Moral Question...

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by Douche

What exactly caught your attention? (Because you quoted several posts)

I heard the same from a ho on a boulevard...


She then got beat by her pimp. Apparently rinsing time was not billable hours...

That was funny.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I suppose i should apologize for sounding harsh. I've had to deal with a lot of people recently who think their kid is just going to be the perfect little human with abounding undying love for their parents and all people around them. No chance of them becoming one of the many scumbags of our current society. No chance of them experiencing some unfortunate medical diagnosis or being the victim of a heinous crime, or a freak accident. These people make little gods of their children and it typically doesn't end well for anyone because worshiping your kids does a disservice to all involved.

Sara, (prime example) you think your kid is going to hold the same level of love and compassion for her father as she does for you? No chance that you may inadvertently influence her to possibly think negatively of her father due to his actions? Even without your influence you think she'll love her father equally when she starts to believe he abandoned you guys? How much love and kisses and hand holding will he have on his deathbed by your daughter? Sure there is a chance she'll grow up super well adjusted and forgive any wrong doings she may manifest due to your attitude towards him. But statistically, the odds are heavily against that. Bottom line is that i doubt you'd grantee your ex that his youngest daughter will be there for him on his deathbed. Or is that ok since he wan't there for her when she was young? Which begs the question, if someone is a working all hours of the day and night to provide for his family and ISN'T there for their kids in the early parts of their lives, does that absolve the kid from being there for that parent on their deathbed?

I don't think death and illness is the norm, perhaps it is personal experience that just happens to be that way, most kids ARE 100% healthy nowadays.. mentally, erm perhaps I may be skewed in my own way, I would say everyone is fucked up somewhat, just to differing degrees and in differing respects.
How you are treated by your children, when the roles are reversed, I'd like to believe, is directly dependent on how you treated them from 0-18yrs.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Sara504

I dont blame her. He's the same way when we lived together. He'll say one thing and COMPLETELY not remember it and say it was something different. Thats why Im sueing him for child support in the form of garnishment. Because every fucking month he changes our oral agreement "what I never said you can have this much" is his answer every single time. Even though I have the screen shots of the texts messages with our agreement. Im done. Im so effing done.

He sounds so bad you have ask yourself what you saw in him
I think the same way about my ex now.. but she was just a pair of tits and a wet hole now.
See the harsh reality, or live it everyday.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Douche

You are not bat shit crazy.

But you took offence when I told you to seek counselling to speak about things that bother you so you could resolve their root cause. Everybody benefits from counselling, not only "damaged" people. And it would be much better than asking advice from strangers on a car forum.

That was probably the best advice I've given, and I was truthful when I gave it. But I think you were only offended by it. What can I do...

You're not crazy. You've been through rough stuff, as many of us have. Talking about it with somebody who has your interests at heart and is licenced to do it would be great for you. Not only for you. For everybody who seeks counselling.

Are you trying to convince yourself to have therapy... or are you just a really crappy counselor?
Sorry, Douche. I couldn't help it.. perhaps you can tell me why I have a need to put down others in such a way?

Yes, that underlined part really offends me. Don't assume everyone is as shitty or crappy as you are. There are people who actually hold themselves to a standard, have expectations of themselves.

[Douche]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Are you trying to convince yourself to have therapy... or are you just a really crappy counselor?
Sorry, Douche. I couldn't help it.. perhaps you can tell me why I have a need to put down others in such a way?

Yes, that underlined part really offends me. Don't assume everyone is as shitty or crappy as you are. There are people who actually hold themselves to a standard, have expectations of themselves.

I'm actually glad I offended you then. I'm no English teacher; so sorry I can't help you.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Douche

I'm actually glad I offended you then. I'm no English teacher; so sorry I can't help you.

Free advice, since you don't believe in it:
Ask yourself why you need to be a douche all the time.

[Douche]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Free advice, since you don't believe in it:
Ask yourself why you need to be a douche all the time.

I'm not a douche all the time.

And when I'm joking you're the one who thinks I'm a douche. So the free advice is to you to look into why words written by a stranger offend you.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Xtabi

The facts:

I get a month off work (paid) for paternity leave.
Due date is August 10th.
I have one year to take the time off post birth.

The question:

Would it be wrong if I waited for my production date and the subsequent reception of my M3 to take the time off?

I don't believe this is a moral question, unless you want to have a full fledged existential crisis, in which case getting this thread kicked to OT is a blessing in disguise.

