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03-11-2019, 04:11 PM | #485 | |
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IDK, just my experience, others will vary. I'm also at about 3700 ft. elevation in the TX summer so that hurts performance of an N/A motor as well. I think they are about 3400-ish lbs. which is right around the neighborhood of the M3. I believe my M3 was quoted at about 3415 lbs. with the SMG, manuals are a little lighter. |
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03-13-2019, 11:36 AM | #488 | |
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Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars? ![]() Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.
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03-13-2019, 11:43 AM | #489 | |
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You'd think they saved enough money having BMW do most of the R&D that they could afford it ![]() |
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03-13-2019, 12:20 PM | #490 | |
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![]() There's a reason why the B58 appears in nearly EVERY SINGLE BMW line-up. There's a reason why the INLINE 6 architecture has been in BMW's family of engines since the beginning of time. The engine is the HEART of a car. It is by far and away the most complex part of any moving vehicle that uses the internal combustion process. There's a reason why cars with bespoke engines typically cost north of 6 figures, and the first of those 6 figures don't usually start with a 1. Anyone thinking that the new Supra is going to be a commercial success at $200,000 plus is also smoking crack. Name me another car, in HISTORY of cars, that has had a brand new, completely designed from the ground up engine, that does not use some sort of existing architecture that the company already use.
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03-13-2019, 12:36 PM | #491 | |
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1999 F20C 2.0L 9000rpm 11.7 compression 250 n/a HP @8600 rpm Only available in the Honda s2000 Held the n/a specific output for 10 years Bespoke enough for you ? $29k ![]() If Toyota wanted to they could The Supra was never really what they wanted to sell It's the nx300 and Corollas and rav4s and CHRs Supra brings people into show rooms and they drive home in the Camry |
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03-13-2019, 12:57 PM | #492 | |
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NO. It's a highly tuned variant of Honda's F20 architecture. Just like the S54 is a variant of the S52 Euro block, Honda didn't have to design the F20C from scratch. They had an existing architecture that evolved into he F20C. Just like BMW's E46 M3 has a "bespoke" engine in that the S54 was only used in the E46 M3 and sparingly in the Z3 M and Z4 M. The block, architecture, design, all existed long before the F20C was placed in the S2000. Is it unique? Yeah. But if you want to claim that Toyota can just wave a magic wand and a new xJZ platform will magically appear? I've got some marshland to sell you in Florida.
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03-13-2019, 01:36 PM | #494 |
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The S54 is in absolutely no way as bespoke as the S2000's motor. Not that this has anything to do with the Zupra.
TVR has a bespoke straight six. Seems like if they could figure that out, the Camry Brigade probably could have sorted something out too. |
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03-14-2019, 02:15 PM | #495 |
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The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.
That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics. |
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03-14-2019, 02:35 PM | #496 | |
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03-14-2019, 08:05 PM | #497 | |
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All of those things are modifying an existing, and more widely used, platform to build upon. Fiber reinforcing and liners are the same thing. FRM is a form of sleaving but it's a compromise between expensive Nikasil coating and a low cost cast iron liner. It was also used in a number of other Honda performance engines. Not exactly unique. Machining a bell housing to mount a RWD transmission isn't earth shattering either. Creating a low production engine from scratch is a completely different undertaking both in engineering and cost. The casting process alone for the block would make it cost prohibitive for anything short of a super car. I'm actually a huge fan of the F20c. I swapped one into an AE86 and loved it. Its a great engine, but it's far from bespoke. |
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03-14-2019, 10:02 PM | #498 |
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03-14-2019, 10:30 PM | #499 | |
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03-15-2019, 02:03 PM | #500 | |
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The F20C was a clean slate and is only in the S2000, they designed the K Series Motor eventually based on the F20C ( They share a ton just has traditional VTEC vs i ) K = F20 w/I-VTEC more or less ( same design ) but the F20 has no other Honda motor equivalent.. Just like Nissans VR38 which is hand built for the GTR. People can hate Hondas but most of their engines are second to none, Even the B-Series which the K replaced is still a huge force to be reckoned with.
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03-15-2019, 05:18 PM | #501 | |
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Lexus needs some engine choices, a new I6 would be greatly appreciated. Also their pickups and trucks could seriously use an beefy I6. Id love to see a lexus LC with a 400/500hp I6. Id much rather a true ft1 supra with their own engine, a real toyota then the abomination they are peddling. |
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03-15-2019, 09:36 PM | #502 | |
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So without a doubt Toyota has the skill and the know how x1000 they just cheaped out which is strange for the worlds largest auto manufacturer.
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03-16-2019, 09:22 PM | #503 |
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03-18-2019, 11:28 PM | #505 |
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Just because they have holes in them doesn't mean they are functional/needed.
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03-22-2019, 12:17 AM | #506 |
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I am going to get a red one, or a gray one. It is a decently priced BMW and I like the styling. Abomination? Heck no.
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