2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - Ignition Ep. 168

[DocWeatherington]

[TheElementalCashew]

I traded my F80 for the new ZL1. They may be similarly priced cars, but the ZL1 belongs in a whole different category.

[DAJAN_M3]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

I traded my F80 for the new ZL1. They may be similarly priced cars, but the ZL1 belongs in a whole different category.

FBO F80 + E85 any match for a stock 17' ZL1 ?

[Vigilante375]

A FBO F80 will probably win in a straight line. But then that's an apple to orange comparison.

The ZL1 will always be faster stock for stock and mod for mod.

That 10 speed seems awesome but I'm waiting to see how it holds up on the road course. I do not see why GM/Ford/Dodge won't make a actual DCT. Freaking hard headed is what they are.

[jpdchicago]

It is still a Camaro. I am sure 911 GT3 owners could not care less even though they keep comparing it to Porsche in terms of performance.
Even at 1/3 the price...

Right on comparing it to corvette grand sport (similar customer base and pricing)

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

I traded my F80 for the new ZL1. They may be similarly priced cars, but the ZL1 belongs in a whole different category.

Can you post a comparo between the two please.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

It is still a Camaro. I am sure 911 GT3 owners could not care less even though they keep comparing it to Porsche in terms of performance.
Even at 1/3 the price...

Right on comparing it to corvette grand sport (similar customer base and pricing)

Don't be mad

[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

A FBO F80 will probably win in a straight line. But then that's an apple to orange comparison.

The ZL1 will always be faster stock for stock and mod for mod.

That 10 speed seems awesome but I'm waiting to see how it holds up on the road course. I do not see why GM/Ford/Dodge won't make a actual DCT. Freaking hard headed is what they are.

probably a cost constraint among other things. I bet producing a DCT that could withstand the type of power the ZL1 produces would drive the price of the car up too much.

[Mingwan]

What's contributing to this car weighing almost 2 tons?

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by DAJAN_M3

FBO F80 + E85 any match for a stock 17' ZL1 ?

I'd expect it would be more than a match, especially in a straight line with some decent tires. I'm not sure sort of power an FBO+E85 F8x is putting down, but the new ZL1s are coming in around 550whp stock, and have a few extra pounds on them.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

What's contributing to this car weighing almost 2 tons?

Big engine, big cooling, big brakes, big diff, big suspension, big wheels.

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

Can you post a comparo between the two please.

For starters, I have the 6-speed transmission, not the A10, and my F80 was a manual as well. I am not posting this to bash BMW, I'll be the first to admit I'm a long time GM fan and am just posting my personal thoughts and observations. If anyone would like additional thoughts or pictures, I'll provide what I can.

Looks: I loved the way the F80 looked, but I loved the sharp, aggressive look of the ZL1 even more. Very subjective. If you don't like suede, you won't like the interior of the ZL1; there is alcantara everywhere. The red accent stitching and red seat belts are nice touches and go great with my color car, but are not customize-able from the factory (right now) with other colors. I am not a huge fan of the ZL1 wheel design. I may end up going aftermarket, or at least to the 1LE wheels, which are the same size.



Comfort: the F80 was pretty comfortable, I never had any complaints with it other than the seats were a bit hard for long drives. It was nice to have four doors and the extra space in the back if more people wanted to ride along. That being said, the ZL1 Recaros absolutely blow the F80 (non-comp) seats out of the water. The two fronts seats feel more like being in a cockpit than in a car, and the visibility takes some getting used to. The rear seats are useless unless you are below 5'6" tall. I'm 6'1" and the driver seat leaves an inch or two of space for the seat behind. I don't have kids and it is a weekend car, so these things don't bother me. Oh, and the trunk is spacious, but has a weirdly small opening. Again, not a big deal for me. I found the ZL1 cabin to be much quieter as far as road noise goes, even with the bigger tires.

