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      06-10-2019, 02:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Just price a 575, 430 or especially 599 (of which only 7 were manuals) compared to their F1 version. Rumor for years has been that Ferrari was going to allow customers to pay a huge premium for a manual, but nothing has come of that, probably due to emissions testing requirements.
Yup they are wanted no doubt, it was the case not long ago that of you cant drive with 3 pedals, you cant have a Prancing Horse..ahh the good old days when Ferrari was for actual drivers

The price to certify should be irrelevant for the customer base in question, F made a big mistake going hollywood and one day will have to change course.
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      06-10-2019, 05:07 PM   #24
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Manual any day of the week.

Porsche made this mistake a while back when they stopped putting a manual in the GT3. They said the PDK is the quickest way around a track. They forgot to ask the question, "Does the ultimate lap time matter to the buyer or is it driver involvement."

We see plenty of noobs on forums, IG and Twitter quickly dissing the manual because the flappy paddle it "quicker" around the track. I usually pose the challenge to them - put me in a car with a manual and you can drive your flappy paddle and we'll see who's quicker around a track. 90% of speed is driver mod.

A manual 458 would be epic in every way. Glad someone is doing it.
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      06-10-2019, 09:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I'm not going to the track, but I do like a twisty road and I love rowing the gears.
I racked up over a hundred track days between 2006-2015 and I would never have considered anything but a stickshift. Performance driving to me is not about speed per se, but more about problem solving, and giving up some of those problems over to the car so it could solve them for me (e.g., traction control, transmission, etc.) defeats the entire purpose in my eyes. I wasn't racing with any big prizes on the line, but if I had been can see how taking variables from the driver would be beneficial. I was simply out there to see how well I could maneuver the car over the twisting tarmac and around traffic while feeling out things such as grip and brakes and while smoothly and simultaneously using more controls than I had limbs at the entrance to every turn. If someone wants to have a car go around a track in the shortest time possible by using instantly-shifting computer controlled transmissions and whatnot, more power to them. That's not what I was after, though.
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      06-10-2019, 10:55 PM   #26
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Would be amazing. The whole reason i bought my M3 was because it was a great daily, but also because i missed having a manual too much. I wonder how much this swap costs but im sure it might be close to a used f80 price.

Only downside would the performance drop. No 200mph. And possibly more drone on the highway if the rpms are higher. 7th gear at 80mph im like at 3300 rpm.


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      06-11-2019, 12:37 AM   #27
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I would do the conversion in a heartbeat.

I mean is it really that hard for Ferrari, etc to put a manual in there?! Such bullshit.
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      06-11-2019, 06:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherM4n View Post
I racked up over a hundred track days between 2006-2015 and I would never have considered anything but a stickshift. Performance driving to me is not about speed per se, but more about problem solving, and giving up some of those problems over to the car so it could solve them for me (e.g., traction control, transmission, etc.) defeats the entire purpose in my eyes. I wasn't racing with any big prizes on the line, but if I had been can see how taking variables from the driver would be beneficial. I was simply out there to see how well I could maneuver the car over the twisting tarmac and around traffic while feeling out things such as grip and brakes and while smoothly and simultaneously using more controls than I had limbs at the entrance to every turn. If someone wants to have a car go around a track in the shortest time possible by using instantly-shifting computer controlled transmissions and whatnot, more power to them. That's not what I was after, though.
I think some drivers are in love with technology where as some drivers (me included) like to be making the decisions and have the control. My 2015 Benz has so much electronics that I'm always worried about that equipment failing.
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      06-11-2019, 08:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Pay for it ... And make it slower ?
Rather it be 1 seconds slower and have more fun.
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      06-11-2019, 08:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Would be amazing. The whole reason i bought my M3 was because it was a great daily, but also because i missed having a manual too much. I wonder how much this swap costs but im sure it might be close to a used f80 price.

