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      05-15-2019, 07:57 AM   #1
yco
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Exclamation Keeping The Engine and Oil Healthy

after seeing some talks on the forum about keeping the engine healthy i wanted to share my humble opinions about it and discuss it with you guys.. and it may create a debate but im not gonna say to change the oil every 3-5k kms..

first of all im aware of the tradition in U.S that changing oil 3k miles will be good for your engine started with a windshield sticker many years ago.. and it was totally right back in those times like '60-70's cause there were no fully synthetic oil till then and engineering levels were different.. and full synthetic oil may need to be changed frequently in some conditions also i ll talk about it.. not only the psychological need..

i believe it ll be nice to break the oil types first by conventional and semi synthetic oil.. conventional has no additive in it which is no good for car engines, i skip semi-synthetic oils also this "semi" term is so slippery that there is no clear statement what makes semi-synthetic semi semi-synthetic.. so it can be 1% or %50 they re all called semi-synthetic.. i never used these oils and never will..

as you all know oils been through tons of refinement process till its ready.. and the base of the full-synthetic oil is the most refined one before additives.. for high performance engines one of the most crucial additive is zinc to bare the excessive heat.. race oil has relatively higher zinc levels than normal full-synthetic oil though after some point zinc is catalytic killer so the first point to limit that is to save cats for sports cars..

about oil change intervals, i know some people that changed oil every 3k km which is less than 2k miles (though there are some Japanese cars requires 3k miles period also which is ok)..first they even drain the old oil.. then put some oil in start the car and drain that oil also.. an advanced level of psychological health approach for oil change..
for me its just a waste of money.. the biggest myth is..
  • "after oil gets black its bad.."
no its not bad.. turns black cause to combustion heat and lots of combustion gases passes piston rings inevitably.. and in the end oil collects carbon particules and becomes black.. this affect can be seen less in new engines or newly built engines.. but soon or later it changes anyway.. so there is no way to understand if the oil is done just by its color.. viscosity is the key.. an engine like 100k on clock can make the oil black in 300-400km.. cause high temperatures, oil detergency additives for cleaning out the worn out metals can collect those parts so fast and still can be perfectly lubricant..
  • "changing the oil too often is good.."
simple answer for me is no except some conditions below unless you re on high power setup that only stock part is the hood..

and there is a daily thing to extend your oil life and at the same save your engine without changing the oil too frequently.. there are some key factors that defines what should be your oil change interval here also..

1. despite having a turbocharger or not, turning off an engine after pushing it hard some parts that vitally needs oil will be without oil basically.. and the remaining oil, over those parts can burn easily and leaving the thicker behind which can harm the oil viscosity after some time.. and that part of the engine is being protected less step by step over time.. to avoid that keeping it calm in last 4-5mins of driving will be an easy solution.. this scenario is pretty frequent on autobahn resting places.. where you spend some time and let the car sit from 5 mins to an hour for eating etc..

2. first one leads to volatility of the oil checking it before buying can help.. volatility levels are under international law but some oil have higher rates.. its because of the heat that oil absorbs and it evaporates.. that will lead you add oil more frequently, thicker oil which is bad for your engine if not intended.. and especially in winter time it ll mean more wear..

3. most of the cars dont have an oil temp gauge and oil warms slower than the water since water circuit can be closed and opened for faster warming.. almost all full-synthetic oil operating temps starting from 70-75 celsius up to 120 or even 140-150 celsius.. racing oils which has a lot of zinc added can still be ok up to 170celsius.. so if the water is in optimal level it doesnt mean engine is ready.. especially in extreme cold climates engine oil can be in optimal level pretty late.. if there is no oil temp in your car.. after seeing the water is in optimal level, add 10mins in winter and 3-5 mins in summer can make your engine safe..

4. of course checking the oil level.. and yes iDrive thinks it can check the level better.. but there is another thing that you can check is the oil cap on top of the engine.. if you see deposits which can be an indication of different thing but if its a bit wet, oil is probably done if there is no problem with the engine.. cause oil humidity absorbing is very limited.. humidity on the cap can change during seasons but smell wont change.. i do smell the cap some time to time.. it should smell like oil basically there shouldnt be any burnt smell on it at least not dominant..