Handling: I never was a big fan of the F80 handling. The different suspension modes didn't feel very different from each other, and the car often felt pretty floaty at higher speeds. I had plans for suspension work before I traded the car in. I have the same complaints about the steering feel as many people who drive these cars. A big reason I got rid of the F80 was the general twitchiness and unpredictability of the car. I never could find a good way to drive the car where it felt stable and like I was confidently in control. A lot of that also has to do with the motor's power delivery, which I'll address later.
The magnetic ride on the ZL1 is pretty great. The compliance/feel is very noticeable in the different driving modes. Around corners, you don't feel the weight of the car at all, and the car feels firmly planted to the ground at all speeds. That being said, when you want to kick the rear end out, it will easily do that and let you have fun in a very controlled manner. I could mash the gas pedal from a stop and leave two straight, black lines on the pavement as long I stay in it. With my M3, it was constantly a fight to keep the car from spinning around.
The brakes on the M3 were ok (non-carbon), nothing to write home about. The huge Brembos on the ZL1 are awesome and really inspire confidence when braking hard.

Power: we are comparing a twin-turbo inline-6 to a supercharged V-8, so I assume most people are aware of the differences. The M3 motor is an impressive piece of work, but the power delivery leaves a lot to be desired. Lots of torque available down low is not always a good thing (IMO), especially when the car is fitted with (comparatively) skinny tires and a twitchy chassis. And the sound...well, I made the M3 a bit better with an exhaust, but I never liked it, just dealt with it.
The LT4 on the ZL1 is also a work of art, and that supercharger whine... The stock exhaust on the ZL1 is simply fantastic. It roars when you press the gas, and gets so quiet when you want it to. It is also valved, like the M3, but I didn't notice nearly as much difference in sound in the various modes as I did with the M3. I didn't realize how much I missed that V8 sound until I heard it again.

Fit/finish: despite being rather spartan (again, IMO), I did especially like the quality of the M3 interior. The leather was pretty great, and having the option for full leather really sweetened the deal. As would be expected, some parts of the ZL1, such as the dash, are just a plain, hard plastic and don't really inspire thoughts of luxury. I am a big fan of suede, so I like the ZL1 interior just fine. I'll mention again, the Recaros are just a pleasure to sit in. My M3 MSRP was $74K, and the ZL1 MSRP was $67K, so I guess the interior quality could be reflected in the price difference.

Features: the thing I'll miss the most from the M3 is the LED headlights. The ZL1 has HIDs, but the LEDs were my favorite part about the F80. That being said, the ZL1 has many more standard options, things that I think should come with a vehicle with the BMWs high price tag. Things like launch control, line lock, CarPlay, wireless phone charging, HUD, side blind zone alerts (thank God for these btw, the blind spots on the ZL1 are huge), cross-traffic alerts, etc. The ZL1 is just a much better equipped package out of the box. I'm a big fan of Chevy's MyLink, and not a big fan of iDrive (to be fair, I did not have the newer version), I find the functionality to be much more simple and highly featured. I realize that is rather subjective as well.

Some might say I am just a shitty driver and don't deserve to drive an M3. That may be, I don't claim to be a professional and just like to have fun on the weekends. I had a hard time having fun with the F80, and that was ultimately the reason it had to go.

[Octane]

Nice review. Thank you.

The thing that annoy me the most about my manual M3 is the way it is geared. For everyday driving, shifting out of first happens way to quickly - often not even across an intersection - without winding it up. Shifting out of 1st is almost never smooth. Also, 3000+ RPM at highway speeds in 6th is a waste.

Do you find the same gearing characteristics in your ZL1?

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by Octane

Nice review. Thank you.

The thing that annoy me the most about my manual M3 is the way it is geared. For everyday driving, shifting out of first happens way to quickly - often not even across an intersection - without winding it up. Shifting out of 1st is almost never smooth. Also, 3000+ RPM at highway speeds in 6th is a waste.

Do you find the same gearing characteristics in your ZL1?

You are right, that was a small thing about the M3 gearing that was weird to me. Looking up the gear ratios for M3 vs ZL1, it looks like the M3 is much, much steeper in first. 4.055 vs 2.29. Supposedly, the 6-speed ZL1 will do 60mph in 1st gear. Haven't tried that yet...

But in answer to your question, no, the gearing is quite different.

6th gear in the ZL1 is something like .54. It is theorized that it is because of this sixth gear ratio that the manual transmission ZL1s are unable to hit 200mph.

[Octane]

Thank you

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

I traded my F80 for the new ZL1. They may be similarly priced cars, but the ZL1 belongs in a whole different category.

Thanks for the review

[pz619]

Originally Posted by DAJAN_M3

FBO F80 + E85 any match for a stock 17' ZL1 ?

