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      06-14-2019, 06:10 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/
Forums gonna be forums lol.
I appreciate your and everyone else's input.
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      06-15-2019, 04:51 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
The carving up of the sales pitch is fucking gold.
If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/
Ok, I took the video tour. So, Loxones main trick seems to be aimed at automating lights and hvac. Honestly, I dont wont my spare rooms not cooled. Would be annoying and probably wouldn't save me much in the grand scheme. Do you guys really think there is a big market of people looking to save a few energy dollars by not conditioning unused rooms? Amongst the target audience of large luxury homeowners? And labeled keypads are so much more user friendly for selecting lighting presets. For instance, why would I want to tap the center of Loxone switch 5 times to cycle and find the mode I wont? With a keypad, one click to select whatever preset which could also easily be automated.

I also really do not like the wall switch at all. Not intuitive. I can see guests turning on music or closing shadings accidentally. Really odd. And the audio control is awful. Reminds of the days of old school Nuvo audio switches, blindly selecting sources. Why not a nice touch panel with 4k gui to select sources? Something familiar than anyone can use with out a lesson. Example of my T3's are below, much better for selecting audio. Would hate to navigate Apple music thorough Loxones app. Guessing that is why there is a Loxone user looking to add Crestron or C4 on top.

Not trying to be harsh but as a target consumer, I really do not see this taking off.
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      06-16-2019, 03:11 PM   #69
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I’m curious as a Control4 user... what specifically can Loxone do that Control4 cannot?
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      06-16-2019, 04:03 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
I'm curious as a Control4 user... what specifically can Loxone do that Control4 cannot?
Its smarter, lol. I think the better question is what can C4 do that Loxone can't. Seems to be a LOT!
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      06-16-2019, 04:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
The carving up of the sales pitch is fucking gold.
If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/
Ok, I took the video tour. So, Loxones main trick seems to be aimed at automating lights and hvac. Honestly, I dont wont my spare rooms not cooled. Would be annoying and probably wouldn't save me much in the grand scheme. Do you guys really think there is a big market of people looking to save a few energy dollars by not conditioning unused rooms? Amongst the target audience of large luxury homeowners? And labeled keypads are so much more user friendly for selecting lighting presets. For instance, why would I want to tap the center of Loxone switch 5 times to cycle and find the mode I wont? With a keypad, one click to select whatever preset which could also easily be automated.

I also really do not like the wall switch at all. Not intuitive. I can see guests turning on music or closing shadings accidentally. Really odd. And the audio control is awful. Reminds of the days of old school Nuvo audio switches, blindly selecting sources. Why not a nice touch panel with 4k gui to select sources? Something familiar than anyone can use with out a lesson. Example of my T3's are below, much better for selecting audio. Would hate to navigate Apple music thorough Loxones app. Guessing that is why there is a Loxone user looking to add Crestron or C4 on top.

Not trying to be harsh but as a target consumer, I really do not see this taking off.
Thanks for taking the tour and learning more about Loxone.

One comment regarding your last sentence above... Loxone is already far outselling C4, and Savant across Europe. I am betting my career we will continue this track record of success in North America as well. Wish me the best!
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      06-16-2019, 05:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Thanks for taking the tour and learning more about Loxone.

One comment regarding your last sentence above... Loxone is already far outselling C4, and Savant across Europe. I am betting my career we will continue this track record of success in North America as well. Wish me the best!
What is it that Loxone can do that Control4 canít?
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      06-16-2019, 05:40 PM   #73
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Its smarter, lol. I think the better question is what can C4 do that Loxone can't. Seems to be a LOT!
I would tend to agree with you, especially with the new interface and features that OS3 offers

After doing some research it looks like Loxone is like mi casa verde type automation “for the massses”

Nothing against Loxone but it’s not even on the same planet as Control4

Even if their sales are higher than c4 and savant it’s like saying McDonalds outsells Mastro’s in the US. It’s a totally different product, experience and expectation

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      06-16-2019, 09:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Nothing against Loxone but it's not even on the same planet as Control4
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
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      06-17-2019, 01:43 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Nothing against Loxone but it's not even on the same planet as Control4
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
1. Hardware interface. The Loxone Switch is severely limited compared to a touchscreen for most functions. It is also not intuitive. Anyone can use my keypads and touchscreens without an explanation.

2. GUI. C4 and others are WAY ahead here. The Loxone app is awful. Why grayscale? Odd icons, excessive text.

3. Audio distribution. Huge advantage in source selection and browsing.

4. Video distribution. Is that even available in Loxone or is that 3rd party?

5. Dealer support as of now.

6. Native third party integration.
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      06-17-2019, 03:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Nothing against Loxone but it's not even on the same planet as Control4
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
1. Hardware interface. The Loxone Switch is severely limited compared to a touchscreen for most functions. It is also not intuitive. Anyone can use my keypads and touchscreens without an explanation.

