Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-20-2015, 10:01 AM   #89
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
390
Rep
4,572
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bols View Post
This thing needs to be RWD! So much potential looks wise!
Pretty sure the 2019 G20 3-series will be just the thing you're looking for.
Nah. The F30 is already too large. The G-based 3-series will be even larger.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | JPN 240 ECU flash | Euro LCI taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:02 AM   #90
phoenixbmwlife
Brigadier General
phoenixbmwlife's Avatar
United_States
969
Rep
3,514
Posts

 
Drives: M235i & G30 540i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boynton Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW/M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGAV13
If they made an M2 version of this I'd be all over it.
Do you really want a FWD M car?
__________________
Lack of money is not the problem. It is merely a symptom of what's going on inside of you! - T Harv Eker

Follow me on IG https://www.instagram.com/phoenixbmwlife/
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:04 AM   #91
IEDEI
Banned
United_States
1079
Rep
4,693
Posts

 
Drives: L'Orange
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW 1M  [4.20]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You do realise that BMW as well as Mercedes-Benz and Audi in Europe are just car companies, albeit Premium but we offer basic specification or in America's case economy specification on the best selling BMWs. I think the Compact Sedan is very much about taking risks its a car that travels furtherest from its initial BMW comfort zone specifically for BMWs no 1 market for sales China.
It has a definite market target and demographic, its youthful, yet sporty and fits in well with the other BMW sedans in the portfolio.
I think forums like this are split amongst those of us who yearn for the 'old school' BMW and those who have bought X model SUVs and modern F series cars who don't mind the idea of 'modern' BMWs.

I have not seen BMW step out of their comfort zone at all, actually. Maybe the i3 and i8 are the closest things to stepping out of their comfort zone. I mean the i3 is RWD, and futuristic as hell. I don't think a UKL platform FWD sedan is in any way taking a 'risk'. If anything BMW are simply following what Audi and Mercedes have done. Since when did BMW follow everyone else?? They used to never do that. At all!!!

I think BMW thought that if Mercedes can go FWD, we can too......it's a "me too!!!!" syndrome. Pretty sad...
Appreciate 2
      11-20-2015, 10:05 AM   #92
CARTOON
Il dio li benedice tutti.
CARTOON's Avatar
United_States
62
Rep
86
Posts

 
Drives: GEN V Viper
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

I like it. Only drawback would it being FWD.
__________________
Some good ones.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:06 AM   #93
MightyMouseTech
Major General
MightyMouseTech's Avatar
3349
Rep
5,300
Posts

 
Drives: 13 135i 6MT LeMans Blue MSport
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Pretty sure the 2019 G20 3-series will be just the thing you're looking for.
And the size of an older 7 series. No thanks.

Apparently BMW thinks people who like small cars don't care about performance.
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 10:07 AM   #94
M3 Adjuster
Lieutenant General
M3 Adjuster's Avatar
Albania
7806
Rep
11,602
Posts

 
Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
Do you really want a FWD M car?
Dollars to donuts they sort this into a rear drive chassis.. because M2 Grand Coupe
__________________
ALWAYS BET ON BLACK!
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter Ex-president (retired 2017) , Chief Driving Instructor - LIFETIME Member # 119366
If you don't STAND for something.. you'll FALL for anything
Past: 1991 BMW E30 M3 street car ; 1988 BMW E30 M3 track car -
Appreciate 2
      11-20-2015, 10:09 AM   #95
Manbnda
Second Lieutenant
56
Rep
259
Posts

 
Drives: F30 AW
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MX

iTrader: (0)

BMW needs to establish a solid language for the rear lights, capable of transcending generations, just like they did with the front lights. Otherwise there's always the risk of ending looking like a hyundai from certain angles.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:09 AM   #96
FilipMPower
Second Lieutenant
FilipMPower's Avatar
Serbia
103
Rep
256
Posts

 
Drives: Anything with a locking diff
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Europe, mainly Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
This is a UKL car, so yes, non-xDrive models will be FWD.

I think this really looks great. I am wondering if this is going to be branded as a 1 Series or 2 Series. If the latter, I would expect it to be referrred to as a Gran Coupe, though it doesn't necessarily look the part. This is still a concept though, so we'll see.

Although what we enthusiasts all really want a sub-3 RWD sedan, I think this car still has potential to be great even sitting on the UKL chassis. However a performance-focused AWD system (like the one you'd find used for an EVO X, for example) is absolutely essential. If they limit this to a proper M model, well, so be it, but it needs to be there for this to have any sort of winning value proposition against a WRX or Focus RS. Well I suppose it will have the WRX beat handily in the looks department in any case.

Highly anticipating what the inevitable S48 engine will bring to the table as well. The Mercedes M133 has the bar set very high.

