Motor Trend ACR vs. Z06 vs. GT3 RS (coming soon - not published yet)

[dgp]

Even if one could get an RS for 175K (not likely in this market) its performance for the price is still subpar on the track compared to ACR Viper, Z06 and even GTR (which hit quicker ring times than the Porsche). So Porsche fanboys will resort to feel, looks etc, as reasons to own, but for sure it is not setting any performance records for the price.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by dgp

Even if one could get an RS for 175K (not likely in this market) its performance for the price is still subpar on the track compared to ACR Viper, Z06 and even GTR (which hit quicker ring times than the Porsche). So Porsche fanboys will resort to feel, looks etc, as reasons to own, but for sure it is not setting any performance records for the price.

End of the day, no one who buys any of the cars in question is going to ever drive them to their max in a competitive environment so I think how a car feels and the aspects you cannot quantify are what you should go by.
My point still stands. For the very little hp they have compared to most cars you won't find a car with the same hp that can match Porsche. When the new GT2 RS comes out (which is the only car with big hp for Porsche GT) you will see new records.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by dgp

Even if one could get an RS for 175K (not likely in this market) its performance for the price is still subpar on the track compared to ACR Viper, Z06 and even GTR (which hit quicker ring times than the Porsche). So Porsche fanboys will resort to feel, looks etc, as reasons to own, but for sure it is not setting any performance records for the price.

Yes, if you compare to American and Japanese cars.

If you compare Porsche to Italian super cars, it starts looking like a bargain.

I think it's priced just right .. Sits in the middle of Italian and American cars.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

Yes, if you compare to American and Japanese cars.

If you compare Porsche to Italian super cars, it starts looking like a bargain.

I think it's priced just right .. Sits in the middle of Italian and American cars.

There isn't a linear correlation between price and performance. You have it right. For that the GT3 RS does it's a bargain.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

most 911GT3 and GT3 RS are garage queens. barely seeing light of day, much less a track.

You clearly don't visit the track much. Go to any track day and you're likely to see several GT3s. I've seen only a handful of Vipers, Z06s, and ZR1s out, maybe one per event? Virtually never any Ferraris or Lambos. Mind you, I don't live at the track like some people, but between a few trackdays and dozens of autocrosses, I'd say GT3s are VERY highly represented for their production numbers.

As for whether they're "overpriced," that is ridiculous IMO. Dealers can mark them up because demand at list price is higher than the supply. Even if it's not as fast as a cheaper Viper or Vette (you can say that about ANY car, because those are the best bang for the buck cars for performance off the lot), it's a totally different car and driving experience. Rear-engined, very high-revving flat-6 vs. much more common FR, V8/V10 layout. Porsche has the racing pedigree to back it all up, and feels like nothing else to drive. The fact that it can knock out such good times with "only" 450-500hp speaks volumes for the rest of the car.

While I have great respect for Viper/Vette, a GT3 is much more up my alley, regardless of it being 5 seconds or whatever slower on a racetrack.

[ASAP]

Paying one dollar over $250k for a Gt3rs is a certain issue as Chris Harris will help explain; (Porsche puts themselves in a very stupid position with pricing)... for half you can get faster cars... for the marked up price, you can get double the car...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by dgp

Even if one could get an RS for 175K (not likely in this market) its performance for the price is still subpar on the track compared to ACR Viper, Z06 and even GTR (which hit quicker ring times than the Porsche). So Porsche fanboys will resort to feel, looks etc, as reasons to own, but for sure it is not setting any performance records for the price.

Or if you consider the fact that the sole car that is faster than all of those at the ring happens to cost $1 million...

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Or if you consider the fact that the sole car that is faster than all of those at the ring happens to cost $1 million...

Don't forget the Aventador SV

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

Don't forget the Aventador SV

I meant solely from Porsche since that is being discussed... which is embarassing considering the Nismo is 150k and the other two are far less.

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

You clearly don't visit the track much. Go to any track day and you're likely to see several GT3s....

i've been to plenty of track weekends. here on the right coast, unless you are at a PCA event, i can count porsches on one hand. and maybe 1 or 2 GT3/GT3RS.

i see mostly e30s, e36, e46, miatas, sti's and crap loads of c6 and c7 corvettes (usually z06s)

the GT3RS is a great car, but not worth almost double MSRP, imo. the price is artificially supported by shady dealerships playing games with allocations, and dumb rich suckers that can drop $300k like it's nothing. just to have that rare toy, and be the talk of their local C&C.

and PCNA just turns a blind eye. stealerships did the same with the GT4, but it looks like that bubble is bursting. the same will happen with the GT3 RS. and when that gravy train ends, with VAG still incurring red ink, i hope karma smacks Porsche...hard. those enthusiasts that they should have cultivated and reaped loyalty will be long gone, moving on to lambos, mclaren, viper ACR, etc.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Or if you consider the fact that the sole car that is faster than all of those at the ring happens to cost $1 million...

Do you not understand simple economics of supply and demand? Not to mention the fact that performance and price have no relationship to one another.

