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      01-17-2019, 04:40 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
If they are true to form Supra owners, they'll all be modded to the teeth. Which means ... more / better mods for the B58! Which I see as a good thing haha.
Thats one thing I can agree with People forget when the 2JZ and Supra were out the Japanese Yen I believe was at an all time high
and these manufactures gave their engineering teams the ok for the engineers to show off all they got.

It wasn't being constricted by the bean counters, At this time ( mid 90's ) we had :
  • Twin Turbo Z 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo w/4 wheel steering
  • Twin Turbo Supra 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo ( extremely overbuilt )
  • Twin Turbo RX7
  • Twin Turbo 3000GT 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo AWD w/4 wheel steering & active aero
All of these made between 250 & 300HP, Revved and had room for growth.
Its not just Fast and the Furious that made the cars legendary alot had to do
with the overbuilt motor and why they swap 2JZ & 1JZs into tons of cars.

Japanese engines in the 90s were typically overbuilt, I own a 1992 Turbo Sentra ( SR20 ) These motors came with 140HP and revved 7500RPM, With boost they would make 500WHP stock block.
Talk about overbuilt, An engine that came with 140HP and could do 500 WHEEL HP without even opening the block is just how some of these engines were back then.

If you spent any time at the drag strip ( I spent years there ) you would know why people love these engines and cars.

All these cars can make 1000WHP and not everyone needs 1000HP
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      01-17-2019, 05:05 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUiKSR20 View Post
Thats one thing I can agree with People forget when the 2JZ and Supra were out the Japanese Yen I believe was at an all time high
and these manufactures gave their engineering teams the ok for the engineers to show off all they got.

It wasn't being constricted by the bean counters, At this time ( mid 90's ) we had :
  • Twin Turbo Z 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo w/4 wheel steering
  • Twin Turbo Supra 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo ( extremely overbuilt )
  • Twin Turbo RX7
  • Twin Turbo 3000GT 3.0 DOHC Twin Turbo AWD w/4 wheel steering & active aero
All of these made between 250 & 300HP, Revved and had room for growth.
Its not just Fast and the Furious that made the cars legendary alot had to do
with the overbuilt motor and why they swap 2JZ & 1JZs into tons of cars.

Japanese engines in the 90s were typically overbuilt, I own a 1992 Turbo Sentra ( SR20 ) These motors came with 140HP and revved 7500RPM, With boost they would make 500WHP stock block.
Talk about overbuilt, An engine that came with 140HP and could do 500 WHEEL HP without even opening the block is just how some of these engines were back then.

If you spent any time at the drag strip ( I spent years there ) you would know why people love these engines and cars.

All these cars can make 1000WHP and not everyone needs 1000HP
Hey good info. And mind you, I wasn't saying that the 2JZ wasn't a great engine. Anything you can boost that high without blowing it apart is just amazing. I am just saying that the general public and even your average petrolhead only knows about it from the movies and it's a much smaller subset of folks like you who have had actual experience with them. Your average American gearhead at the time ... all they wanted was a V8 so didn't really appreciate how advanced the Supra of that time was and how amazing the engine. I did wonder, though, how they could afford to build engines that were both so advanced in their engineering AND so robust. I guess that time was the pinnacle of Japanese sports cars.

I guess most manufacturers are having to pour their money and resources into EV tech these days. So the S58 will probably be the most advanced I6 engine we'll see created before we either all go EV or global warm ourselves out of existence.
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      01-17-2019, 06:19 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post

So the S58 will probably be the most advanced I6 engine we'll see created before we either all go EV or global warm ourselves out of existence.
I think BMW discontinued the most advanced I6 motors around 2012, the ultralight and magnesium blocked n52 and direct injected version n53. Of course I am biased in this belief lol
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      01-17-2019, 06:35 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Hey good info. And mind you, I wasn't saying that the 2JZ wasn't a great engine. Anything you can boost that high without blowing it apart is just amazing. I am just saying that the general public and even your average petrolhead only knows about it from the movies and it's a much smaller subset of folks like you who have had actual experience with them. Your average American gearhead at the time ... all they wanted was a V8 so didn't really appreciate how advanced the Supra of that time was and how amazing the engine. I did wonder, though, how they could afford to build engines that were both so advanced in their engineering AND so robust. I guess that time was the pinnacle of Japanese sports cars.