5. the way that car is driven.. short commutes kills the oil because for being safe most of the engines are running rich on mixture for keeping the temps lower reason why there is chip tuning industry for filling that performance gap.. and when the engine is cold its even richer which leads to more carbon.. so if you re driving car in short distances changing oil in shorter intervals can be good for your engine.. extreme cold climate means more temp swings for engine and oil.. towing means more load or dusty conditions needs more frequent oil changes also.. and stop and go traffic of course.. fixed highway driving is roughly causes damage 10 times less than stop and go traffic.. big cities is no good for this of course..

6. more for turbocharged engine but low rpm, high gear combo.. it causes higher temps, more carbon leftovers and increases the duration of high temp operating also.. causes low speed pre ignition in short is no good for engine or oil..

7. in optimal environment temps oil can circulate the engine in under 4-5 seconds.. but lower temps needs more time to circulate the oil.. driving after 30 seconds of waiting after the cold start can be life saver.. lower than -10 celsius (14f) i prefer to wait more than a minute actually..

these are the thing comes to mind to keep my car safe and i did them over exactly 290k km for my cars in this 12-13 of driving that i do want to take care of the cars i had.. never changed oil before a year or 8-10k km or 5000 miles and had no problem.. actually i can clearly say that despite having no problem i was always happy to see the healthy numbers on dyno or by trying out with similar powered cars.. and im not fan of cruise control..

whats your ideas or contrasting opinions about this.. cheers everyone..
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      05-15-2019, 08:35 AM   #2
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What do you think about the 530e (phev)? The ICE gets used less and often when more oomph is needed and the ICE may not be warmed up. Will that be harder on the oil?
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      05-15-2019, 09:54 AM   #3
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There are almost as many theories on how to best deal with oil as there are members on this forum.

When push comes to shove, getting a UOA performed on oil from your car, multiple times as you change oil over the life of the engine so as to develop trending information, is the only way to learn what for sure works, or doesn't work, for /your/ engine, oil choice, environment (driving style and location) and time/distance between changes.

Everything else is just an opinion.
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      05-15-2019, 11:06 AM   #4
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I don't know about "most" of the cars not having an oil temp gauge. My 2015 F30 does. (I wish it had a coolant temp gauge as well.)

If the oil is black, that means it's doing its job. Oil in diesels, for example, turns black very soon after it's changed, absorbing soot and other byproducts. Doesn't mean it's burned out and ready to change.

I've gone from the 3K mile oil change in the '70s through the '90s, to 4000 and now ~5000, which is about what I cover in 6 months of mixed driving. The proper oil for my BMW is only a little more expensive than the synthetic I ran in the 2011 Buick Regal's 4-cylinder NA engine, and the number of quarts per change is almost the same. So a change at 5K/6 months is not unreasonable -- for me. If I had a 45-minute all-highway commute every day, I'd have to re-evaluate the whole business.
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      05-15-2019, 11:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
whats your ideas or contrasting opinions about this.. cheers everyone..
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Many of your statements or ideas are outdated.
a) All BMWs use synthetic oil (and have for 20 years). So why even mention dino oil?
b) BMWs with turbos have electric water pumps to cool the turbo bearings after shutdown, so the oil doesn't get coked.
c) BMW oil specs (LL-01, 02, 03, 04, ...) all specify additives and volatility and weight. There is little or no leeway, so not much to discuss.

Etc. Not trying to throw shade, but you haven't read enough recent stuff.
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      05-15-2019, 04:36 PM   #6
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I stop reading after the OP's statement about "conventional (oil) has no additive in it", which is wrong in so many levels.
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      05-15-2019, 05:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
after seeing some talks on the forum about keeping the engine healthy i wanted to share my humble opinions about it and discuss it with you guys.. and it may create a debate but im not gonna say to change the oil every 3-5k kms..

first of all im aware of the tradition in U.S that changing oil 3k miles will be good for your engine started with a windshield sticker many years ago.. and it was totally right back in those times like '60-70's cause there were no fully synthetic oil till then and engineering levels were different.. and full synthetic oil may need to be changed frequently in some conditions also i ll talk about it.. not only the psychological need..

