BMW, VW and Mercedes accused of collusion

[Jason]

BIMMERPOST NEWS

BMW, VW and Mercedes accused of collusion

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Via Bloomberg

July 21, 2017

German Carmakers Can't Catch a Break as Next Scandal Looms Large

Another week, another scare from the German car industry.

What began with Daimler AG’s massive recall of more than 3 million diesel cars to lower their emissions, ended on Friday with Audi also embarking on a voluntary recall of 850,000 vehicles. Adding to the spate of bad news was a report in Der Spiegel magazine that the biggest car manufacturers -- Daimler, BMW AG and Volkswagen AG as well as VW’s Audi and Porsche brands -- may have colluded for decades on technology. The companies declined to comment.

Shares of BMW, VW and Daimler tumbled on the report, which cited a document submitted by Volkswagen in July 2016 and referenced another from Daimler. The German cartel office said in a statement that it searched the car companies last year as part of a probe into a possible steel cartel. It didn’t elaborate on a possible follow-up probe on car technology, saying it can’t comment on ongoing investigations.

For almost two years now, the German car industry has sought to get out from underneath the cloud of the diesel scandal that erupted first at VW and has cost it billions in fines and has since threatened to engulf other carmakers, tainting the image of German engineering and hurting the industry that’s among the country’s biggest employers. The scandal comes as automakers wrestle with an unprecedented technology shift in the industry, with electronic cars made by Tesla Inc. or Toyota Motor Corp. finding more buyers and German manufacturers trying to catch up with the battery-powered vehicle trend.

200 Employees

According to the Spiegel report, the five German car brands met starting in the 1990s to coordinate activities related to their vehicle technology, costs, suppliers and strategy as well as emissions controls in diesel engines. The discussions involved more than 200 employees in 60 working groups in areas including auto development, gasoline and diesel motors, brakes and transmissions. Talks may have also involved the size of tanks for AdBlue fluid for diesel autos, the magazine reported, which is at the heart of the emissions case.

“These allegations look very serious and would mean more than 20 years of potential collusion,” said Juergen Pieper, a Frankfurt-based analyst with Bankhaus Metzler. “There seems to be a never ending story of bad news about the industry’s bad behavior.”

Volkswagen fell as much as 4.9 percent, while shares of Daimler, the maker of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, declined as much as 3.2 percent and BMW slid 3.4 percent.

Mercedes has struggled to shake off allegations that it also tampered with emissions standards, an accusation the company has routinely rebuffed and said last week it would legally contest. Still, Daimler announced a surprise recall on Tuesday, following a meeting with German government officials last week to discuss emissions technology. Audi followed on Friday with its own recall to update the software in Euro 5 and Euro 6 engines.

Bridging Gap

European carmakers are shoring up diesel because they need it to bridge the gap between tightening rules for greenhouse-gas emissions and ramping up electric-car plans. Authorities are scrutinizing the technology after Volkswagen admitted in September 2015 to rigging cars to cheat on emissions tests. Cities such as Paris, Madrid and Mexico City are looking into banning the models because of air pollution concerns.

According to the cartel office, the raid took place exactly a year ago and targeted six carmakers and suppliers. Der Spiegel said that the follow-up probe was essentially a by-product of that raid, which involved 50 employees of the cartel authority, aided by local police and regional law-enforcement officers.

The Spiegel article said that one aim of the collusion was to obstruct competition, with the carmakers agreeing on costs for components or technical details such as convertible roofs.

“The allegations are quite detailed, so it’s unlikely there’s this much smoke without fire,” said Christian Ludwig, an analyst at Bankhaus Lampe in Germany, who estimates any fines could run into the billions. “In the current environment, that’s a another hit.”

[paulo_f80m3]

I love my 15' X3 xDrive28d M-Sport.. No complaints. Solid vehicle with a fantastic ride and great a range of 500+ on a single tank.

[DeeKay]

Originally Posted by paulo_f80m3

I love my 15' X3 xDrive28d M-Sport.. No complaints. Solid vehicle with a fantastic ride and great a range of 500+ on a single tank.

I have a 2013 320d and absolutely love it. It?s way more powerful than I can explorer without loosing my license and took me from Copenhagen all the way to Switzerland on our way to Italy on our European holiday road trip. Amazing car and range

[yogajitsu]

They colluded with Trump and the Russians

[LBBF87]

Originally Posted by yogajitsu

They colluded with Trump and the Russians

Wouldnt be the first ones.