Practically, your thoughts should consider:

1. What do you want actually want to do, see the car or see the baby?
2. Okay, you have some fucked up values ..
3. have existential crisis...
4. I lied

Guess there is no point in saying "J/K".. congrats on the baby, and the car too.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Douche

I'm not a douche all the time.

And when I'm joking you're the one who thinks I'm a douche. So the free advice is to you to look into why words written by a stranger offend you.

Why do you have to pretend you are joking when obviously you're not?
I am offended just talking to you, as I fear your shittiness will smudge off on me.
So for me, I guess excellence = survival.
Thanks douche, you're a good counselor.. or I am an excellent patient.

btw. I can work with you through your issues too if you'd like, don't be shy.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

You live in a nice little fantasy world. More than 90% of the people in this country die alone. Alone in the hospital, alone in the nursing home, alone in hospice. Get used to the idea of dying alone, your odds are good for that to happen.

You guarantee this? There is no guarantee that your kid won't hate you and want nothing to do with you at some point in their life.

There is no guarantee that your kid will out live you. They could become a drug attic and die, they could ride their bike in front of a bus and die. They could be diagnosed with childhood cancer at 5, and die.

You can't guarantee shit, but i don't suspect you'll ever realize this. I for one hope that none of those things happen to you or your child, because i highly doubt your ability to put yourself back together after that kind of loss. But it happens every day.

My best friend took her 5 year old in for a stomach ache 3 weeks ago. After a few scans they found a tumor on his kidney. A few more scans found node on his lung, which makes him stage 4. They removed his kidney the next day and started radiation and chemo after giving him a whole 2 days to recover from surgery. He's now facing 40 more weeks of chemo. And my friend and her husband are facing the harsh reality that their 5 year old son may not live another 4 years. And no body can guarantee them that even if he does beat this childhood cancer that he won't be cancer laden again at some other age.

Do go spreading around word of guarantees when they don't exist.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I suppose i should apologize for sounding harsh. I've had to deal with a lot of people recently who think their kid is just going to be the perfect little human with abounding undying love for their parents and all people around them. No chance of them becoming one of the many scumbags of our current society. No chance of them experiencing some unfortunate medical diagnosis or being the victim of a heinous crime, or a freak accident. These people make little gods of their children and it typically doesn't end well for anyone because worshiping your kids does a disservice to all involved.

Sara, (prime example) you think your kid is going to hold the same level of love and compassion for her father as she does for you? No chance that you may inadvertently influence her to possibly think negatively of her father due to his actions? Even without your influence you think she'll love her father equally when she starts to believe he abandoned you guys? How much love and kisses and hand holding will he have on his deathbed by your daughter? Sure there is a chance she'll grow up super well adjusted and forgive any wrong doings she may manifest due to your attitude towards him. But statistically, the odds are heavily against that. Bottom line is that i doubt you'd grantee your ex that his youngest daughter will be there for him on his deathbed. Or is that ok since he wan't there for her when she was young? Which begs the question, if someone is a working all hours of the day and night to provide for his family and ISN'T there for their kids in the early parts of their lives, does that absolve the kid from being there for that parent on their deathbed?

Jesus dude. What you've said is beyond harsh and borders on fucked up. Sure, there are harsh realities out there but what kind of parent would wish anything less than the best for their children? Of course you want them to succeed and become loving people and every parent should hope that for their children. To list a whole bunch of horrendous outcomes based on scenarios right out of the movie Crash is the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Sure, she probably should not have used the word "guarantee", but when you're talking about your 1yr old kid who shows you nothing but love and admiration, why would you feel the need to sully it with thoughts of her becoming a drug addict or getting hit by a fucking bus? I know you don't have kids but how would you react if you got a new puppy and someone walked up to you and said "that dog will probably get cancer or get hit by a car." Your posts were completely unnecessary and frankly quite rude. I'm not some internet white knight, but to tell someone who has already been through hell that it will probably get worse seems very low.

[Douche]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Jesus dude. What you've said is beyond harsh and borders on fucked up. Sure, there are harsh realities out there but what kind of parent would wish anything less than the best for their children? Of course you want them to succeed and become loving people and every parent should hope that for their children. To list a whole bunch of horrendous outcomes based on scenarios right out of the movie Crash is the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Sure, she probably should not have used the word "guarantee", but when you're talking about your 1yr old kid who shows you nothing but love and admiration, why would you feel the need to sully it with thoughts of her becoming a drug addict or getting hit by a fucking bus? Your posts were completely unnecessary and frankly quite rude. I know you don't have kids but how would you react if you got a new puppy and someone walked up to you and said "that dog will probably get cancer or get hit by a car."