Only downside would the performance drop. No 200mph. And possibly more drone on the highway if the rpms are higher. 7th gear at 80mph im like at 3300 rpm.


Wow I'd like to have your garage one day nice.
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      06-11-2019, 08:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
You'd be surprised at just how reliable the prancing horse is these days. It's not a Camry, but neither are BMW's either. I've yet to have a single issue with my Ferrari yet, nor do I know of any breakdowns with any friends I know that have one either, barring one buddy who has a 348 that has annual electrical gremlins related to the window switches and turn signals. But that car is a quarter century old.
But then again, how many millage does yours have and which one is it?
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      06-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
It is a 2002 360 with about 23K miles. So low miles, yes, but the thing is 17 years old.
See IMO that's the thing. Yeah it's 17 years old but milleage still does something for reliability IMO.

If you compare a 2002 BMW it won't have the same amount of miles.

A BMW with 200k miles to a Ferrari with 200k miles of those years I'm pretty sure overall the BMW would have been much more reliable.
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      06-11-2019, 09:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
See IMO that's the thing. Yeah it's 17 years old but milleage still does something for reliability IMO.

If you compare a 2002 BMW it won't have the same amount of miles.

A BMW with 200k miles to a Ferrari with 200k miles of those years I'm pretty sure overall the BMW would have been much more reliable.
1) Possibly, of course it would depend on which BMW. Compared to a 2002 7 series? I would probably say that the Ferrari would be more reliable, lol. Compared to a 323i? The BMW would probably win.

2) I also don't think that the Ferrari would much less reliable. My experience has shown that exotics don't typically have 'reliability' issues so much as they have unusually frequent maintenance requirements. This would be expected, since the components are specifically designed for performance over all other things, including longevity.

3) I don't think it is unfair to say that Italian cars, by and large, are somewhat less reliable than Honda, Toyota, et al. To say they are downright unreliable, though, I think is a common misnomer.
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      06-11-2019, 07:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I think some drivers are in love with technology where as some drivers (me included) like to be making the decisions and have the control. My 2015 Benz has so much electronics that I'm always worried about that equipment failing.
I'm with you. I don't even use the automatic setting on my headlights.
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      06-12-2019, 08:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by shay2nak View Post
I would do the conversion in a heartbeat.

I mean is it really that hard for Ferrari, etc to put a manual in there?! Such bullshit.
I don't think it would be difficult but this where Ferrari and Porsche buyers start to show differences and also new vs used buyers.

Second hand buyers are different. They aren't looking for newest and best, they are looking to actually use the vehicle.

Also, Ferrari's last manual models were selling in the double digits IIRC. No one really wanted them, so Ferrari just stopped. Easier for them as they don't have to certify another drivetrain for emissions or design cars around two transmissions. Porsche drivers on the other hand, still buy new manual models in significant amounts and let the manufacturer know through money and communication.
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      06-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by See5 View Post
I don't think it would be difficult but this where Ferrari and Porsche buyers start to show differences and also new vs used buyers.

Second hand buyers are different. They aren't looking for newest and best, they are looking to actually use the vehicle.

Also, Ferrari's last manual models were selling in the double digits IIRC. No one really wanted them, so Ferrari just stopped. Easier for them as they don't have to certify another drivetrain for emissions or design cars around two transmissions. Porsche drivers on the other hand, still buy new manual models in significant amounts and let the manufacturer know through money and communication.
Like BMW, Ferrari is selling MANY more vehicles now that they're all automatic. Think about the rich executive who drives an S-class or G-wagen all week/winter having to then get into his high end sports car with basically a racing clutch and a manual trans. He doesn't want to look like an a-hole driving to pick up his coffee and I think that's where much of this comes from.

For decades automatic drivers have been shamed relentlessly into the shadows only for technology to finally liberate them. No longer do you have to admit you can't drive a stick -- you can just hide behind the fact that it's quicker and no one will every find out your shameful secret.