[raysspl]

Not surprised to hear

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by LBBF87

Wouldnt be the first ones.

or the last..

[LBBF87]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

or the last..

Kayne 2020?

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by paulo_f80m3

I love my 15' X3 xDrive28d M-Sport.. No complaints. Solid vehicle with a fantastic ride and great a range of 500+ on a single tank.

Same here, much love for my 2017 X5 35d M-Sport. No complaints at all. I'm going Green so I'll get rid of my 330 for Tesla Model 3 in a few months.

[SCOTT26]

BMW AG has already issued a statement detailing its involvement.
However some are running that the collusion stems with the whole diesel gate issue which BMW AG has already been cleared of having its vehicles tested by various institutes who found no altering software.

[cncmastr]

I'm confused. Car makers worked together on projects, isn't that called a partnership? Or joint venture? Where is the conspiracy here?

[scostu]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

[FuriousLucy]

Leftist thought police are making their way into our car club. Collusion is not a crime, CONSPIRACY is a crime, w/ quid pro quo.

[cncmastr]

Originally Posted by scostu

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

Thanks, I didn't say I didn't know what collusion was. The article points to topics like gas tanks, and really nothing else as to what was colluded on, making this seem like a whole lot of empty story.

[scostu]

Originally Posted by cncmastr

Thanks, I didn't say I didn't know what collusion was. The article points to topics like gas tanks, and really nothing else as to what was colluded on, making this seem like a whole lot of empty story.

Wasn't aimed at you.

I just inserted so others that were not keen to what collusion actually "is".....could read up.

My post just happened to be after your post as that was when I noticed this thread.

Also...... I WOULD NEVER INSULT another sportwagonner!

[cncmastr]

Originally Posted by scostu

Wasn't aimed at you.

I just inserted so others that were not keen to what collusion actually "is".....could read up.

My post just happened to be after your post as that was when I noticed this thread.

Also...... I WOULD NEVER INSULT another sportwagonner!

High-fünfer!!

[antzcrashing]

I have no idea why this is even news. Does not anyone with business sense realize that competitors collaborate to edge the littler rivals? In usa GE, phillips, others just have underhand agreements not to sue each other and share patents. Welcome to the global economy people, its a scary world that you cant win without alliances. The only thing i could imagine would be illegal here is price fixing, but I dont see that in the article, nor would that work well given they complete with japanese automakers , korean, us, etc

Are we just in a generation of outrage over everything? Now what vw did with emissions is different, they should be ashamed, and deserve the consequences

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by yogajitsu

They colluded with Trump and the Russians

Yeah - and hopefully they were smart enough to use their personal email accounts as well!!

(Not taking political sides either way - just couldn't resist taking the joke another step)...

[DCG]

Ford and Deisel never intended cars to use gasoline.

Henry Ford's first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, 'grown from the soil,' had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.

Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp; he actually ran the thing on peanut oil for the 1900 World's Fair. Henry Ford used hemp to not only construct cars but also fuel them.

As an alternative to methanol, hemp has at least one glowing report: the plant produces up to four times more cellulose per acre than trees. And a hemp crop grows a little quicker than a forest.

As for an alternative to petroleum...

Hemp grows like mad from border to border in America; so shortages are unlikely. And, unlike petrol, unless we run out of soil, hemp is renewable.

Growing and harvesting the stuff has much less environmental impact than procuring oil.

Hemp fuel is biodegradable; so oil spills become fertilizer not eco-catastrophes.

Hemp fuel does not contribute to sulfur dioxide air poisoning.

Other noxious emissions like carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons are radically slashed by using "biodiesel.

Hemp fuel is nontoxic and only a mild skin irritant; anybody who,s ever cleaned out an old carburetor with gasoline can confirm the same is not true for petrol.

Growing hemp for fuel would be a tremendous boon for American farmers and the agricultural industry, as opposed to people like, say, the Bush family.

And that,s why hemp might not go anywhere as a fuel alternative. Oil interests are big and donate likewise to politicians, and selling a man on an idea that will cost him more than he,ll benefit requires an amazingly skilled orator - or a gun. Unfortunately, unless you,re the federal government, gunpoint conversions are usually illegal. Ergo, PR is about the best bet right now.