Pets never die. They live forever. What are you talking about?

(Mia, my cat, is 11. I hope she lives forever, can't stand the thought of her dying at even 18-20...)

[MiddleAgedAl]

Children dying before their parents are the exception, not the rule, especially in this day and age of ever-increasing advances in medical science.

Having said that, I'd agree that anyone who thinks having a child effectively creates a "GUARANTEE" that they will be taken care of themselves in their golden years is sadly ignorant.

The wife of a good buddy has spent her entire career working in seniors facilities. She can tell you from plenty of first hand evidence that having kids does not even guarantee regular visitors in the best of times, let alone someone to be there 24x7 if things unravel near the end.
LOTS of seniors (not just an unfortunate 5% or something) go weeks or months or more with no familial visitors, and it's not as if they didnt have kids. (It must be pointed out that the people currently 80+ in these facilities came from a generation where having kids was expected; choosing to remain childless far less common in the 60's.) Maybe the kids have moved away, maybe they dont have a close relationship with the parents, maybe the kids have died (she seems to think that's the least prevalent of all the causes).

Having kids cause you want them is great. Having kids cause you want to breed your own hospice worker to change your Depends when you are 85 is a really bad idea. If you want a "Guarantee", then go buy a toaster.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Having kids cause you want them is great. Having kids cause you want to breed your own hospice worker to change your Depends when you are 85 is a really bad idea. If you want a "Guarantee", then go buy a toaster.

Hmmm, I wouldn't go with a toaster. Someone on here just had theirs almost ignite their house. I'd say that's a terrible guarantee, unless you spend extra on the extended warranty. If anything, buy a set of golf clubs, guaranteed to last.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Sara504

Honestly, because he's an asshole.

He didnt go with me for my first appointment. He only went to one scan, the down syndrome scan to "make sure our baby was normal." He was disappointed in that scan because the technician told us I was carrying a girl and he didnt want a daughter. He wanted a son. After that scan was over was when I got the results that I carried the SMA gene and it would be wise to test him to see if he had it too so we would know what our options were and if our baby would be at risk. Regardless, he wouldnt go because he was a dick. Either way I would have loved her anyway. He wasnt even there when I gave birth to her. Why? Because Sales Manager meetings are more important to him to be in attendance for. I labored and gave birth without him there. He strolls in the hospital an hour after she was born and wants to hold her? No way. Get away from me.
You can see why I had extreme post pardon depression. I live in a two story home with the upstairs open to below layout. I had many thoughts of throwing myself over the railing and visions of hanging my self with an internet cable from the chandelier in the foyer. It was awful the first two months. I cried non stop. Now I look back and cant believe I ever thought those things but it's really true about how depressing it can be.

Why'd you decide to get pregnant with him? Were you married beforehand?

These are personal questions that I wouldn't bother asking in most any other circumstances but you don't seem to mind getting all personal.

EDIT: Just read the circumstances. Hard to have much pity for you. You knew what you were getting into when you decided to try to have a kid with this guy who's twice your age. The inability (or woeful ignorance) to see the warning signs and the actions that result from that have their consequences. Only unfortunate thing in this instance is that you decided to learn this lesson the hard way. Anyone viewing this situation with a clear head and from a third person perspective could've told you that there's really no scenario where this whole pregnancy thing would've ended favorably for either you or him.

OP, take the trip to get your M3 if you want. Just be prepared to sleep in your car for the foreseeable future upon your return. You can get an M3 whenever you want, a child birth isn't something you experience often.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Jesus dude. What you've said is beyond harsh and borders on fucked up. Sure, there are harsh realities out there but what kind of parent would wish anything less than the best for their children? Of course you want them to succeed and become loving people and every parent should hope that for their children. To list a whole bunch of horrendous outcomes based on scenarios right out of the movie Crash is the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Sure, she probably should not have used the word "guarantee", but when you're talking about your 1yr old kid who shows you nothing but love and admiration, why would you feel the need to sully it with thoughts of her becoming a drug addict or getting hit by a fucking bus? I know you don't have kids but how would you react if you got a new puppy and someone walked up to you and said "that dog will probably get cancer or get hit by a car." Your posts were completely unnecessary and frankly quite rude. I'm not some internet white knight, but to tell someone who has already been through hell that it will probably get worse seems very low.

