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      06-07-2019, 01:51 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
We can't help you till you want to be helped.
More pandering jouralism. Thanks Mr. Skinner. The article about Pelosi is especially bad......

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-american-mirror/
Thanks RD, that means a lot coming from a brain dead lemming such as yourself.
Are you saying that with love in your heart?
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      06-07-2019, 01:52 PM   #112
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Are you saying that with love in your heart?
I sincerely find you to be a brainwashed lemming, and out of compassion I hope one day you can surgically remove your head from your ass so you can see how blind you truly are.
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      06-07-2019, 01:53 PM   #113
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Are you saying that with love in your heart?
I sincerely find you to be a brainwashed lemming, and out of compassion I hope one day you can surgically remove your head from your ass so you can see how blind you truly are.
Trump-type insults. Nice work.

Do you do steroids like Delta, or do you keep it clean?
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      06-07-2019, 01:55 PM   #114
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Trump-type insults. Nice work.

Do you do steroids like Delta, or do you keep it clean?
All natty over here. I was a personal trainer for 5 years throughout college and saw gear ruin a few fellow trainers.

Anyways, have a good weekend!
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      06-08-2019, 04:04 PM   #115
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So how many hours do you spend preening and flexing in front of the mirror on a monthly basis-doesn't it take up a lot of your time?
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      06-08-2019, 04:07 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
Trump-type insults. Nice work.

Do you do steroids like Delta, or do you keep it clean?
How do you know what Delta does and doesnt do?
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      06-08-2019, 08:02 PM   #117
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Pelosi constantly complains about children are no properly cared for at the boarder and now complains We are pressuring the Mexicans to do more at the cost of people that are applying for asylum.

Why does not Nervous Nancy propose legislation??
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      06-09-2019, 06:49 AM   #118
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So how many hours do you spend preening and flexing in front of the mirror on a monthly basis-doesn't it take up a lot of your time?
Lol I’m not a bodybuilder, no posing going on over here.

My training consists of a blend of powerlifting and Crossfit.
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      06-09-2019, 06:53 AM   #119
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Lol I’m not a bodybuilder, no posing going on over here.

My training consists of a blend of powerlifting and Crossfit.
I used to do powerlifting but over the years I had a few injuries and switched to bodybuilding focused workouts. Although still stick with the basics, just with less back breaking weight. Bodybuilding or as I call it, training for the invalids.
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      06-09-2019, 12:16 PM   #120
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Fake news, in reality you are a fatty. Only a fatty would claim to lift on the internet.
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      06-09-2019, 12:59 PM   #121
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Fake news, in reality you are a fatty. Only a fatty would claim to lift on the internet.
Right so everyone on the different workout forums is a fatty.

Including all the guys on the fitness forum here.
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      06-11-2019, 02:28 AM   #122
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      06-11-2019, 07:35 AM   #123
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I do not identify as a Dem or Republican. I vote more so for the person than the party. With that said, I have voted Republican far more times than Democrat over the years. But, I will not vote for Trump the next election. He has wore out his welcome with his constant lies and behavior that is simply unbecoming of the office.
ScottyRyan2019

I share your sentiments....
I do not neatly fit into any one political or philosophical category. I am not a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, Federalist or fall clearly into any of these or similar political parties or philosophies.
Since no single label seems to adequately describe my political beliefs, I consider myself to be a combination of a number of “labels”, including a secular, moral, ethical, rational humanist who enjoys learning new things and am willing to modify my opinions based on new accurate and factual information. So fine tuning it politically, I am a moderate, centrist and an independent, as well as a progressive, realist and pragmatist, and sometimes even sympathize with Libertarian points of view. Ultimately, my goal is for all of us to communicate and cooperate to achieve and maintain a high quality of life and the desired progress for all Americans.

The main stream media would have us believe that there is no “center” in American politics anymore. Increasingly polarized camps on the right and left hold diametrically opposed, irreconcilable views on seemingly every issue. I find it hard to understand how those on the far-left who are Democrats (Liberals) always follow the DNC party platform almost 100% or those on the far-right who are Republicans (Conservatives) and almost always follow the RNC party platform 100%. Interestingly, more than a third of American voters call themselves neither liberal nor conservative but moderate, indicating a substantial chunk of dissenters from the left-right paradigm.