Viper and z06 have 30% more hp than a GT3 RS but aren't 30% faster...why not?? If the GT3 RS had the same amount of hp no chance the viper or z06 would be able to pull the same times.

Show me a corvette or viper or any other 500 hp street legal car that is as fast or faster than the GT3 RS. I've challenged to to this more than once and all you do is defer...guessing because you won't argue a point that cannot be made.

Porsche doesn't need 650 or 700 hp to be competitive, they can do it with far less. Just like they've been dominating real racing for 50 plus years with no true peer there.

Btw, what car won EVOs Car of the year? Was it the new 488 GTB? The mclarens 675LT? The Amg GTS? All the best offerings from these manufacturers and all got beaten by an 86k Porsche GT4.

[8k4]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I thought acr was even beating the 918?

it did, in fact it spanked it

[8k4]

Originally Posted by EfEightyM3

Do you not understand simple economics of supply and demand? Not to mention the fact that performance and price have no relationship to one another.

Viper and z06 have 30% more hp than a GT3 RS but aren't 30% faster...why not?? If the GT3 RS had the same amount of hp no chance the viper or z06 would be able to pull the same times.

Show me a corvette or viper or any other 500 hp street legal car that is as fast or faster than the GT3 RS. I've challenged to to this more than once and all you do is defer...guessing because you won't argue a point that cannot be made.

Porsche doesn't need 650 or 700 hp to be competitive, they can do it with far less. Just like they've been dominating real racing for 50 plus years with no true peer there.

Btw, what car won EVOs Car of the year? Was it the new 488 GTB? The mclarens 675LT? The Amg GTS? All the best offerings from these manufacturers and all got beaten by an 86k Porsche GT4.

your argument is NULL and VOID, ACR beat the 918 which has some 300hp over the ACR. Fanboyism need not apply

[1MOREMOD]

Im sold on acr. Buddy just got 14 ta and it's the shit.

[AW335TT]

ACR dominates basically any car out there on a track. If that's what you are using to determine if a car is priced correctly then every performance car that's priced 70k and above is over priced.

Except the Z06.

[1MOREMOD]

Z06 can't finish comparo tests in the magazines even.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 8k4

your argument is NULL and VOID, ACR beat the 918 which has some 300hp over the ACR. Fanboyism need not apply

you better get ready to hear about the tires the ACR is running lol

Even tho the 918 is awd with a dual clutch, uses the absolute newest technology and still costs a million...

Fkn mopar slaps on some solid tires, a wing, some aero and whoops everyone's ass with a rwd manual design that's been around for 20 years lol.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Z06 can't finish comparo tests in the magazines even.

Chevrolet brought FOUR Z06s to this test apparently! The last time, Car and Driver crashed it and it wasn't put together correctly for Motor Trend's test - hence the bad results. I'd guess two autos and two manuals

Two ACRs. One in track setting and one in street setting.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by 8k4

your argument is NULL and VOID, ACR beat the 918 which has some 300hp over the ACR. Fanboyism need not apply

Really? When were they tested head to head on the same day? I'd love to see that because chances are it never happened, and if it did, ACR wouldn't be coming out on top.
Also think you need to work on your math. 645 plus "some 300 hp over" is at least 945 hp. Last I checked the 918 didn't have even 900 hp and you do realize it's without the hybrid charge the car only has 610 hp or 35 less than the ACR and is roughly 400 lbs heavier.
Please show me a test at the track done same day, same conditions where the ACR beat the 918. If it did (which id seriously doubt) it would have also beaten the p1 and laferrari.

[EfEightyM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Paying one dollar over $250k for a Gt3rs is a certain issue as Chris Harris will help explain; (Porsche puts themselves in a very stupid position with pricing)... for half you can get faster cars... for the marked up price, you can get double the car...

This completely ignores the fact that you won't be able to buy either the mclaren or the Aston for sticker either. Serious mark up will occur on them as well.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by EfEightyM3

Really? When were they tested head to head on the same day? I'd love to see that because chances are it never happened, and if it did, ACR wouldn't be coming out on top.
Also think you need to work on your math. 645 plus "some 300 hp over" is at least 945 hp. Last I checked the 918 didn't have even 900 hp and you do realize it's without the hybrid charge the car only has 610 hp or 35 less than the ACR and is roughly 400 lbs heavier.
Please show me a test at the track done same day, same conditions where the ACR beat the 918. If it did (which id seriously doubt) it would have also beaten the p1 and laferrari.

Lol ok man you're fkn splitting hairs already. Who cares how much more hp the 918 has. The fact is it has a lot more power, a lot more tech, all wheel drive, cost almost a million dollars.. Etc. ACR holds the most track records of any production car. It destroyed the 918 and P1 around Laguna Seca and it'll destroy the LaF also. No point in arguing that.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by ASAP

you better get ready to hear about the tires the ACR is running lol

Even tho the 918 is awd with a dual clutch, uses the absolute newest technology and still costs a million...

Fkn mopar slaps on some solid tires, a wing, some aero and whoops everyone's ass with a rwd manual design that's been around for 20 years lol.

Exactly why GT race cars use that same formula .. Minus the manual trans. Fk, imagine what the ACR would do with a nice dual clutch.