Where did i tell anyone to wish less than the best for their children?

Never even heard of a movie called Crash, let a lone seen it. Those outcomes are based on real world experience, not movie fantasy. And my posts, specifically portions directed towards Sara are not a response to her single quoted post. It's a response to her view on this subject based on many posts she's made over the years. Sara's a fine human being and she'll likely raise anther fine human. And at no point did i tell her these things are going to happen to her. Nor did i walk up to her on the street or just send a random PM of that post. It was in response to her saying a bunch of stuff that is a fallacy for a LARGE portion of our society.

I've had a dog with cancer, thankfully developed in his twilight years. My current dog developed cataracts at 8 months old and is now nearly blind. I'm aware of the unexpected circumstances life brings with it. I'm guessing that no one feels the need to tell me about the possibility of my dog getting cancer because i'm not guaranteeing anything about his lifespan.

No where did i tell her it was going to get worse. And what hell has she gone though?

All i said was what Al said below but without the sugar coating. Sometimes, the sugar prevents the message from getting through. Children dying before their parents being the exception should be just as obvious to everyone as the fact that there is no guarantee that your child will be taking care of you while you're in hospice.

I know a lot of people who have great relationships with there parents, but even for some of them, because of their career/location, will likely not be able to be at their parents side while in hospice.

You want to see a harsh reality, go talk to ALF or Hospice workers and ask them about average visitation frequency. My in-laws are about as family oriented as you can get. Both of my wife's grandparents who were alive when we met, died in and ALF, 1000 miles from family, alone. In the 13 years i've known my wife, both grandparents were visited by their kids, (wife's parents) no more than 3 times each before they died. 3 times in 13 years by people who always have and still do preach family, family, family. It wasn't for lack of desire either, it was because of circumstance. And this story isn't the exception; to varying degrees, it's the norm.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Children dying before their parents are the exception, not the rule, especially in this day and age of ever-increasing advances in medical science.

Having said that, I'd agree that anyone who thinks having a child effectively creates a "GUARANTEE" that they will be taken care of themselves in their golden years is sadly ignorant.

The wife of a good buddy has spent her entire career working in seniors facilities. She can tell you from plenty of first hand evidence that having kids does not even guarantee regular visitors in the best of times, let alone someone to be there 24x7 if things unravel near the end.
LOTS of seniors (not just an unfortunate 5% or something) go weeks or months or more with no familial visitors, and it's not as if they didnt have kids. (It must be pointed out that the people currently 80+ in these facilities came from a generation where having kids was expected; choosing to remain childless far less common in the 60's.) Maybe the kids have moved away, maybe they dont have a close relationship with the parents, maybe the kids have died (she seems to think that's the least prevalent of all the causes).

Having kids cause you want them is great. Having kids cause you want to breed your own hospice worker to change your Depends when you are 85 is a really bad idea. If you want a "Guarantee", then go buy a toaster.

[KingOfJericho]

You just don't say those things to a new mother. I stand behind my post.

[nagisak31]

One of those "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" situations...

Fucking Internet tough guys...

[Douche]

Originally Posted by nagisak31

One of those "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" situations...

Fucking Internet tough guys...

Like you?

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You just don't say those things to a new mother. I stand behind my post.

I think it needed to be said regardless of the new mom aspect. Sometimes people need a reality check, but that is difficult in this country with all of the sugar coating and political correctness people insist on. You have to take off the rose-colored glasses now and then because life is not all candy canes and rainbows.

[954Stealth]

Soooooooo how 'bout the Heat getting 10th spot?

[nagisak31]

Originally Posted by Douche

Like you?

Suck a dick?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

I think it needed to be said regardless of the new mom aspect. Sometimes people need a reality check, but that is difficult in this country with all of the sugar coating and political correctness people insist on. You have to take off the rose-colored glasses now and then because life is not all candy canes and rainbows.

It could've been worded a bit better if the objective was to warn against such rosy naivety and not so cryptic.

Usually, at least in my experience, we aren't all standing around in a circle crying and holding hands, but that's because everyone involved has come to terms that someone is about to pass and that they've lived a long life. I haven't had to deal with a sudden, unexpected death in the family so I can't speak for that, but when it's expected it's a bit different. Sometimes we're a bit relieved since it's painful watching someone who's old that you knew slowly lose themselves to some sort of disease and merely becoming a shell of what they once were.