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      03-16-2014, 01:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Did you ask the stand attendants to have a closer look?
They would have let you and shown you the features of the new car.
The Gran Tourer with extended wheelbase and seating for 7 will be unveiled in the next couple of months.
Hi, thanks. I did ask but was told it was not possible. I expected it would be towards the end of the show as things do tend to a little different at the start and finish. Anyway, do you have any suggestions on where to see one up close, before they are at dealerships that is? And thanks for the info about the 7 seater. I remember discussing 7 seating capacity with my colleague but don't remember if it was a critical feature. But he'll be interested to learn about both issues.

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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
There will be another innovation day later this year which will show (essentially the new 7er) and the areas of weight reduction. BMW have also previously confirmed through Research and Development chief Herbert Diess that a 730d will weigh the same as the current 520d F10 model and that the new 7er will be the most technically advanced BMW to date.
That is good news for the larger cars. Hopefully the shared architecture will allow the 3-series to also end up lighter than the current car? I like the size of the M235i (and would have loved a "Gran Coupe" version!) but I also find it disappointingly heavy, just like the 1-series before it. Sharing a platform with the 3-series (instead of a separate more optimized design), and using a few more steel (suspension) components to lower cost, resulted in the smaller cars weighing almost as much as the 3-series. I'm trying not to beat a dead horse, but that is another data point for my concern about the 3 being based on the architecture of the 7. Though I will gladly eat my words of concern about the 3-to-7 shared architecture if the CFRP-intensive next-generation 3 is 100 kg lighter than the F30. Thanks
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      03-16-2014, 01:22 PM   #90
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The i8.
Hardly.
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      03-16-2014, 01:32 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
How this is important regards an industry rumour at the Geneva Autoshow regarding the next Mercedes-Benz E-Klasse which they were considering to sacrifice its profitability in order for a lightweight CFRP structure like the BMW i3.
For them to do that they need to have a car like the i3 in production now and they do not , they are not even at that level of producing volume CFRP and they need the E-Klasse's profitability.
Are you implying that Mercedes is willing to sacrifice profits in order to make a better car, whereas BMW is willing to sacrifice making a better car in order to make more profit?
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      03-16-2014, 01:46 PM   #92
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Are you implying that Mercedes is willing to sacrifice profits in order to make a better car, whereas BMW is willing to sacrifice making a better car in order to make more profit?
Quite the opposite for BMW the 5er will still be a profitable car , even more profitable than the current F10 but it will weigh less than the next E-Klasse model and will utilise BMW developed CFRP in the heaviest points of the car.

BMW have been able to align profitability along with making the 5er a better , lighter and superior car. And what better time to announce this on the 100th year anniversary of BMW in 2016.

This render is interesting because it is the first one that actually begins to illustrate the more chiseled front facia of the new 5er. And whilst it is not exactly 100% accurate. It shows the basic elements of the new cars front end.
The new 5er will also be offered with BMW Laser-Light technology as an option.
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      03-16-2014, 01:54 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by mdss6 View Post
Hi, thanks. I did ask but was told it was not possible. I expected it would be towards the end of the show as things do tend to a little different at the start and finish. Anyway, do you have any suggestions on where to see one up close, before they are at dealerships that is? And thanks for the info about the 7 seater. I remember discussing 7 seating capacity with my colleague but don't remember if it was a critical feature. But he'll be interested to learn about both issues.
There will be the opportunity to see both models at the AMI in Leipzig.
BMW will have two premieres specific to the German and the rest of the European market as well as European and German premieres for models shown at Geneva , NYIAS and Beijing.
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      03-16-2014, 02:59 PM   #94
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Say hello to your VW BMW. I don't know why BMW is determined to build terrible cars.
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      03-16-2014, 03:02 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Say hello to your VW BMW. I don't know why BMW is determined to build terrible cars.
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      03-16-2014, 03:12 PM   #96
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I am not liking this.
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      03-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW have been able to align profitability along with making the 5er a better , lighter and superior car. And what better time to announce this on the 100th year anniversary of BMW in 2016.