As a moderate I probably am in the middle, where I sense and value points of some Liberal doctrines and some Conservative doctrines, based on intelligent cerebral thought, taking into account what I have learned in my formal education, life experiences, as well as what I feel morally in my heart. I see both parties as overly ideological, with Democrats being too liberal and Republicans being too conservative. Like many, I am also distressed by the worsening harsh and divisive nature of the current political discourse.

I believe that there is a major segment of our electorate that doesn't belong firmly to either right or left ideological camp, and is distinct in its ideas and sympathies from either liberals or conservatives. That is where I am. I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum, i.e. - too liberal to be a true conservative and too conservative to be a true liberal. I was originally registered as a Republican and was so for about 8-10 years and then realized that as the GOP moved farther to the right I was probably more of what was then referred to as Blue Dog Democrats as a centrist, so I changed my party affiliation accordingly, so I could vote in the primaries in my home state of NJ.

Today I consider myself to truly be “Independent” on the political landscape with a foot in both the right and left camps. I wrestle with, and often reject, what I see as the false either/or ideological choices that define modern American politics. I see virtue in both sides’ arguments and complex issues and try to be sympathetic and understand the motivations of both sides. I recognize that both sides have a piece of the truth and as a result, see flaws in the standard absolute liberal and conservative perspectives.

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      06-11-2019, 08:12 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019 View Post
I do not identify as a Dem or Republican. I vote more so for the person than the party. With that said, I have voted Republican far more times than Democrat over the years. But, I will not vote for Trump the next election. He has wore out his welcome with his constant lies and behavior that is simply unbecoming of the office.
I could have written this post word for word myself.

Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. No, I will not vote for Trump in 2020. None of the Dem candidates currently in the race are as bad as Hillary, and her candidacy is the only reason I held my nose and voted for Trump.
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      06-11-2019, 08:14 AM   #125
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So I don't ever see myself going over to the hard left. I think of myself as being in the middle. I am a fiscal conservative who believes in less and smaller government. I have no problem paying taxes for things such as health care, education, public safety and infrastructure. I think we should take care of societies vulnerable and I can't tolerate government waste.

The thing I find interesting in this whole left right debate currently is that the left (Liberals in Canada) used to sit in the centre, what they call right leaning and sometimes extreme right are now who's actually in the centre. The Conservative Party in Canada sits where the Liberals did 15 years ago. JFK the great Democrat and I mean that with honesty and respect would be considered a right winger by todays Democrats.

This could be an interesting discussion if the name calling can be kept in check.
I also could have written this post word for word (except the bits about Canadian government/politics). Well said, Grumpy!
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      06-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #126
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Ive felt that if the party had decided after the 1st or 2nd round of voting to drop down to one candidate to oppose trump, he wouldnt have won. Cruz, Rubio and Kasich split way too many votes until it was too late...
Bingo. I've said this before - if not here, then elsewhere.

I disagree that Hillary would have beaten either of those 3, however. I think Hillary was the least likeable candidate in modern history by a mile.
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      06-11-2019, 08:42 AM   #127
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Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. No, I will not vote for Trump in 2020. None of the Dem candidates currently in the race are as bad as Hillary, and her candidacy is the only reason I held my nose and voted for Trump.
hooligan_COLD:

I am constantly surprised how so many Trump supporters say that they find the man to be a deplorable and detestable human being, but will still vote for him again....! (I am glad to read that you are not...)
They are making a hypocritical rationalization that no matter how foul the person, whatever they have to do to get their way, makes it OK. To coin a well know phrase, essentially that “the ends justify the means…..”

I refuse to accept that rationalization, where his supporters attempt to explain or justify Trump's awful and inappropriate behavior and selfish attitude with logical reasons. How can folks honestly say that they want to vote for Trump again, knowing now what we all now know about him and how he operates, ignoring the U.S. Constitution and constantly lying, proving daily that you cannot trust anything he says....?

