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      08-29-2015, 11:26 AM   #265
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So like a 3 legged dog? Can be nice but you kind of feel bad for it.
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      08-29-2015, 12:05 PM   #266
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Hell yeah, If it looked good and performed good I would certainly take a deeper look at it. BMW has lost my blind dedication.

For a long while now BMW has been making it's way on brand loyalty and BMW prestige. They certainly have not been making it on value or quality.

For the most part, BMW particularly the high end ones, are not worth owning past 50K miles or after the warranty expires. My parents on the other hand have been driving their Hyndai's unabated for several 100 thousand miles.

BMW's are brilliant cars, performance wise, but if another brand closes that gap then why not be open to looking?
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      08-29-2015, 12:50 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
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Originally Posted by TK427 View Post
N stands for Not M.
Technically, /\/ is an /\/\ with a leg missing.
That sounds about right.
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      08-29-2015, 10:17 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberschnell View Post
Hell yeah, If it looked good and performed good I would certainly take a deeper look at it. BMW has lost my blind dedication.

For a long while now BMW has been making it's way on brand loyalty and BMW prestige. They certainly have not been making it on value or quality.

For the most part, BMW particularly the high end ones, are not worth owning past 50K miles or after the warranty expires. My parents on the other hand have been driving their Hyndai's unabated for several 100 thousand miles.

BMW's are brilliant cars, performance wise, but if another brand closes that gap then why not be open to looking?
Couldn't agree more, esp the 2nd bolded sentence.

Only short-sighted ppl would diss a brand just because supposedly it's of a 'lower' standing...and thanks to these brand snobs, that's why BMW can continue to get away w/ charging more for less. Apparently these ppl think that's a good thing.

Hyundai has made amazing strides since their Pony. I've always like their Veloster and overall styling for their cars.
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      08-30-2015, 05:57 PM   #269
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Best post on this tread so far!
Unfortunately, badge snobiness is strong on this forum. What they are blind to realize is that even if they don't ever buy a Hyundai car, this is actually a good news for the BMW loyalist. Just think if Hyundai came out with a $40k 450hp RWD car that drive decent. Don't you think that the next M3, BMW would be forced to make the next M3 significantly more power than today and more standard features for $80k?


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Originally Posted by norsairius View Post
Good for them. I don't understand the negativity when a "sub-par" brand wants to try something (I, for the record, do not consider Hyundai "sub-par"). At worst, I'm neutral in such situations. If you look at the bigger picture, when companies compete, the consumer always wins.

Even if the cars can't match BMW on the "total package" with things like interior quality, etc., as long as the cars drive competently and are fun, then I could see enthusiasts who emphasize the experience over the badge cross-shopping these. Many will see the price/other nuances as a great compromise.

If these "N" cars don't end up competing with BMW, it's at least another company trying something to show that there's a market for fun cars and as long as that market is proven to exist, then automakers will continue to be motivated to make those fun cars for us gearheads.

At worst, they flop and it won't make any real difference to what you drive anyway. I doubt it'll be this bad though considering their hiring of BMW's (now former) M-division chief engineer.

If Hyundai's proven anything in the last 10 years, it's that they know how to turn a ship around. Think about how their brand perception and quality has changed in that time frame.

Even if you don't like Hyundai, you still win. I'm anxious to see what they come up with, but I'm going to wait and see before I make any further judgments.
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      08-30-2015, 06:04 PM   #270
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This is good news. Look at the bigger picture it will keep everyone on their toes plus the bigger companies will have to be conscious about pricing
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      08-30-2015, 10:50 PM   #271
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Hyundai used to have alot of feature for its money. But not anymore.
Go check out prices on their cars. They are equal or higher than Japanese/American cars.
Also their 10 year 100k mile warranty is hit or miss. It really depends on dealership. One dealership will honor warranty and one will not.
I bought 2013 Sonata for parents. We are regreting the purchase.
Its been to dealership over 10 times in 2 years.
We should've bought Camry or Accord.

Oh I don't think N division is going to compete M division.
I think they are going to compete sports version of low and mid end cars(ie civic SI, WRX, etc)

Also Kia is also copying BMW by building 2 different versions of K5(optima) in 2016.
Sports and non sports. IMO looks just like M-tech and regular in BMW series.
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      08-31-2015, 09:33 AM   #272
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I think this is great news---the more performance options on the market, the better it is for everyone (enthusiasts, that is!). I have no problem with Hyundai as a brand. Although I have an M, my SO has a Hyundai Tucson. We looked at a lot of different vehicles before she went with the Tucson--including a VW Tiguan, Acura RDX, and BMW X3. Those were definitely nice vehicles, but for her, not being into cars, the Hyundai was the perfect option. She doesn't want to deal with cars that need a lot of maintenance or have questionable reliability. She didn't want to deal with $100+ oil changes or tires/brake replacement costs that are not far off the price of a legit beater car. We've owned Tucson going on 5 years and almost 96k miles. It's had 2 unscheduled trips to the dealer, which is still pretty decent, IMO.