I guess most manufacturers are having to pour their money and resources into EV tech these days. So the S58 will probably be the most advanced I6 engine we'll see created before we either all go EV or global warm ourselves out of existence.
In the end I think its the "Supra" people that will be mad more than the "BMW" Fans ( US ). All this is going to do for us is bring more aftermarket attention and also it will be nice when people start gloating over features / interior etc etc and we look back like ( yep we've had all that for years, welcome to the party ). Unfortunately they will also complain when little finicky issues German cars have arise. Toyotas are known for having little to no issues with not much more than oil changes. My parents have driven basic Toyotas that have gone 150k+ miles with almost 0 maintenance outside of tires / brakes and oil changes.
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      01-17-2019, 06:53 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post

So the S58 will probably be the most advanced I6 engine we'll see created before we either all go EV or global warm ourselves out of existence.
I think BMW discontinued the most advanced I6 motors around 2012, the ultralight and magnesium blocked n52 and direct injected version n53. Of course I am biased in this belief lol
I have a N54 (ZHP) does that count?
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      01-17-2019, 06:55 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
The air vents can actually be functional "The holes are there to be used" LOLOL

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...ts-functional/
Not sure if you're making fun of it or not. I see it as a nod to all the Supra faithful who are going to buy this and mod the snot out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotechnology View Post
I don't have a problem with the looks or the specs. I like it. I do have a problem with the gall and sheer nerve Toyota has to call this car a Supra and not offer it in manual. Don't care if they're talking about possibly adding it in the future. Should NEVER have been engineered without a manual in mind from the outset. This is such an epic fail!
Are you a Toyota insider? Do you know that they did not have plans to offer a manual all along? Please keep in mind that we manual lovers are a small and shrinking segment; holding us at bay is a way to keep the sales numbers up over a longer period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-aec View Post
Seems the masses are too quick to pass judgement. Eagerly waiting for performance data and driving impressions from trusted auto journalist. I'm hoping they built a coherent performance vehicle. I see a lot of potential in this car...
Latest R&T print edition includes a review of the Z4. They're noncommittal on the looks but loved the drive.
I'm making fun of the quote but otherwise i think it's awesome. I love how customizable is this car

I'm 90% sure I'll become an A90 Supra owner. Maybe not in the first year but this car is killing the segment
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      01-17-2019, 07:25 PM   #271
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I recall some people were thinking about buying the Supra for the hardtop, and then doing a front end swap.



Just for shit and giggles, the Z4 with the Supra front.

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      01-17-2019, 08:28 PM   #272
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I recall some people were thinking about buying the Supra for the hardtop, and then doing a front end swap.


Just seeing how little they changed on most of the stuff, Would be awesome if just a fender / hood / headlights / bumper swap could get you this coupe...

Its been done before many times on other cars ie Golf / Jetta, Civic / Integra etc.

I dont think anyone would complain with that photoshop above, Pretty much a modern day Z4Coupe.... The interior with a steering wheel swap and a quick coding of the Infotainment and its pure BMW inside.
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      01-17-2019, 08:53 PM   #273
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Odd, pics aren't showing up. Here is the link.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/wha...ch-faces.1561/
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      01-18-2019, 12:15 AM   #274
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Confirmed the standard "German Car Bolts" are used to secure the wheels vs the typical studs.



https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehi...rid-gallery/12
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      01-18-2019, 07:50 AM   #275
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My OCD gets triggered by the lack of alignment between the climate control segment, the 1-8 presets, the hazard button, and the control display. Why is everything on a different plane? 🤷🏻*♂️
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      01-18-2019, 07:51 AM   #276
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Central tach... Nice!!
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      01-18-2019, 09:18 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUiKSR20 View Post
Confirmed the standard "German Car Bolts" are used to secure the wheels vs the typical studs.



https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehi...rid-gallery/12
It looks to me like Supra is using the 340mm bmw brakes and not the 370mm brakes?

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      01-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #278
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I dont think anyone would complain with that photoshop above, Pretty much a modern day Z4Coupe.... The interior with a steering wheel swap and a quick coding of the Infotainment and its pure BMW inside.[/QUOTE]

some of tge trying too hard bulges vents creases remain though

a true z4 coupe would have a much cleaner look and at least one buyer for sure
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      01-18-2019, 01:04 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My OCD gets triggered by the lack of alignment between the climate control segment, the 1-8 presets, the hazard button, and the control display. Why is everything on a different plane? 🤷🏻*♂️
Agree.
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      01-18-2019, 01:57 PM   #280
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Central tac = cool
Auto only = might as well put a center mounted fuel guage
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      01-18-2019, 02:16 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Dogeeseegod View Post
Central tac = cool
Auto only = might as well put a center mounted fuel guage
Unfortunately all 3 series in the next gen are auto only, There isnt many manuals left.. The end is coming fast with Dual Clutch boxes being faster and more efficient albeit less engaging for us enthusiasts who prefer a manual.
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      01-18-2019, 04:41 PM   #282
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I find it annoying that when I googled new Supra brake sizes every review includes the size of the nav screen on the Supra and none the brake sizes. That’s all people care about now is how big are the entertainment screens in their sports cars!?!?