With that said, as a 37 year old man whose parents (both around 70yo) have still never owned an automatic vehicle, I firmly believe that stick is more enjoyable for any sporty vehicle.

If meals could be consumed in pill form, would you opt for that instead of sinking your teeth into a delicious Shake Shack or In-N-Out burger? It's much faster.
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      06-12-2019, 11:56 AM   #37
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Haha, reminds me of a colleague I used to work with. We'd go out to lunch and order, once his food hit the table, he'd be done in seconds, sometimes before we'd get our food.

I asked him if he'd eat a shake with a burger, fries, ketchup and pickles in it and he didn't hesitate, absolutely. He also drove an automatic.
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      06-13-2019, 11:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Like BMW, Ferrari is selling MANY more vehicles now that they're all automatic. Think about the rich executive who drives an S-class or G-wagen all week/winter having to then get into his high end sports car with basically a racing clutch and a manual trans. He doesn't want to look like an a-hole driving to pick up his coffee and I think that's where much of this comes from.

For decades automatic drivers have been shamed relentlessly into the shadows only for technology to finally liberate them. No longer do you have to admit you can't drive a stick -- you can just hide behind the fact that it's quicker and no one will every find out your shameful secret.

With that said, as a 37 year old man whose parents (both around 70yo) have still never owned an automatic vehicle, I firmly believe that stick is more enjoyable for any sporty vehicle.

If meals could be consumed in pill form, would you opt for that instead of sinking your teeth into a delicious Shake Shack or In-N-Out burger? It's much faster.
I don't buy that explanation. Ferrari, etc are coddling people who can't drive manual. Is it that hard to learn to drive a stick? NO. If you really want to drive any car with a manual, you'd learn, especially exotics. Most people who buy these cars are posers because of the availability of flappy paddles. They don't care about cars or driving. They just own the car because it's a Ferrari. It blows my mind that they would not offer a manual option. They can surely afford it.

And yes, I would eat meals in pill form only to save time. It takes a lot of time out of my day to constantly eat (high metabolism).

If I were to buy a Ferrari, it would be a F430 with a 6MT, which to my understanding, is the last model they offered with a manual.
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      06-13-2019, 11:49 AM   #39
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Ferrari has certainly gone hollywood and silicone 😉 valley, coddling the rich and infamous and eliminating the MT, Enzo has to be flipping over in his grave with how far the production cars have moved away from pure enthusiast offerings. I can certainly understand having track only focused cars where a dct makes sense for competition, but street focused Fcars should only be manuals, no one that doesnt know how to drive MT should be given the keys to 700,800, 1000+hp, its absolutely insane hence my renaming them hollywood.
I luv old ferraris as im not a tracker and the sound and engagement is what makes them desirable, not how fast they can climb up the driver in front of mes ass on local roads, just stupid.

The last MT was the 599 GTB, ultrarare though(only 30 made/20 came to the US) so they are untouchable.
The 430 was the next to last, with about 10% made with the MT, so they are quite rare and certainly carry a considerable premium.
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      06-13-2019, 11:57 AM   #40
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different strokes for different folks
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      06-16-2019, 06:31 AM   #41
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Enzo would be fine with no manuals. He didn't give a shit about road cars, he just made them to fund his racing team. So he'd say ok - give them automatics if that's what they want, and of course he'd want to use DCT in the F1 cars
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      06-16-2019, 07:03 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
The thought of the reliability of an Italian sports car, coupled with a one off transmission from some random shop in Texas is not inspiring.
There is no way they will actually create the transmission themselves. They'll use one from a transmission company and use a custom bell housing. Just look at Lambo sequential transmission swaps for reference.
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      06-16-2019, 07:07 AM   #43
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This video compares the inner workings of a dual clutch to a sequential trans. It's not directly related to a 458, but interesting nonetheless.

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      06-18-2019, 09:00 AM   #44
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different strokes for different folks
Therein lies the issue. There is only one stroke on offer.
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