Not in the warranty department, but anyways, you're comparing a modded car versus stock. I'm sure a modded ZL1 would outperform the F80.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

It is still a Camaro. I am sure 911 GT3 owners could not care less even though they keep comparing it to Porsche in terms of performance.
Even at 1/3 the price...

Right on comparing it to corvette grand sport (similar customer base and pricing)

Uh huh, just a lowly Camaro that can keep pace with the "almighty" exotic's.

At least regular people have a chance at owning such a capable car and not have to deal with limited stock or finding no dealers that add $50k+ on top of MSRP to a car.

Comparing a car to a similar customer base? No. That's plain ignorant and someone who's scared to admit that a car like the Camaro can actually compare to a exotic in the terms of performance.

Thanks for the writeup Elemental. Are you getting ready to take it out to the track or road course in the near future?

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Uh huh, just a lowly Camaro that can keep pace with the "almighty" exotic's.

At least regular people have a chance at owning such a capable car and not have to deal with limited stock or finding no dealers that add $50k+ on top of MSRP to a car.

Comparing a car to a similar customer base? No. That's plain ignorant and someone who's scared to admit that a car like the Camaro can actually compare to a exotic in the terms of performance.

Thanks for the writeup Elemental. Are you getting ready to take it out to the track or road course in the near future?

I do not drive a 911 GT3 or GT3 RS and cannot afford one either. I am just saying the typical 911 owner is not going to cross shop for a Camaro and vice versa.
The only exception for the 911 buyer might be the Corvette Z06.
Nothing against Camaros or Mustangs. They are great sport cars that can be bought on an average salary and not just limited to the top .0000001%. That is a huge plus for any car afficionado. We need more cars like those, not less.
Comparing a Camaro to a 911 GT3 or a McLaren based on performance alone is just weird...Sure did not mean to offend anyone.

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Uh huh, just a lowly Camaro that can keep pace with the "almighty" exotic's.

At least regular people have a chance at owning such a capable car and not have to deal with limited stock or finding no dealers that add $50k+ on top of MSRP to a car.

Comparing a car to a similar customer base? No. That's plain ignorant and someone who's scared to admit that a car like the Camaro can actually compare to a exotic in the terms of performance.

Thanks for the writeup Elemental. Are you getting ready to take it out to the track or road course in the near future?

To your point about dealer markups, I did run into a couple dealerships, in San Antonio and Austin, that were asking $5K-$10K over MSRP for manual transmission ZL1s. I drove to Houston and was able to get $4K below MSRP.

I'm not a big drag strip guy, but I do hope to get to COTA or another track with the local BMW group here. They are a pretty good group of folks and didn't boot me from the group after they found out I "betrayed" BMW. I spend a lot of time overseas for work though, so we'll see if track time becomes a reality.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

I do not drive a 911 GT3 or GT3 RS and cannot afford one either. I am just saying the typical 911 owner is not going to cross shop for a Camaro and vice versa.
The only exception for the 911 buyer might be the Corvette Z06.
Nothing against Camaros or Mustangs. They are great sport cars that can be bought on an average salary and not just limited to the top .0000001%. That is a huge plus for any car afficionado. We need more cars like those, not less.
Comparing a Camaro to a 911 GT3 or a McLaren based on performance alone is just weird...Sure did not mean to offend anyone.

There are still car guys who are just car guys. A guy a few doors down from my folks has a GT3 RS, an RS5, a Z28 and an Abarth parked in front. Kinda curious what's in the garage.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

I do not drive a 911 GT3 or GT3 RS and cannot afford one either. I am just saying the typical 911 owner is not going to cross shop for a Camaro and vice versa.
The only exception for the 911 buyer might be the Corvette Z06.
Nothing against Camaros or Mustangs. They are great sport cars that can be bought on an average salary and not just limited to the top .0000001%. That is a huge plus for any car afficionado. We need more cars like those, not less.
Comparing a Camaro to a 911 GT3 or a McLaren based on performance alone is just weird...Sure did not mean to offend anyone.

No problem. It's just irritating that now that a Camaro is able to perform at or near the level of exotics that people start to throw, it's just a ______ line around.

If I surely had money to spare, I'd buy all kinds of cars to mess around with. Those with the money just go after what everyone else has and bash those that don't try to get on their level.