No wonder they aren’t making an Manual... who has a hand for that when you are busy fingering apps on your giant nav screen.

So I made this collage. All the wheels are 19” and equaled for size. It looks to me like the 340mm front bmw brakes on the Supra.


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      01-18-2019, 05:16 PM   #283
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Well, your point is still a good one vs market. The sports car market is tiny compared to 20 years ago also.

I guess people were expecting the new Supra to me more of a Skyline GTR. Even Nissan admits that Godzilla is a hard car to keep developing for the small number sold globally.

I'm not sure what else the Supra could have been. A more Toyota/Lexus interior? A more Lexus feel to the ride? Even though they've proven that outside of the LFA have struggled to design a sporty suspension. The turbo has finally been embraced, and then there is the issue of engine design.

Developing an engine costs billions. In the case of a bespoke engine for a Supra, those billions couldn't be recovered since it wouldn't go into other vehicles across the family lines. To their defense, Toyota is working on electric motors and battery tech in R&D, so an engine for a sports car was likely far from their minds, thus this mashup.

I don't know, does seem weird that Toyota hardly touched the car under the hood. Guess they know that their fans really want a BMW.
Come on Toyota is the wealthiest car maker in the world and any I6 if they build one would have trickled down to there other cars. Lexus F cars would be the obvious answer.

What the mkv should have been you ask. 08 ISF, diet RCF or LC. Or the 2014 IS rwd with a proper engine.

Hell id rather they bring back the Supra as a full blow EV sports car with awesome performance then this turd.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Something I didn't know until I read an article about the Mk4 Supra is that the US sales were abysmal. Chevy sold more Vettes in a year than the entire run of the Mk4, even though the Supra was a much more advanced car. It's no surprise they discontinued the it and didn't bother to do a new version, with sales numbers that low.

Had it not been for "That Movie(s)" the Supra would have probably been relegated to the dust bin of history, save for the precious few who owned / raced one of them. Now, it seems, just like there are more people who have claimed to been at Woodstock than ever went, seems that there are way more Supra "purists" than ever actually owned one. People have their torches and pitchforks out without ever actually driven the thing ... heck we haven't really gotten full reviews of it yet. But some people have made up their minds on the principle of the thing.

Seems that they must have appealed to people outside of the armchair purists, from what I've seen reported the first year's allotment is almost sold out already.

I'm not saying there are things I personally would want to see different about this car before I'd want to buy one. I do rather like the B58 and appreciate a RWD car with 50/50 weight distribution. But I'd rather less fake vents, manual, back seat and a usable trunk - but hey there's a car for that - a M240i and I already have one!

Let's say they built the car that the armchair purists wanted - it would have cost a whole lot more and basically would have been in the same segment as their Lexus LC, of which they sold like 12? It would be yet another car that folks appreciated existed, but hardly anyone actually bought. I was shocked to see how few of the new NXSeses have actually sold, even though as a former Acura guy I appreciate that they "did it right".

At the end of the day, we've got a new RWD sports coupe out there, that seems like it will sell well. Hopefully it will encourage car makers to keep making cars like that ... and they might get rid of some of the fake vents and add a manual in subsequent years.

Oh here's the article I mentioned, found it interesting.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/25959/w...oyota-gr-supra
Sales would have been fine but the Japanese economy took a dump Yen went up screwing exports. MKIV was to be 25/30k car but went u to around 40. that extra 15k was a colossal difference in early 90s to pay for a sports car.

It sold 45k in Japan alone. Exchange rate screwed sales every where else.

Supra is a legend cause it smashed everything the movie had shit all to do with it. Plus FF is the GTrs franchise not the Supras.

I like the NSX as you do, i just don't get who the hell its aimed at given the performance and price. Plus i wish it looked more like the predecessor and not so bland.
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      01-18-2019, 09:10 PM   #284
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Wow that's a popular forum discussion ... believe it or not it is about a Toyota
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      01-18-2019, 09:30 PM   #285
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i'll be honest. this "Z4 Coupe" render looks really really good.

give it an S58 + the proper Z4M treatment.. omg how id love to own one.
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      01-19-2019, 11:23 AM   #286
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