Non-xdrive models are FWD too, at least more FWD than AWD. Ive said it before, Haldex=FWD + some torque split under certain conditions.
__________________
Owned: E60 M5, E71 X6M
Own: E65 745i, F06 M6 GC
Probably will own: M235i or Jag F-type
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:17 AM   #97
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
4963
Rep
18,218
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
Do you really want a FWD M car?
I don't dream about them at night, no. But you can build a great AWD performance car on a FWD chassis (including the transverse engine and all), as proven by Mitsubishi with the EVO (among others).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Dollars to donuts they sort this into a rear drive chassis.. because M2 Grand Coupe
Not at all likely. The next generation M2 coupe, convertible, gran coupe, and any other form factor BMW thinks they can sell will be AWD (unless hell freezes over).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipMPower View Post
Non-xdrive models are FWD too, at least more FWD than AWD. Ive said it before, Haldex=FWD + some torque split under certain conditions.
Well, sure if you want to debate semantics, but I personally don't have time for that so I'll call it AWD.

Furthermore Haldex is only one way to do AWD. An EVO, for example, does not use a Haldex system.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:19 AM   #98
ynguldyn
Colonel
2630
Rep
2,043
Posts

 
Drives: battery powered tv on wheels
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
If you do want then you need to be heard, I mean really heard it should be ricocheting of the walls in Munich not like the Hamster squeak in a cookie tin that seems to be for an M2 Cabrio.
That hamster squeak, on the other hand, seems to have produced some real results.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:21 AM   #99
SamS
Major General
SamS's Avatar
United_States
753
Rep
6,165
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Nah. The F30 is already too large. The G-based 3-series will be even larger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
And the size of an older 7 series. No thanks.

Apparently BMW thinks people who like small cars don't care about performance.
We don't know that the G20 will be larger than an F30. For certain, the G20 will be lighter.

I think you're overestimating the market for E46 sedan-size high-performance market. I would guess this new 2-series sedan will end up with a 300hp version, but of course nothing on the level of M2/M3. It's simply a demand-driven market. Yes, people are demanding sedans bigger than the E36, and want more room than an E91 had. Wish is why M3s are as big as they are, and the next X3M/X4M will be hot sellers for BMW.
__________________
2018 X3 M40i - current
2016 M3 - sold
2013 ActiveHybrid 3 - sold
2012 M3 coupe - sold
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:21 AM   #100
ynguldyn
Colonel
2630
Rep
2,043
Posts

 
Drives: battery powered tv on wheels
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I'm willing to bet that US sales are all but a foregone conclusion at this point. Well, unless the four door (or perhaps, five door) 2 Series coupe likely to arrive later on is offered in the US market instead of this car rather than in addition to it.
F52 is NOT a U.S. vehicle at this point. 4/5 door RWD 2 series doesn't exist at all.

My horizon is 2+ years.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:23 AM   #101
thorsen82
New Member
3
Rep
24
Posts

 
Drives: bmw 320d
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: parma italy

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Its part of the ongoing strategy to have around 20 UKL based cars under BMW and MINI in which projection estimate that total sales of compact cars under UKL will be around 600,000 units for the Entire group.

The plan is to extend the 2er family allowing for the 1er to be more city orientated.

There will be surprises on the way to determine the balance.
It is initially intended for sale and manufacture in China. But they are developing the car for global response should the strategy change but early results are very promising in regards to initial reaction.
This car could also hypothetically receive a MINI twin which might have more global appeal without conflicting with a BMW 3er.

If you do want then you need to be heard, I mean really heard it should be ricocheting of the walls in Munich not like the Hamster squeak in a cookie tin that seems to be for an M2 Cabrio.
So you're saying that all the cars under 3er will be based under ukl? And the 2er ? And Bmw's ceo comments on keeping 2er coupe rwd?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:24 AM   #102
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
4963
Rep
18,218
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
That hamster squeak, on the other hand, seems to have produced some real results.
That'll be a neat car, if true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
F52 is NOT a U.S. vehicle at this point. My horizon is 2+ years.
I am thinking more like 4 to 5 years.

Quote:
4/5 door RWD 2 series doesn't exist at all.
No surprise at all with that one. Any hope of that died years ago.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:25 AM   #103
YungDro
Major
1024
Rep
1,161
Posts

 
Drives: -
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
UKL is a front drive, transverse engine/transaxle platform.
oh okay ty but is it like 100% confirmed its going to use UKL?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:27 AM   #104
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
4963
Rep
18,218
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorsen82 View Post
So you're saying that all the cars under 3er will be based under ukl?
Hello and welcome to 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YungDro View Post
oh okay ty but is it like 100% confirmed its going to use UKL?
No, not 100% until the first press release comes out. Let's put it this way - at this point I'd put the chances of it being RWD equal to the chances of it being driven by the two left wheels, two right wheels, or two at opposing corners.
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 10:29 AM   #105
SamS
Major General
SamS's Avatar
United_States
753
Rep
6,165
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
F52 is NOT a U.S. vehicle at this point. 4/5 door RWD 2 series doesn't exist at all.