i believe it ll be nice to break the oil types first by conventional and semi synthetic oil.. conventional has no additive in it which is no good for car engines, i skip semi-synthetic oils also this "semi" term is so slippery that there is no clear statement what makes semi-synthetic semi semi-synthetic.. so it can be 1% or %50 they re all called semi-synthetic.. i never used these oils and never will..

as you all know oils been through tons of refinement process till its ready.. and the base of the full-synthetic oil is the most refined one before additives.. for high performance engines one of the most crucial additive is zinc to bare the excessive heat.. race oil has relatively higher zinc levels than normal full-synthetic oil though after some point zinc is catalytic killer so the first point to limit that is to save cats for sports cars..

about oil change intervals, i know some people that changed oil every 3k km which is less than 2k miles (though there are some Japanese cars requires 3k miles period also which is ok)..first they even drain the old oil.. then put some oil in start the car and drain that oil also.. an advanced level of psychological health approach for oil change..
for me its just a waste of money.. the biggest myth is..
  • "after oil gets black its bad.."
no its not bad.. turns black cause to combustion heat and lots of combustion gases passes piston rings inevitably.. and in the end oil collects carbon particules and becomes black.. this affect can be seen less in new engines or newly built engines.. but soon or later it changes anyway.. so there is no way to understand if the oil is done just by its color.. viscosity is the key.. an engine like 100k on clock can make the oil black in 300-400km.. cause high temperatures, oil detergency additives for cleaning out the worn out metals can collect those parts so fast and still can be perfectly lubricant..
  • "changing the oil too often is good.."
simple answer for me is no except some conditions below unless you re on high power setup that only stock part is the hood..

and there is a daily thing to extend your oil life and at the same save your engine without changing the oil too frequently.. there are some key factors that defines what should be your oil change interval here also..

1. despite having a turbocharger or not, turning off an engine after pushing it hard some parts that vitally needs oil will be without oil basically.. and the remaining oil, over those parts can burn easily and leaving the thicker behind which can harm the oil viscosity after some time.. and that part of the engine is being protected less step by step over time.. to avoid that keeping it calm in last 4-5mins of driving will be an easy solution.. this scenario is pretty frequent on autobahn resting places.. where you spend some time and let the car sit from 5 mins to an hour for eating etc..

2. first one leads to volatility of the oil checking it before buying can help.. volatility levels are under international law but some oil have higher rates.. its because of the heat that oil absorbs and it evaporates.. that will lead you add oil more frequently, thicker oil which is bad for your engine if not intended.. and especially in winter time it ll mean more wear..

3. most of the cars dont have an oil temp gauge and oil warms slower than the water since water circuit can be closed and opened for faster warming.. almost all full-synthetic oil operating temps starting from 70-75 celsius up to 120 or even 140-150 celsius.. racing oils which has a lot of zinc added can still be ok up to 170celsius.. so if the water is in optimal level it doesnt mean engine is ready.. especially in extreme cold climates engine oil can be in optimal level pretty late.. if there is no oil temp in your car.. after seeing the water is in optimal level, add 10mins in winter and 3-5 mins in summer can make your engine safe..

4. of course checking the oil level.. and yes iDrive thinks it can check the level better.. but there is another thing that you can check is the oil cap on top of the engine.. if you see deposits which can be an indication of different thing but if its a bit wet, oil is probably done if there is no problem with the engine.. cause oil humidity absorbing is very limited.. humidity on the cap can change during seasons but smell wont change.. i do smell the cap some time to time.. it should smell like oil basically there shouldnt be any burnt smell on it at least not dominant..

5. the way that car is driven.. short commutes kills the oil because for being safe most of the engines are running rich on mixture for keeping the temps lower reason why there is chip tuning industry for filling that performance gap.. and when the engine is cold its even richer which leads to more carbon.. so if you re driving car in short distances changing oil in shorter intervals can be good for your engine.. extreme cold climate means more temp swings for engine and oil.. towing means more load or dusty conditions needs more frequent oil changes also.. and stop and go traffic of course.. fixed highway driving is roughly causes damage 10 times less than stop and go traffic.. big cities is no good for this of course..

