something like the i8 where the rear wheels are powered by the combustion engine and the front wheels powered by a battery pack. The up side to this is more traction....
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      02-05-2016, 10:56 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPe90M3 View Post
Cool. They lost one customer here.
If you're such a purist, then why are you driving an M car with turbos and EPS? Things change, just saying.
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      02-05-2016, 11:00 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Inevitable. Which is why BMW are developing Power eDrive.
I believe Scott26 or one of the moderators posted news on this a few months back that the board members at BMW already decided that the next M3 is going to be a hybrid after much back and forth deliberation.

I just hope that weight does not increase past the current M3's ~3540lbs curb weight. Hopefully another ~150lbs of weight loss is possible through light weight materials to offset the hybrid drivetrain.

Needless to say, the steering feel will be worse with power being channeled through the front wheels.
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      02-05-2016, 11:00 AM   #41
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How can it be that bad. If electric motors can eliminate turbo lag and add more power without l much weight I say go for it.
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      02-05-2016, 11:15 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob24ert View Post
Who wouldn't want electric motors to prime your turbo so there is 0 lag, like in F1
If the car's going to be turbocharged then let it feel turbocharged. I actually love the small amount of turbo lag in my 340i, the tradeoff for a small moment of lag is a stronger top end and the rush of acceleration as boost builds is always fun as long as you aren't waiting several seconds (anyone who has driven big turbo Evos, Supras, etc. will know what I mean). It'll be intersting to drive a turbo car with electric assist, I've never had the pleasure of driving a McLaren P1 so I don't know how that feels but I'm sure it's exciting in a different way.
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      02-05-2016, 11:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Ultimate Driving MACHINE, not Ultimate Driving Software.
We've already missed that boat...

Dont get me wrong. I love my M4 I really do.

But the "ultimate driving machine" was more likely the E30 M3...

Thats why I still have my 94 Turbo Supra 6spd It is still a very raw machine and very very little "software" assistance.
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      02-05-2016, 11:31 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Would be interesting if they can figure out how to do it without added weight. Hate to see the cars made totally out of CF just to maintain weight and still have it top out at 3300-3500lbs. Just think about how much a typical M3 would cost then.
^ This. All that CF added to the manufacturing process would add $$ to the car's sticker not to mention to the cars insurance premium. I keep wondering why the 3300-3400lb weight number is the holy grail to hit. I'd think aluminum would be cheaper to use than CF. Insurance costs would still bump up though.
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