2. GUI. C4 and others are WAY ahead here. The Loxone app is awful. Why grayscale? Odd icons, excessive text.

3. Audio distribution. Huge advantage in source selection and browsing.

4. Video distribution. Is that even available in Loxone or is that 3rd party?

5. Dealer support as of now.

6. Native third party integration.
I disagree with your opinion, but that's fine.

May I ask why you picked/prefer C4 over Savant?
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      06-17-2019, 03:59 PM   #77
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Anyone use HomeKit? Considering all the iPhones and Apple TVs I figure I can't be the only one that has experimented with Apple's smart home solution.
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      06-17-2019, 04:24 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Nothing against Loxone but it's not even on the same planet as Control4
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
1. Hardware interface. The Loxone Switch is severely limited compared to a touchscreen for most functions. It is also not intuitive. Anyone can use my keypads and touchscreens without an explanation.

2. GUI. C4 and others are WAY ahead here. The Loxone app is awful. Why grayscale? Odd icons, excessive text.

3. Audio distribution. Huge advantage in source selection and browsing.

4. Video distribution. Is that even available in Loxone or is that 3rd party?

5. Dealer support as of now.

6. Native third party integration.
I disagree with your opinion, but that's fine.

May I ask why you picked/prefer C4 over Savant?
Which parts do you disagree with? I changed from Crestron to Control4. Really came down to comfort with installer.

As to Homekit, the only thing that has interested me is the Brilliant devices. I like the look of the switch. Might be fun to mess around with.
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      06-17-2019, 09:19 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
Configurable keypads with engraved buttons that are backlit

Zigbee Pro for meshing and continued adding of system components

Their touchscreens are sweet

Built in music services are over a dozen... not 2

Excellent audio video control

App is sweet. OS3 is a killer interface

Strong 3rd party component integration, HDMI matrixes, tv’s, avrs, blinds, irrigation, cameras etc

Wireless motion sensors that are the size of a thumb which can be placed in the perfect location for sensing motion

As an example, my programmer installed a wireless motion sensor at my front door. Now if someone approaches, I get an alert, my tv switches to the entrance cam view and a snapshot gets emailed to me, excellent for letting me know when the Amazon package has arrived or if I want to answer the knock on the door from a salesman

Again I’m not knocking Loxone, I’m sure it’s great for what it is and what it costs.... it’s got its place but let’s be real, it’s not on the same level as Control4 or Crestron. Without really good a/v control, it can’t be.
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      06-18-2019, 08:32 AM   #80
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Some of you guys have way more money than you know what to do with.
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      06-18-2019, 09:33 AM   #81
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The girlfriend has a vibrator with wifi and bluetooth. Does that count?
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      06-18-2019, 09:48 AM   #82
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does it stream music?
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      06-18-2019, 09:55 AM   #83
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does it stream music?
It does, but comes with no speaker or dedicated audio output. It's the damnedest thing. Turn that thing on, connect to wifi, start the pandora or spotify app (pre-installed), begin usage.....then let her open her mouth. Suddenly the room is filled with rich, vibrant sound!

It also acts like it's listening after she is done with it.
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      06-18-2019, 11:20 AM   #84
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It also acts like it's listening after she is done with it.
Group buy?
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      06-18-2019, 11:57 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
Configurable keypads with engraved buttons that are backlit

Zigbee Pro for meshing and continued adding of system components

Their touchscreens are sweet

Built in music services are over a dozen... not 2

Excellent audio video control

App is sweet. OS3 is a killer interface

Strong 3rd party component integration, HDMI matrixes, tv's, avrs, blinds, irrigation, cameras etc

Wireless motion sensors that are the size of a thumb which can be placed in the perfect location for sensing motion

As an example, my programmer installed a wireless motion sensor at my front door. Now if someone approaches, I get an alert, my tv switches to the entrance cam view and a snapshot gets emailed to me, excellent for letting me know when the Amazon package has arrived or if I want to answer the knock on the door from a salesman

Again I'm not knocking Loxone, I'm sure it's great for what it is and what it costs.... it's got its place but let's be real, it's not on the same level as Control4 or Crestron. Without really good a/v control, it can't be.
What you're describing is a great control system. While I probably prefer Savant over C4, but they're both excellent systems that have different design goals than Loxone. Saying Loxone "is not on the same level" as those systems is akin to saying an M3 isn't on the same level as a Jeep Rubicon because the M3 can't go off road or cross a stream. Loxone isn't trying to aggregate third party devices into a single interface. Loxone is focused on bringing intelligence or "smarts" to the critical systems of the home. In this regard you might say C4 and Savant aren't "on the same level" as Loxone.