I cannot separate the man and who he really is and how he acts, from what I consider to be the bare minimum qualifications to act as a competent public servant who truly wants to do what is in the best interest of ALL Americans. I want a President who I trust and am confident in their rational intelligence and thoughtful consideration of all the facts and options, who will ultimately not make a very stupid choice and/or decision(s) in a very real national/international crisis, that will turn out to have catastrophic ramifications for all of us. Trump is not that man!

It is too soon to know who the viable candidates will be to oppose Trump in the 2020 presidential campaign. I still hold out hope that someone will eventually stand out as a serious contender, who is a relative moderate/centrist, embodying most of what I consider to be the necessary attributes for success that I listed in the other thread dedicated to speculating who will compete against Trump. I truly hope that none of us have to "pinch our noses" when we vote November 2020....

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      06-11-2019, 08:57 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
hooligan_COLD:

I am constantly surprised how so many Trump supporters say that they find the man to be a deplorable and detestable human being, but will still vote for him again....! (I am glad to read that you are not...)
They are making a hypocritical rationalization that no matter how foul the person, whatever they have to do to get their way, makes it OK. To coin a well know phrase, essentially that “the ends justify the means…..”

I refuse to accept that rationalization, where his supporters attempt to explain or justify Trump's awful and inappropriate behavior and selfish attitude with logical reasons. How can folks honestly say that they want to vote for Trump again, knowing now what we all now know about him and how he operates, ignoring the U.S. Constitution and constantly lying, proving daily that you cannot trust anything he says....?

I cannot separate the man and who he really is and how he acts, from what I consider to be the bare minimum qualifications to act as a competent public servant who truly wants to do what is in the best interest of ALL Americans. I want a President who I trust and am confident in their rational intelligence and thoughtful consideration of all the facts and options, who will ultimately not make a very stupid choice and/or decision(s) in a very real national/international crisis, that will turn out to have catastrophic ramifications for all of us. Trump is not that man!

It is too soon to know who the viable candidates will be to oppose Trump in the 2020 presidential campaign. I still hold out hope that someone will eventually stand out as a serious contender, who is a relative moderate/centrist, embodying most of what I consider to be the necessary attributes for success that I listed in the other thread dedicated to speculating who will compete against Trump. I truly hope that none of us have to "pinch our noses" when we vote November 2020....

AVB-AMG

I was hoping against hope that the "Presidential pivot" was a real possibility immediately following the election. I was disabused of that optimism in fairly short order, obviously.
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      06-11-2019, 08:59 AM   #129
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I will add to the OP that I have absolutely had my views/stances on individual situations and pieces of legislation changed via discussion on internet forums, without question.

I have not had my overall political ideology swayed, however.
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      06-11-2019, 09:07 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
I was hoping against hope that the "Presidential pivot" was a real possibility immediately following the election. I was disabused of that optimism in fairly short order, obviously.
hooligan_COLD:

You were not alone in that sentiment. I also reluctantly held out hope that I would be surprised and that Trump would "grow into the Presidency...", but it did not happen.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, I agreed with a number of Trump's statements, while cringing at his choice of language and utter disrespect for women, the latter which is certainly his Achilles heel and may be his ultimate downfall. FYI, I voted for President Obama, (twice), as a refreshing, educated, intellectual alternative to what we experienced by President George Bush and his administration. I feel that Obama campaigned as being one type of President and then once in office, turned out to be something else and that he had a real disdain for politics! We discovered that he hated dealing with the necessary political process of convincing Congress to enact his programs, squandered and misdirected his political mandate from the voters and revealed to the American public that he is a horrendous negotiator on both national and international issues.