This render is interesting because it is the first one that actually begins to illustrate the more chiseled front facia of the new 5er. And whilst it is not exactly 100% accurate. It shows the basic elements of the new cars front end.
The new 5er will also be offered with BMW Laser-Light technology as an option.
I like the render on the next 5er. This car NEED to shed significant weight for the next generation.
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      03-16-2014, 04:31 PM   #98
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This is hilarious...
There is no reason to ever buy a BMW again. They have become the General Motors of the Auto world.

Delivering everything... but nothing!
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      03-16-2014, 04:33 PM   #99
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This is hilarious...
There is no reason to ever buy a BMW again. They have become the General Motors of the Auto world.

Delivering everything... but nothing!
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      03-16-2014, 04:35 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Diver
Perhaps this is the rumored end of the RWD 1 and 2 series cars. It also does not leave room for a small RWD 2 seat sports car.
Agreed.

Be a completely stupid move by BMW to make the 2 FWD having had such rave reviews for being near the best driving BMW currently made
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      03-16-2014, 04:55 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You seem confused^.
Why would anyone bother to buy an unfocused BMW..?
(Based off a single platform?)


Sounds more self-serving & profiteering, than a leadership decision to make better & specific cars. <-- Which is the exact reason people bought BMWs, was because of their precise focus.

BMW has lost it's focus, & now based on 80's General Motors mantra of: "Sell one of everything", someone is bound to like one of our models. The Active Tourer is the first of these embarrassing models.. America is already laughing.
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      03-16-2014, 05:43 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Agreed.

Be a completely stupid move by BMW to make the 2 FWD having had such rave reviews for being near the best driving BMW currently made
Because 70% of 1 series drivers find not know it was a RWD.
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      03-16-2014, 06:14 PM   #103
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Time to find a new brand.

1st it was the stupid i brand idea which is a waste of $$$$.

Then its FWD vehicles.

Now its 1 playform fits all.
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      03-16-2014, 06:28 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

Compact and Sub-Compact cars are important because they are and in the case of the new FWD architecture extremely profitable.
There you have it folks, straight from the CEOs mouth. It's all about the benjamins.
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      03-16-2014, 06:39 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by cgm1978 View Post
CAFE standards for model year 2017-2025 cars sold here in America has forced all auto makers to prepare. BMW is doing this by introducing the B-series engines and hybrids.

Weight saving features like CRFP will allow the gas mileage to increase across the lineup. They also have to meet EU6 emission targets. Legislation is the cause of this.
This does not require homogenizing your entire lineup of cars. BMWs decision to platform share to this extreme is clearly an effort to reduce production costs and increase profit. Record profits aren't enough; they need more.

Such a shame to hear this from a company that built its reputation on building focused, well engineered, enthusiast cars that could also double as practical daily drivers. I see BMW vans and full size trucks in the not so distant future. It looks like they want to be in every segment imaginable.
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      03-16-2014, 06:53 PM   #106
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I blame VW. Seriously.
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      03-16-2014, 07:09 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
You seem confused^.
Why would anyone bother to buy an unfocused BMW..?
(Based off a single platform?)


Sounds more self-serving & profiteering, than a leadership decision to make better & specific cars. <-- Which is the exact reason people bought BMWs, was because of their precise focus.

BMW has lost it's focus, & now based on 80's General Motors mantra of: "Sell one of everything", someone is bound to like one of our models. The Active Tourer is the first of these embarrassing models.. America is already laughing.
A touch Paranoid?
This is what BMW engineers have done to make the Active Tourer competitive as a BMW. Also check the reviews of the MINI to see how that car is getting excellent results and praise.

The BMW among front-wheel-drive cars.