I should have foreseen people running competing systems in their home would trash everything else as being sub-par.
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      06-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #86
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Group buy?
Only if we can watch group usage!
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      06-18-2019, 12:21 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
Configurable keypads with engraved buttons that are backlit

Zigbee Pro for meshing and continued adding of system components

Their touchscreens are sweet

Built in music services are over a dozen... not 2

Excellent audio video control

App is sweet. OS3 is a killer interface

Strong 3rd party component integration, HDMI matrixes, tv's, avrs, blinds, irrigation, cameras etc

Wireless motion sensors that are the size of a thumb which can be placed in the perfect location for sensing motion

As an example, my programmer installed a wireless motion sensor at my front door. Now if someone approaches, I get an alert, my tv switches to the entrance cam view and a snapshot gets emailed to me, excellent for letting me know when the Amazon package has arrived or if I want to answer the knock on the door from a salesman

Again I'm not knocking Loxone, I'm sure it's great for what it is and what it costs.... it's got its place but let's be real, it's not on the same level as Control4 or Crestron. Without really good a/v control, it can't be.
What you're describing is a great control system. While I probably prefer Savant over C4, but they're both excellent systems that have different design goals than Loxone. Saying Loxone "is not on the same level" as those systems is akin to saying an M3 isn't on the same level as a Jeep Rubicon because the M3 can't go off road or cross a stream. Loxone isn't trying to aggregate third party devices into a single interface. Loxone is focused on bringing intelligence or "smarts" to the critical systems of the home. In this regard you might say C4 and Savant aren't "on the same level" as Loxone.

I should have foreseen people running competing systems in their home would trash everything else as being sub-par.
Nah, thats BS. Not bashing anything because its not in my house. I dont currently have Savant or Crestron but they make great products. However, you are the one that initially said, "Call me biased, but I genuinely believe Loxone is providing an experience at least a generation ahead of every other smart home (aka: automation) system available." Followed by a bunch of marketing quotes.

So a generation ahead of what? Certainly not user interface and a/v distribution. Lets be honest, Loxone may have a unique approach to lighting and hvac but is severely lacking in many other areas, areas I have repeatedly mentioned but you have not addressed at all. Again, why I see a Loxone user looking to install C4 along side it.
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      06-18-2019, 01:28 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr2M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All systems have positive and negative attributes. I'm curious why you find C4 so superior. Would you elaborate?
Configurable keypads with engraved buttons that are backlit

Zigbee Pro for meshing and continued adding of system components

Their touchscreens are sweet

Built in music services are over a dozen... not 2

Excellent audio video control

App is sweet. OS3 is a killer interface

Strong 3rd party component integration, HDMI matrixes, tv's, avrs, blinds, irrigation, cameras etc

Wireless motion sensors that are the size of a thumb which can be placed in the perfect location for sensing motion

As an example, my programmer installed a wireless motion sensor at my front door. Now if someone approaches, I get an alert, my tv switches to the entrance cam view and a snapshot gets emailed to me, excellent for letting me know when the Amazon package has arrived or if I want to answer the knock on the door from a salesman

Again I'm not knocking Loxone, I'm sure it's great for what it is and what it costs.... it's got its place but let's be real, it's not on the same level as Control4 or Crestron. Without really good a/v control, it can't be.
What you're describing is a great control system. While I probably prefer Savant over C4, but they're both excellent systems that have different design goals than Loxone. Saying Loxone "is not on the same level" as those systems is akin to saying an M3 isn't on the same level as a Jeep Rubicon because the M3 can't go off road or cross a stream. Loxone isn't trying to aggregate third party devices into a single interface. Loxone is focused on bringing intelligence or "smarts" to the critical systems of the home. In this regard you might say C4 and Savant aren't "on the same level" as Loxone.

I should have foreseen people running competing systems in their home would trash everything else as being sub-par.
Nah, thats BS. Not bashing anything because its not in my house. I dont currently have Savant or Crestron but they make great products. However, you are the one that initially said, "Call me biased, but I genuinely believe Loxone is providing an experience at least a generation ahead of every other smart home (aka: automation) system available." Followed by a bunch of marketing quotes.

So a generation ahead of what? Certainly not user interface and a/v distribution. Lets be honest, Loxone may have a unique approach to lighting and hvac but is severely lacking in many other areas, areas I have repeatedly mentioned but you have not addressed at all. Again, why I see a Loxone user looking to install C4 along side it.
To state it broadly, Loxone is a generation ahead in making your home smarter. This is the point I've been detailing in this thread.

Yes, I wouldn't use Loxone to run a centralized/distributed video system. Just like I wouldn't drive an M3 on a trail in the forest. If we're going to use a centralized video system as the standard then running a Crestron DM system is my pick, but I do like using RTi control with Just Add Power distribution components.

As a veteran in this industry, when I personally think "Smart Home" Loxone is most capable system. What you're describing are traditional control systems where Loxone isn't nearly as capable at those tasks. Like I've said earlier... The best tool for the job depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Question for everyone: how do you define a "smart home?"
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