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      08-06-2019, 07:52 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Clearly ideology plays a role in the validation that some shooters seek. Strains of populism such as Trump's or Sander's contain lies that are six of one half dozen of the other. [B]If a shooter believes that the system is rigged against him does it really matter if he blames brown people or big corporations?[/B] Of course it might well influence his choice of target.
The underlined part: ok, so maybe there is populism or a populist view. Many people have that, but they don't pick up a gun and shoot strangers to make their point. The shooting is based on a mental illness not populism.

Your permis that the system is rigged agains them sounds like paranoia, and if someone acts on that I'd say they are likely mentally ill.

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      08-06-2019, 08:14 AM   #156
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Bernie is mentally ill?

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
The underlined part: ok, so maybe there is populism or a populist view. Many people have that, but they don't pick up a gun and shoot strangers to make their point. The shooting is based on a mental illness not populism.

You perms that the system is rigged agains them sounds like paranoia, and if someone acts on that I'd say they are likely mentally ill.
Well, I'm sure that he could be deprived of his guns if a red flag law were passed in a red state.
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      08-06-2019, 08:39 AM   #157
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also the fact that this is political and we continue to argue/bully people on their political beliefs are half the reason these shootings happen. watching the HOR is like watching two high school drama clubs go at it lol
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      08-06-2019, 09:31 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Go one step further. Don't be lazy! How does that background translate into him murdering his sister and shooting up a dive bar? What was the motive? Can you share the link of the manifesto like the El Paso shooter?
Sure, he's an Hispanic White Supremacist then!

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      08-06-2019, 09:35 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Per the DOJ's research that I cited above, mass shootings are socially contagious. I don't see how an exploration of that social contagion could avoid an implicit case for gun control.
They can research what ever they want about gun violence and how to mitigate it, but they cant come out and say "we need to do X to fix gun violence"

Also of note, this amendment has been on the books since 96. You have been blaming republicans left and right from keeping the CDC from researching this, and yet, despite holding both the House, the Senate and the Presidency multiple times, Dems have also failed to pass anything.

So again, keep using your incorrect statements to falsely blame Republicans while the rest of us live in the real world.
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      08-06-2019, 09:50 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
I suppose you could argue that mass murder is a kind of mental illness unto itself.
Gee do ya think
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      08-06-2019, 09:51 AM   #161
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watch the B.S. watch guy..

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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
They can research what ever they want about gun violence and how to mitigate it, but they cant come out and say "we need to do X to fix gun violence"

Also of note, this amendment has been on the books since 96. You have been blaming republicans left and right from keeping the CDC from researching this, and yet, despite holding both the House, the Senate and the Presidency multiple times, Dems have also failed to pass anything.

So again, keep using your incorrect statements to falsely blame Republicans while the rest of us live in the real world.
The CDC hasn't been funded by Congress to do research into gun violence in the intervening twenty odd years.
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      08-06-2019, 10:11 AM   #162
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Curious, anyone have statistics of mass shootings in the 80's/90's?

We used to get in fights as kids. You know with fists. The score would've settled and usually those that had a fight became friends or at a minimum, respected each other.

Would we be better off today letting kids fight again? Maybe if they leaned these lessons early, there would be less mass events? At least coping skills would be better so maybe they don't snap so easily.

Just a thought.
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      08-06-2019, 10:13 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
The CDC hasn't been funded by Congress to do research into gun violence in the intervening twenty odd years.
Why should they?

CDC = Center for Disease Control

I didn't know a metal and wooden object was an actual disease. Who woulda thunk it?




Perhaps we should get the USPS some funds to start developing vaccines. I mean, if the CDC is going to spend taxpayer dollars and take resources away from curing and preventing infectious diseases, then why not have the post office start working on a cure for cancer.

I am dumber after reading this. Thanks.
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      08-06-2019, 10:52 AM   #164
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I came across this on Facebook, with respect to the shootings, I thought it had a good point about how sacred do we really view life...or do we just pay that concept lip service and that's all?


"Causes of Violence

The horrendous events in El Paso, Dayton, and Gilroy must give us pause. And we must ask “why”? What are the root causes of such atrocities?

Guns aren’t the cause. They were the instrumentalities not the cause. Fertilizer was the weapon in Oklahoma City. Airplanes were the instrumentalities on 9/11. None of these things were the cause.

It would be way too easy to say that there was a singular cause for all of these horrific events or for anyone of them. But complexity does not relieve us of the duty to determine root causes.

One factor is apparent. These killers did not hold life to be sacred. We need to ask ourselves: Does society hold life sacred? Do we individually hold life to be sacred?

The fact that 4000 babies die in Planned Parenthood offices and other clinics every day is the most glaring fact in such an analysis. The advent of euthanasia demeans the sacred character of life. And our entertainment involves an awful lot of killing.

Those who get behind a steering wheel impaired by alcohol or drugs do not hold life sacred. And there are countless other reckless actions that send a message: I don’t think that your life and safety require me to be careful.

But there is another level of analysis. For life to be sacred, we have to view human life as having unique merit. The word “sacred” literally requires the imprint of God. Life is an inalienable God-given right, the Declaration of Independence says. Inalienable is a legal term meaning that no one can take it from me nor can I voluntarily surrender it.

The Judeo Christian heritage views life in this manner. A few other religions and philosophies hold roughly similar views but atheism struggles to find a philosophical path that leads to the sacredness of life. This is principally because of the connection of evolution to atheism. If humans are a random cosmic accident fundamentally no different than other life forms, human life is cheapened unless one resorts to the extremes of Veganism.

Pride. Selfishness. Arrogance. Many other factors embellish the propensity to violence that arises when life is cheap.

There are many other factors that we can and should consider. We need a thoughtful national conversation about causes.

But I fear that all that is likely to happen is that politicians will yell at each other about guns. Such opportunistic divisiveness is far closer to a cause than it is a cure.

Life is in fact sacred because we are created in the image of God. Those of us who believe this need to join hands to figure this out. We will never solve it entirely. But we can and must make this a whole lot better."

Michael Farris
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      08-06-2019, 11:10 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Curious, anyone have statistics of mass shootings in the 80's/90's?

We used to get in fights as kids. You know with fists. The score would've settled and usually those that had a fight became friends or at a minimum, respected each other.

Would we be better off today letting kids fight again? Maybe if they leaned these lessons early, there would be less mass events? At least coping skills would be better so maybe they don't snap so easily.

Just a thought.
We learned conflict resolution by time we were 5 years old. We got up in morning and went out to play with others. We realized early on who we liked, who we disliked. We learned who was like us, and who was different. We learned that not everyone had the same opinion. We learned how to get along. Sometimes we had fist fights. I know I did, and I'm a girl. And yes, we mostly became friends and if not, we at least learned how to coexist. This is no longer the case.
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      08-06-2019, 11:38 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
So, this talks about Betts further. What are the leftists going to do now? Can't blame Trump for this one. Is Warren to blame now? Amazing how people blame Trump, yet none of the mass shootings during Obama's time were his fault.
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      08-06-2019, 12:11 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Why should they?

CDC = Center for Disease Control

I didn't know a metal and wooden object was an actual disease. Who woulda thunk it?
Plus, at least when they started looking into it, CDC was not being all that scientific or impartial. In a 1989 article in JAMA, the section head of division of injury control at CDC said (although later claiming to have been misquoted, to be fair), "We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities." In a 1994 Washington Post article, the director of the National Center for Injury Prevention said, "We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol -- cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly -- and banned." So at the time, at least, CDC seemed to be hardly an objective observer on this subject, and consequently the House’s Labor, Health, Human Services, and Education Appropriations Subcommittee didn't want CDC "engaging in any activities to advocate or promote gun control" since the subcommittee did "not believe that it is the role of the CDC to advocate or promote policies to advance gun control initiatives, or to discourage responsible private gun ownership."
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      08-06-2019, 12:29 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
What happens when you raise a generation of kids in a culture that promotes:

1. Nihilism and moral relativism
2. Excessive internet use, limited social interaction
3. Pop culture rampant with sexuality and degeneracy from a young age
4. Constant fear mongering about the climate and lack of a future
5. Instant gratification via social media dopamine addiction
6. A fruitless college system resulting in massive debt
7. Destruction of the traditional family in favor for single parent households
8. Hatred for ones own country, constant lecturing about unsavory past
9. Serenity can be achieved through an SSRI
10. Wealth above all else, consume consume always consume.

And then when these kids grow up and want to burn the entire thing to the ground we ask ourselves “what is wrong with them? How could they do this?”. These shootings are a symptom of a diseased culture. There is no amount of legislation that can fix this, banning objects is completely illogical.
So what of these factors dont we then get in europe, where these mass shootings are way less of a problem.
I mean what you list here also pretty much counts for every western european country.....

Other than that it takes way more efford to own a gun here? And that efford is for a lot of people too much of a hassle to get/own a gun to begin with, therefore they dont have the possibility to use it in a killing spree.
The truely dedicated gun enthousiast, that really takes care, that usually has a rich role in the gun society in general (clubs, meetings etc etc) here does take that efford, and those people tend to be the more responsible gun owner, taking pride in the fact that they did go for that efford and did get that responsibility from the authorities to own that gun.
And even then it can go wrong, but absolutely not with the frequency that it happens in the US, and certainly not if you take into account that the EU has way more inhabitants (over 50% more I believe), and are often due to either mistakes made in the whole controlled license process or the result of a very dedicated perpetrator, planning his specific act for months or even years and is willing to travel thousands of miles to forefill their mission (like the breivik shooting)

I think that is the key (and I think generally the majority of the 500 million europeans share that opinion otherwise the laws would have been changed in the EU)
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      08-06-2019, 12:36 PM   #169
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are any of yall statistics validated or just random numbers yall pick up? are these studies analyzed for bias. or we just use the conclusions as talking points?
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      08-06-2019, 12:46 PM   #170
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And, let's talk about respect or lack of. If we got in trouble at school, we feared for our lives going home. We had respect for others whether they were teachers, elders, police or others in general. Now if a teacher reprimands a kid, the parents are pissed at the teacher. We have participation trophy because God forbid someone's feeling get hurt because they aren't a winner. Kids are cottled and when they have to go into the real world and they don't know how to cope.
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      08-06-2019, 12:50 PM   #171
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wow!

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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I am dumber after reading this. Thanks.
Who would have thought that possible.
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      08-06-2019, 12:50 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
So, this talks about Betts further. What are the leftists going to do now? Can't blame Trump for this one. Is Warren to blame now? Amazing how people blame Trump, yet none of the mass shootings during Obama's time were his fault.
Well, the guy in El Paso openly praised Trump and parroted his talking points about illegal immigrants, right? Then he drove 10 hrs away to a border town so he could shoot a bunch of ethnic Mexicans/people he viewed as "the problem". That's a pretty clear link.

What did the whacko in OH do that ties to liberals or a specific politician? He figured that all those people standing in line for the nightclub, including his sister, were conservatives?

The fact that asshole was a liberal doesn't mean that motivated his killing spree. We can't honestly say the same for the asshole in TX.
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      08-06-2019, 12:54 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
The CDC hasn't been funded by Congress to do research into gun violence in the intervening twenty odd years.
and so for 20years, since you are blaming republicans for this, were republicans always in control of all the branches of the government? or does that not fit your narrative?

sure, let the cdc look into gun violence, as well as all violence, in the USA. But to say this is purely the reps fault that they havent is ignorant at best. stop following the CNN talking points like a sheep and start thinking for yourself here.
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      08-06-2019, 12:58 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherM4n View Post
Plus, at least when they started looking into it, CDC was not being all that scientific or impartial. In a 1989 article in JAMA, the section head of division of injury control at CDC said (although later claiming to have been misquoted, to be fair), "We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities." In a 1994 Washington Post article, the director of the National Center for Injury Prevention said, "We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol -- cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly -- and banned." So at the time, at least, CDC seemed to be hardly an objective observer on this subject, and consequently the House’s Labor, Health, Human Services, and Education Appropriations Subcommittee didn't want CDC "engaging in any activities to advocate or promote gun control" since the subcommittee did "not believe that it is the role of the CDC to advocate or promote policies to advance gun control initiatives, or to discourage responsible private gun ownership."
Hence the Dickey Amendment. Since then, Dems have wanted to remove the amendment forbidding the CDC to advocate for gun control, but have been unwilling to fund the CDC for gun research. Every time it is brought up, the Dems want that amendment removed or they wont fund them.

but yeah, according to our canadian friend, its the reps fault.
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      08-06-2019, 12:59 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
The CDC hasn't been funded by Congress to do research into gun violence in the intervening twenty odd years.
and so for 20years, since you are blaming republicans for this, were republicans always in control of all the branches of the government? or does that not fit your narrative?

sure, let the cdc look into gun violence, as well as all violence, in the USA. But to say this is purely the reps fault that they havent is ignorant at best. stop following the CNN talking points like a sheep and start thinking for yourself here.
CNN....sheep.......talking points.
Sure. Though I see far more NRA sheep on here than CNN sheep,


Fact check: Would stronger background checks have stopped the two mass shootings? https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/polit...eck/index.html
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      08-06-2019, 01:05 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
CNN....sheep.......talking points.
Sure. Though I see far more NRA sheep on here than CNN sheep,


Fact check: Would stronger background checks have stopped the two mass shootings? https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/polit...eck/index.html
The answer is no, they wouldnt have. Do you know why? Because earlier in both these guys lives, when they showed all the signs of a mentally deranged violent person and gave indications they would become violent, they were ignored. If the Ohio guy had been charged or institutionalized for putting together a kill list in high school, threatening his classmates, and threatening young females, he would not have been able to buy a gun legally. Instead, the school let him off the hook because he apologized...

And yes, i reference CNN, Sheep, and talking points for him because he is parroting what is being reported without doing any kind of research into the issue for himself.
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