There are many people working hard on this front, including the Hemp Car and its intrepid crew. Currently ginning up for a trans-America evangelism tour, the Hemp Car plans to spread the good word of hemp-fuel viability at stops in both the U.S. and Canada.

For whatever good it will do, they should make sure to stop by Washington, D.C., and have a word with President George W. Bush. The current oil crisis and our nation,s dependency on sometimes-persnickety foreign sources might find the new chief executive with an open mind to fuel sources other than Texas tea - regardless of his oily bank accounts. And, while salvaging his dad's legacy is not Goal 1 for Dubya, it might also help him look more forward thinking in terms of energy policy and the environment.

Of course, hemp fuel may never take off. It might dry up like all those hemp crops left unattended after the feds banned their cultivation in the 1930s. One way or the other, Bush should consider freeing up the market to innovate with alternative fuels like hemp oil -- it couldn,t hurt, and it stands the chance to help. In so doing, he,ll end his term with a far better moniker than the "environmental president." For, if other policy decisions he makes go in a similar direction, we can perhaps call him the "free-market president."

Fuel of the Future

When Henry Ford told a New York Times reporter that ethyl alcohol was "the fuel of the future" in 1925, he was expressing an opinion that was widely shared in the automotive industry. "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust - almost anything," he said. "There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."

Ford recognized the utility of the hemp plant. He constructed a car of resin stiffened hemp fiber, and even ran the car on ethanol made from hemp. Ford knew that hemp could produce vast economic resources if widely cultivated.

Ford's optimistic appraisal of cellulose and crop based ethyl alcohol fuel can be read in several ways. First, it can be seen as an oblique jab at a competitor. General Motors had come to considerable grief that summer of 1925 over another octane boosting fuel called tetra-ethyl lead, and government officials had been quietly in touch with Ford engineers about alternatives to leaded gasoline additives. Secondly, by 1925 the American farms that Ford loved were facing an economic crisis that would later intensify with the depression. Although the causes of the crisis were complex, one possible solution was seen in creating new markets for farm products. With Ford's financial and political backing, the idea of opening up industrial markets for farmers would be translated into a broad movement for scientific research in agriculture that would be labelled "Farm Chemurgy." 2

Why Henry's plans were delayed for more than a half century:

Ethanol has been known as a fuel for many decades. Indeed, when Henry Ford designed the Model T, it was his expectation that ethanol, made from renewable biological materials, would be a major automobile fuel. However, gasoline emerged as the dominant transportation fuel in the early twentieth century because of the ease of operation of gasoline engines with the materials then available for engine construction, a growing supply of cheaper petroleum from oil field discoveries, and intense lobbying by petroleum companies for the federal government to maintain steep alcohol taxes. Many bills proposing a National energy program that made use of Americas vast agricultural resources (for fuel production) were killed by smear campaigns launched by vested petroleum interests. One noteworthy claim put forth by petrol companies was that the U.S. government's plans "robbed taxpayers to make farmers rich".

http://www.hempcar.org/ford.shtml

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by DCG

Must Watch: Who Killed the Electric Car? (2006) Documentary and the follow up to it Revenge of the Electric Car (2011).

General Motors took back all the GM EV-1 from all their customers as well as the Honda EV-Plus and destroyed all vehicles to suppress the advanced electric technology in 1997. All are in bed with the oil companies as they got them by the balls. It's up to us as consumers and as the human race to vote with our dollars and scream for newer technologys to come in to the marketplace quicker so we can preserve our environment and our precious fresh air and water as the global population continues to increase rapidly.

The Bush family made all their money from oil, and Dick Cheney with Halliburton. Why would they have wanted new technology released while they were in office and in power. And by the way some oil companies provide our U.S. Military with free oil, it's a vicious cycle.

There's a guy in France that came out with a car that ran on compressed air. And there's also technology that people have been killed for such as a car that can run on water (H2O). Hell even Henry Ford created the first Model T engine to run on hemp and peanut oil.

We must wean ourselves off of fossil fuel's asap!

Since electric power plants use oil and natural gas to generate electricity, and electric cars are not as efficient as gasoline or diesel, it would make sense that the oil/gas companies would be giddy at the prospect of electric cars?

Your post (like the movie), is a bit "tin foil hat...."

[GMe90]

155 mph speed limit on all of their cars probably doesn't help their case.