Trump understood many Americans general dissatisfaction, anxiety, frustration and anger with the actions and polices promoted by the Obama Administration as well as Democrat-controlled Congress. Trump had the savvy self-marketing skills to know how to manipulate not just the “low information” voters, but also most dissatisfied voters of all political persuasions. He played all sides, claiming that only he could restore America’s greatness in the eyes of the world. It is understandable that during the early stage of the 2016 Presidential campaign that he was focusing on what was wrong and/or what had failed to work, without offering any real ideas, let alone any specifics, on what should be done. I think we have now learned that only one person can "rein in" Donald Trump and that's Donald Trump, if he so desires. We know that he likes to say outrageous things to shock his adversaries as a starting point for negotiations. Unfortunately, he does not seem to have thought out his real end game and therefore seems to bounce around like a pin ball, until something else distracts his attention. He really does seem to enjoy throwing mud against the wall (and his perceived enemies) and sees what may possibly stick. Ultimately, he has demonstrated over the past number of years that money doesn't buy class or character, but it can be a powerful megaphone for someone who has neither....

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      06-11-2019, 10:06 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post

Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. No, I will not vote for Trump in 2020. None of the Dem candidates currently in the race are as bad as Hillary, and her candidacy is the only reason I held my nose and voted for Trump.
hooligan_COLD:

I am constantly surprised how so many Trump supporters say that they find the man to be a deplorable and detestable human being, but will still vote for him again....! (I am glad to read that you are not...)
They are making a hypocritical rationalization that no matter how foul the person, whatever they have to do to get their way, makes it OK. To coin a well know phrase, essentially that "the ends justify the means….."

I refuse to accept that rationalization, where his supporters attempt to explain or justify Trump's awful and inappropriate behavior and selfish attitude with logical reasons. How can folks honestly say that they want to vote for Trump again, knowing now what we all now know about him and how he operates, ignoring the U.S. Constitution and constantly lying, proving daily that you cannot trust anything he says....?

I cannot separate the man and who he really is and how he acts, from what I consider to be the bare minimum qualifications to act as a competent public servant who truly wants to do what is in the best interest of ALL Americans. I want a President who I trust and am confident in their rational intelligence and thoughtful consideration of all the facts and options, who will ultimately not make a very stupid choice and/or decision(s) in a very real national/international crisis, that will turn out to have catastrophic ramifications for all of us. Trump is not that man!

It is too soon to know who the viable candidates will be to oppose Trump in the 2020 presidential campaign. I still hold out hope that someone will eventually stand out as a serious contender, who is a relative moderate/centrist, embodying most of what I consider to be the necessary attributes for success that I listed in the other thread dedicated to speculating who will compete against Trump. I truly hope that none of us have to "pinch our noses" when we vote November 2020....

AVB-AMG
It's not hypocritical rationalization in my opinion. Everyone has to weigh pros and cons. Would you vote for an SJW, intersectionality at all costs, socialist, redistributionist candidate who has a heart of gold if their political ideology was counter to everything you believe in over a candidate with questionable morality but who not only espouses a similar political ideology to your own but has also shown several instances of action promoting said ideology?

Edit: I agree when you're talking abt primaries and you think someone with a similar political ideology to your own and who also happens to not be a douche is an option then it's a no brainer.
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      06-11-2019, 01:49 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
It's not hypocritical rationalization in my opinion. Everyone has to weigh pros and cons. Would you vote for an SJW, intersectionality at all costs, socialist, redistributionist candidate who has a heart of gold if their political ideology was counter to everything you believe in over a candidate with questionable morality but who not only espouses a similar political ideology to your own but has also shown several instances of action promoting said ideology?

Edit: I agree when you're talking abt primaries and you think someone with a similar political ideology to your own and who also happens to not be a douche is an option then it's a no brainer.
Genieman :

I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head.....
That is the unfortunate challenge we seem to have today in our country and how our political system has devolved. I certainly understand and appreciate why anyone who is truly qualified with all of the most desirable traits to run for higher political office, is completely turned off by the spectacle that political campaigns have become. Who wants to subject themselves and their families to the 24/7 fishbowl scrutiny of "gotcha" media during a campaign, as well as once you are in office. Who needs that headache?
Maybe my ideal candidate is just wishful thinking, but I do think we need to establish some minimum standards by which we determine who is truly at least eligible to run and not just because they possess the megalomaniac chromosome....

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