Like all BMW models, the new BMW 2 Series Active Tourer makes its mark with great driving dynamics and the sort of driving experience the brand is renowned for. The newly developed chassis, comprising a single-joint spring strut axle at the front and a multi-link rear axle, combines agility and directional precision with excellent handling stability and suspension comfort. The front drive axle in the new BMW 2 Series Active Tourer has undergone extensive fine-tuning, ensuring that it endows the car with optimum driving dynamics and wonderfully precise steering feedback. The electromechanical steering and the system’s functional arrangement combine to produce a driving sensation that is devoid of interfering torque steer.
The intelligent use of high-tensile and ultra-high-tensile multi-phase steels makes a decisive contribution to safety standards in the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer, while also helping to keep the vehicle’s weight down. Apart from being a crucial factor in the model’s exceptional driving dynamics, this lightweight engineering is just one among many BMW EfficientDynamics technology elements. These also include the Auto Start Stop function, Brake Energy Regeneration, Optimum Gearshift Indicator, on-demand operation of ancillary units and the integral Air Curtain, which uses two vertical air inlets in the front bumper to direct the airstream along the front wheels.

Compact and Sub-Compact cars make a lot of money , money which is then used for additional R&D and further innovations in manufacturing and lightweight engineering.

Compact and Sub-Compact are the highest growth segments in the industry. The segment continues to grow and with each manufacturer developing their own competitor you have to be competitive especially in packaging something the Active Tourer excels at and even more so with the arrival of the Gran Tourer which will offer seven seats , so far the X5 is the only BMW to do so and not everyone in Europe will be able to afford an X5.

With sub-compact and compact cars also needed because of a global shift to customer demand and further points of legislation over emissions you either adapt or die.

Regarding the 2er's future? , No further decision on where that car will sit in the future has been made. As of now it is media speculation. Right now is not the time to make an informed decision as BMW are currently in a production landslide for the new car. The most demanded model being the 220d with M Sport Packet.
Interestingly since both architectures are modular , UKL can be adapted to RWD but there is a compromise in loss of some packaging in the final product.
Or it can join the BMW-Toyota joint architecture.

All options are open but the car is off to a great start and will be further emphasised by the Cabrio later this Summer. When all 2er models are combined for overall sales you are talking about a very high profitability level for a combined volume and niche car.
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      03-16-2014, 07:55 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Quite the opposite for BMW the 5er will still be a profitable car , even more profitable than the current F10 but it will weigh less than the next E-Klasse model and will utilise BMW developed CFRP in the heaviest points of the car.

BMW have been able to align profitability along with making the 5er a better , lighter and superior car. And what better time to announce this on the 100th year anniversary of BMW in 2016.

This render is interesting because it is the first one that actually begins to illustrate the more chiseled front facia of the new 5er. And whilst it is not exactly 100% accurate. It shows the basic elements of the new cars front end.
The new 5er will also be offered with BMW Laser-Light technology as an option.
Say what you will about the f10 but that car was at least nicely designed. This one's simply fugly. I don't know who came with this ridiculuos idea about connecting headlights and the front grille but i so feel that i should bmw ceo right just to not let it go the gm scenario. Other herecies (fwd) are simply not worth talking about.
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      03-16-2014, 08:05 PM   #109
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Stopped reading Scott's post at "active tourer"

Capitalism is a double-edged sword, and this is one of those times where the pursuit of profits hurts real f'ing bad if you aren't a shareholder. I recall previous harping about how these are the kinds of moves BMW needs to make to stay independent. I question the value that independence brings to the consumer. If these latest moves are what we can expect going forward, maybe the alternative would be better for us as buyers. VW AG is still putting out NA V8, ,V10, and V12 models... Just sayin.
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      03-16-2014, 09:06 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Stopped reading Scott's post at "active tourer"

Capitalism is a double-edged sword, and this is one of those times where the pursuit of profits hurts real f'ing bad if you aren't a shareholder. I recall previous harping about how these are the kinds of moves BMW needs to make to stay independent. I question the value that independence brings to the consumer. If these latest moves are what we can expect going forward, maybe the alternative would be better for us as buyers. VW AG is still putting out NA V8, ,V10, and V12 models... Just sayin.
Perhaps you should have read on.
Watch as VAG also resort to Turbos in order to match forthcoming legislations.

The V12 engine will still continue at BMW because it will still be required for the 7er - A G12 760Li will be available as will V12 replacements for the Rolls-Royce Ghost and additional models.

And then this is going to happen.
Helped along by emission busting FWD cars , BMWi and lower emissions throughout the portfolio. BMW will be in position to launch a model like this.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...er-2017-scoop/

A mix of aluminium and Carbon Fibre.
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