Now can hyundai offer something that's engaging to drive? I think so, but they need to be willing to let the engineers do their thing--as well as having the right engineers. Although I think anyone can make a powerful engine these days, there's still a bit of a challenge in the chassis side of things--and Hyundai, especially, has had a difficult time getting chassis tuning just right. Although, I think the Tucson is a great device for transportation, the suspension tuning is WAY too stiff for what it is. It rides like it's trying to be a mini Macan, but the actual handling and steering is not much better than average.

I applaud the company for committing to products with a bit more performance--I like the genesis coupe, but it's now officially old. As is it's prime competitor, the 370z. Hyundai is in a great position to leap ahead of the Z and go its own way.
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      09-09-2015, 03:17 PM   #273
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To me it has got nothing to do with brand loyalty that makes me laugh at this. It's how much of a blatant rip off the idea is. If you're making a capable product than do it on your own. I mean even the colors, and N? what the hell is that?? sure the genysis sedan is impressive for it's price point. But you can't say you're better than German companies and say they're pretentious, and on the other hand copy them to an undeniable degree. Kinda like saying, hey you shouldn't date that guy because he's a douche and then show up the next day with his clothes, haircut and tattoos.
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      09-18-2015, 04:31 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster View Post
To me it has got nothing to do with brand loyalty that makes me laugh at this. It's how much of a blatant rip off the idea is. If you're making a capable product than do it on your own. I mean even the colors, and N? what the hell is that?? sure the genysis sedan is impressive for it's price point. But you can't say you're better than German companies and say they're pretentious, and on the other hand copy them to an undeniable degree. Kinda like saying, hey you shouldn't date that guy because he's a douche and then show up the next day with his clothes, haircut and tattoos.
Thing is (sorry if this has been mentioned before), this is EXACTLY what Toyota aimed for when it launched Lexus (and Nissan followed soon after with Infiniti, and to a lesser extent Honda with Acura) -- luxury German manufacturers. Lexus has been on par with them since the LS series blew the automotive world away in the early 1990s. Now, there are snobby Lexus owners aplenty.

So: Don't discount Hyundai, which has revolutionized specific auto market segments a few times, as well as other industries (shipbuilding comes first to mind). There's no reason why it can't do whatever the hell it wants over time, and well. That Veloster variant already makes for a formidable rally car, and the i20 looks like a beast.

(And yes: marque snobbery is for those that tend toward laziness, elitism, and closed-mindedness. IMHO.)
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      09-21-2015, 10:50 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipMPower View Post
I doubt that Hyundai N will really compete with BMW M, probably it will compete with Honda Type R, Skoda RS and OPC Opel.

And having a rear camera standard is all fine and dandy, but does Hyundai have a system as sophisticated as iDrive? And in the future, carbon fibre in their chassis? Are the engines better than BMWs? BMW R&D doesnt fool around, they invest in the real expensive innovations, and that is a part of the cost difference between BMW and Hyundai.
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Christ, this is embarrassing. I am physically cringing reading many of these replies. No wonder bmw owners have such a bad reputation.
Agreed.

Funny how the BMW community will respond when Hyundai actually puts out a competition car to the M. Wonder how many people know how much Hyundai as a company actually generates. They're the 2nd largest steel processor out of Korea and their motor division is one of the top SUB branches. Bringing on the top of M division was the first move and now it's time for R&D. Money not being an issue to a company like Hyundai shouldn't stay low key for too long.

There's a lot of people swaying away from the 3 series to hop into a Sonata or a Genesis and the 7 series to an Equus. They get more for their money as not everybody is in to performance.

Now that they've taken care of that market, they're targeting the performance side with the EX head of M division.

Don't recommend bashing on the competition because without the competition, you wouldn't be in the car you're in now.
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      09-24-2015, 02:43 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Thing is (sorry if this has been mentioned before), this is EXACTLY what Toyota aimed for when it launched Lexus (and Nissan followed soon after with Infiniti, and to a lesser extent Honda with Acura) -- luxury German manufacturers. Lexus has been on par with them since the LS series blew the automotive world away in the early 1990s. Now, there are snobby Lexus owners aplenty.

So: Don't discount Hyundai, which has revolutionized specific auto market segments a few times, as well as other industries (shipbuilding comes first to mind). There's no reason why it can't do whatever the hell it wants over time, and well. That Veloster variant already makes for a formidable rally car, and the i20 looks like a beast.

(And yes: marque snobbery is for those that tend toward laziness, elitism, and closed-mindedness. IMHO.)
I don't discount Hyundai as a company to any degree. That's not what this is about. It's the humorous level and almost shameless similarities with the "N" brand in particular.
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