6. more for turbocharged engine but low rpm, high gear combo.. it causes higher temps, more carbon leftovers and increases the duration of high temp operating also.. causes low speed pre ignition in short is no good for engine or oil..

7. in optimal environment temps oil can circulate the engine in under 4-5 seconds.. but lower temps needs more time to circulate the oil.. driving after 30 seconds of waiting after the cold start can be life saver.. lower than -10 celsius (14f) i prefer to wait more than a minute actually..

these are the thing comes to mind to keep my car safe and i did them over exactly 290k km for my cars in this 12-13 of driving that i do want to take care of the cars i had.. never changed oil before a year or 8-10k km or 5000 miles and had no problem.. actually i can clearly say that despite having no problem i was always happy to see the healthy numbers on dyno or by trying out with similar powered cars.. and im not fan of cruise control..

whats your ideas or contrasting opinions about this.. cheers everyone..
Can you explain #4 a little more clear

And for #6 you mean its higher temps cause the oil doesnt get to move around as much in lower rpm?
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      05-15-2019, 05:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Many of your statements or ideas are outdated.
a) All BMWs use synthetic oil (and have for 20 years). So why even mention dino oil?
b) BMWs with turbos have electric water pumps to cool the turbo bearings after shutdown, so the oil doesn't get coked.
c) BMW oil specs (LL-01, 02, 03, 04, ...) all specify additives and volatility and weight. There is little or no leeway, so not much to discuss.

Etc. Not trying to throw shade, but you haven't read enough recent stuff.
Can you verify that m2 2018 has electirc water pump?
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      05-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #9
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Another oil thread. Jeezzus. Please stop.
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      05-15-2019, 05:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
Can you verify that m2 2018 has electirc water pump?
Yes: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5112
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      05-15-2019, 06:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Many of your statements or ideas are outdated.
a) All BMWs use synthetic oil (and have for 20 years). So why even mention dino oil?
b) BMWs with turbos have electric water pumps to cool the turbo bearings after shutdown, so the oil doesn't get coked.
c) BMW oil specs (LL-01, 02, 03, 04, ...) all specify additives and volatility and weight. There is little or no leeway, so not much to discuss.

Etc. Not trying to throw shade, but you haven't read enough recent stuff.
1. BMW is using full synthetic oil from factory but not every owner does.. to clear out why..
2. why you think that oil cooking is only on turbos and as i ve said its still the same for non turbo engines also.. turbo can heat up quite a lot but it doesnt mean that thats the only part.. and i dont remember saying that there is no electric water pump on BMW's.. and over here people are driving different brands also here as far as i ve seen..
3. cause after car gets older like 5-6 years old people tend to use different oil more likely cheaper ones.. or totally different specs according to their needs..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
Can you explain #4 a little more clear

And for #6 you mean its higher temps cause the oil doesnt get to move around as much in lower rpm?
sure.. i meant if there having moisture around on cap generally is not good sign but since it can mean different problems, for only oil checking smelling the oil cap can give you a clear idea of oil's state.. despite its color.. oil smell is good burnt smell is bad in short..

and the 6th.. its like flooring it 5-6-7th gear like on 1200rpm on highway (petrol engine).. it causes turbo to see its peak and ECU tends overboost to compensate to achieve additional power needed at that time.. this longer period of building engine speed causes higher temps in chamber without really accelerating the car.. recent engine's ECU is pretty clever to avoid knocking but especially in smaller turbocharged engines still can have this problem and they re having.. bigger displacement and twin turbocharged cars can affect from this less but still causes engine heat one way or another.. i can feel the difference between my car and a GTI for example..

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
I stop reading after the OP's statement about "conventional (oil) has no additive in it", which is wrong in so many levels.
conventional oil has additives in it like anti-sludge additives or has more viscosity improver additives.. of course it has some additives to make it a bit different than raw petrol oil.. maybe its a wrong statement but i wanted to make summary without detailing it too much..
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      05-16-2019, 11:47 AM   #12
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As far as healthy oil is concerned, I am hearing that avocado oil is better than extra virgin olive oil. Thoughts?
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      05-16-2019, 01:39 PM   #13
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I prefer a mix of coconut & sunflower tbh. For high heat such as frying chicken.
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