My horizon is 2+ years.
So they'll go the route of the E84? I think BMW should try to get an F52 into the US market before the G20. Otherwise, might be some cannibalization and/or confusion.
__________________
2018 X3 M40i - current
2016 M3 - sold
2013 ActiveHybrid 3 - sold
2012 M3 coupe - sold
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:30 AM   #106
Ramos
Colonel
Ramos's Avatar
645
Rep
2,728
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 M235
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: So-Cal

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
I will post live photos later.
Intended for China only for now its reaction will determine its availability in other markets, including popular sedan markets like the USA and India.
The concept in exterior and interior is around 90% production reality once the conceptual accessories are removed.
It is a UKL car but available with xDrive and also eDrive.
The car utilises many design features found within a BMW Sedan. Such as a three dimensional character-line and pronounced wheel arches as well as the typical dynamic roof line.
An M Performance model is considered using the upcoming engine that will be featured on the BMW X1, X2 and the MINI Clubman,Countryman and Countryman Coupe.
So the decision has been made for the next 2er to be FWD ?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:31 AM   #107
SamS
Major General
SamS's Avatar
United_States
753
Rep
6,165
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YungDro View Post
oh okay ty but is it like 100% confirmed its going to use UKL?
Yepper:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1048752
__________________
2018 X3 M40i - current
2016 M3 - sold
2013 ActiveHybrid 3 - sold
2012 M3 coupe - sold
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 10:36 AM   #108
M3 Adjuster
Lieutenant General
M3 Adjuster's Avatar
Albania
7806
Rep
11,602
Posts

 
Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I'm willing to bet that US sales are all but a foregone conclusion at this point. Well, unless the four door (or perhaps, five door) 2 Series coupe likely to arrive later on is offered in the US market instead of this car rather than in addition to it.



That would be the ~300hp B48, possibly taking over the soon-to-be-vacated *35 badge.



No more sub-3 Series RWD vehicles (except the i3, if you think of it as below the 3 Series). The 1 and 2 Series models that are RWD today will move to UKL for the next generation and beyond.



Logically it should be a 1 Series, but when you consider the UKL MPVs are badged as 2 Series, anything is possible.



As far as the timing of the concept debut, I completely agree with you. We had no advance warning as far as I am aware. But the fact that a 1 Series sedan introduction is imminent has been no secret - spy shots have been caught over a year ago:

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031527

Now whether the concept specifically previews the car we've seen driving around is perhaps left for some debate. There will likely be a 2GC as well, and who knows what else they could cook up. A 1 Series equivalent of the 3 and 5 GT models is also possible, assuming all of this form factor spit-balling (well, I am sure there's more to it than that - but it seems that way sometimes) doesn't cease soon and leave a smaller, cleaner product lineup

It's not out of nowhere.. you guys have been missing the clues..
Scott 26 posted a query and a photo of a possible sedan a month or so and then also there was a poll created asking where it should be a sedan or a 5 door..

plus... I have also noticed and noted that suddenly.. X1 (and X2) production were moved from Leipzig to Regensburg ... to me that sounds like gearing up for another platform to be produced there.. A platform that will need a lot more volume than say... 2 series coupe production.


Remember the E8x series.
The E82 1 series coupe came out several years after the 1 series hatch models. With the competition coming strong to the market with the CLA, the Audi S3 sedan... BMW has to respond... they are WAY LATE... but should be able to catch up...
__________________
ALWAYS BET ON BLACK!
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter Ex-president (retired 2017) , Chief Driving Instructor - LIFETIME Member # 119366
If you don't STAND for something.. you'll FALL for anything
Past: 1991 BMW E30 M3 street car ; 1988 BMW E30 M3 track car -
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:38 AM   #109
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
4963
Rep
18,218
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
So they'll go the route of the E84? I think BMW should try to get an F52 into the US market before the G20. Otherwise, might be some cannibalization and/or confusion.

I think from a marketing perspective, they will want to lead with the G20 in the US. Indeed, yes, just like they held the E84 X1 back to let the higher margin F25 X3 build sales first.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:39 AM   #110
M3 Adjuster
Lieutenant General
M3 Adjuster's Avatar
Albania
7806
Rep
11,602
Posts

 
Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I don't dream about them at night, no. But you can build a great AWD performance car on a FWD chassis (including the transverse engine and all), as proven by Mitsubishi with the EVO (among others).



Not at all likely. The next generation M2 coupe, convertible, gran coupe, and any other form factor BMW thinks they can sell will be AWD (unless hell freezes over).



Well, sure if you want to debate semantics, but I personally don't have time for that so I'll call it AWD.

Furthermore Haldex is only one way to do AWD. An EVO, for example, does not use a Haldex system.
Agree with you that an AWD system in a 2 series coupe would work.
I still remain buoyed that there are many years of 2 series production left and It's not that hard to bring out some additional variants ala the 3 series GT... and 4 series gran coupe.. which are based off the 3/4 platform.
__________________
ALWAYS BET ON BLACK!
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter Ex-president (retired 2017) , Chief Driving Instructor - LIFETIME Member # 119366
If you don't STAND for something.. you'll FALL for anything
Past: 1991 BMW E30 M3 street car ; 1988 BMW E30 M3 track car -
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST