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      04-25-2016, 10:55 AM   #1
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Tom Brady Suspension Reinstated

Appeals Court decision - just announced.
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      04-25-2016, 11:00 AM   #2
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      04-25-2016, 11:22 AM   #3
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Now Brady can get pissed off at the NFLPA and other players in the league for agreeing to a CBA that didn't have a specific carve out for him. The initial judge's ruling never made sense, nor did Brady's phone explanation. He knew it too because he changed his contract to lower his 2016 salary, in all likelihood in anticipation of losing the appeal.
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      04-25-2016, 11:44 AM   #4
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How is this still a thing. Let the hate flow through the tom brady haters
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      04-25-2016, 11:44 AM   #5
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I'm not sure how to feel about this. Trying to take a side in the Goodell vs Brady is like trying to decide in Trump vs Hillary Clinton
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      04-25-2016, 12:14 PM   #6
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As a labour relaitons professional on the management side who has handled hundreds of employment investigations, argued many cases at arbitration, and negotiated several collective agreement ... this whole thing is ridiculous.
  1. I read the Wells Report. Even if you accept the science cited (which has been irrefutably disproved), his conclusions were entirely flawed. He concluded that the "preponderance of evidence" tipped in favour of Tom Brady being involved. I read the Wells Report and came to another equal conclusion: if the balls were tampered with (and there is no evidence that they were), the two equipment guys took it upon themselves to do so to keep the prima donna QB from bitching at them. If you have another equal probability, by definition ... you do not have the "preponderance of evidence" or balance of probabilities. That should have been a full stop to this whole thing.
  2. The science of the Wells Report was flawed in of itself. When the referee could not confirm which gauge was used and whether the same one was used at halftime as was used pregame ... you have no evidence upon which to draw any conculsions.
  3. Tom Brady's refusal to turn over his cell phone was appropriate. Given the kangaroo court nature of NFL justice, I'd be very cautious about letting them snoop. He agreed to turn over all relevant communication and there is no basis to conclude that he withheld anything. Turning over the phone is a red herring.

The NFL was wrong to impose any discipline on Brady or the Patriots. There was simply no evidence to support the conclusions of the Wells Report. Had the NFL Collective Agreement read like any other one I've ever seen (or negotiated) the grievance would have been adjudicated by a third party arbitrator who would have thrown out the discipline. End of story.

The problem with this whole case is the sheer negligence of the NFLPA in allowing the NFL Commissioner to be the final arbiter at his (or her) choosing. The lack of an independent grievance arbitration process allowed the NFL to conduct themselves in a manner entirely consistent with the Kangaroo Court they are.

The appellate decision is correct in that there was an overreach in overturning Goodell's decision as patently unreasonable. Portions of it were (such as the reliance on new evidence not before him in making his decision), but based on his acceptance of the Wells Report his decision was only unreasonable, not patently so.

What is really wrong about this is that the actual evidence is irrefutable: the balls were never tampered with. The pressures observed (by either gauge) have been proven to be within Ideal Gas Law parameters. Like him or not, a Hall of Fame QB's reputations has been unfairly tarnished and the Patriots as a franchise have been needlessly punished.
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      04-25-2016, 12:35 PM   #7
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Well said Johnny.

It's a damn shame that headline readers are going to believe that TB12 had anything to do with this, whatever this is.
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      04-25-2016, 12:38 PM   #8
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Ha Ha!!!!! I love it!

J - E - T - S...............JETS - JETS - JETS
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      04-25-2016, 12:44 PM   #9
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LOVE IT. Best news I've heard all week.
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      04-25-2016, 01:26 PM   #10
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Wish there was an easy way to insert a trillion "HAHA"s because I would do it.
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      04-25-2016, 01:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
The problem with this whole case is the sheer negligence of the NFLPA in allowing the NFL Commissioner to be the final arbiter at his (or her) choosing.
But they did, and that is the central issue Brady / Pats fans refuse to accept. He had absolute discretion in handing out the penalty. Personally, I think Brady was involved with tampering and trying to cover it up, but it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. The commissioner acted within his rights, as agreed by the NFLPA. Should have never been a court case. They can address it in the next CBA and Brady can sit out 4 games like he should have last season.
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      04-25-2016, 01:39 PM   #12
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This isn't really a surprise given the reports that the appeals court judges hammered the NFLPA lawyers at oral argument. It sounds like they didn't like the fact that Tommy destroyed the cell phone.
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      04-25-2016, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
As a labour relaitons professional on the management side who has handled hundreds of employment investigations, argued many cases at arbitration, and negotiated several collective agreement ... this whole thing is ridiculous.
  1. I read the Wells Report. Even if you accept the science cited (which has been irrefutably disproved), his conclusions were entirely flawed. He concluded that the "preponderance of evidence" tipped in favour of Tom Brady being involved. I read the Wells Report and came to another equal conclusion: if the balls were tampered with (and there is no evidence that they were), the two equipment guys took it upon themselves to do so to keep the prima donna QB from bitching at them. If you have another equal probability, by definition ... you do not have the "preponderance of evidence" or balance of probabilities. That should have been a full stop to this whole thing.
  2. The science of the Wells Report was flawed in of itself. When the referee could not confirm which gauge was used and whether the same one was used at halftime as was used pregame ... you have no evidence upon which to draw any conculsions.
  3. Tom Brady's refusal to turn over his cell phone was appropriate. Given the kangaroo court nature of NFL justice, I'd be very cautious about letting them snoop. He agreed to turn over all relevant communication and there is no basis to conclude that he withheld anything. Turning over the phone is a red herring.

The NFL was wrong to impose any discipline on Brady or the Patriots. There was simply no evidence to support the conclusions of the Wells Report. Had the NFL Collective Agreement read like any other one I've ever seen (or negotiated) the grievance would have been adjudicated by a third party arbitrator who would have thrown out the discipline. End of story.

The problem with this whole case is the sheer negligence of the NFLPA in allowing the NFL Commissioner to be the final arbiter at his (or her) choosing. The lack of an independent grievance arbitration process allowed the NFL to conduct themselves in a manner entirely consistent with the Kangaroo Court they are.

The appellate decision is correct in that there was an overreach in overturning Goodell's decision as patently unreasonable. Portions of it were (such as the reliance on new evidence not before him in making his decision), but based on his acceptance of the Wells Report his decision was only unreasonable, not patently so.

What is really wrong about this is that the actual evidence is irrefutable: the balls were never tampered with. The pressures observed (by either gauge) have been proven to be within Ideal Gas Law parameters. Like him or not, a Hall of Fame QB's reputations has been unfairly tarnished and the Patriots as a franchise have been needlessly punished.
Thank you!... I'm so confused how this was reinstated. Unless I am really missing something there is no case here.
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      04-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
But they did, and that is the central issue Brady / Pats fans refuse to accept. He had absolute discretion in handing out the penalty. Personally, I think Brady was involved with tampering and trying to cover it up, but it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. The commissioner acted within his rights, as agreed by the NFLPA. Should have never been a court case. They can address it in the next CBA and Brady can sit out 4 games like he should have last season.
Except, the scientific evidence is overwhelming that no tampering with the balls actually occurred. While being right on a narrow and technical interpretation of arbitral deference does not mean the right thing happened here. The balls weren't tampered with and neither Brady nor the Pats deserved to be punished.

All this makes Goodell look even worse. If he had any integrity, he'd thank the Court for the decision and then announce that (based on now clear scientific evidence) all penalties in the case are vacated. Of course, he doesn't have any integrity so that ain't happening.

If you're looking for sources for my comments about scientific certainty:

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...lls-report.pdf
https://wellsreportmistakes.com/
http://www.nh1.com/full-coverage/deflategate/
http://people.csail.mit.edu/jleonard...ate_final2.pdf
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      04-25-2016, 03:00 PM   #15
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Why is this still a thing?

So far 2 judges have said Goodell overstepped and 2 said he didnt. Unfortunately for Brady, those 2 will get the last say.

As for whether or not Brady tampered with the balls, which i believe the "science" used by Wells proved nothing and the science used in other experiments proves he did not, the courts didnt assign guilt, just that Goodell can punish as he sees fit.

What I do find interesting is that despite the NFL "randomly" testing the PSI of footballs across varying circumstances throughout the season, there has been no official release of the results. There have only been rumors from unnamed sources that the general trend of the PSI measurements has supported the fact that the PSI in the footballs follows Brady's narrative.
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      04-25-2016, 03:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRPOWER View Post
Ha Ha!!!!! I love it!

J - E - T - S...............JETS - JETS - JETS
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      04-25-2016, 03:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
As for whether or not Brady tampered with the balls, which i believe the "science" used by Wells proved nothing and the science used in other experiments proves he did not, the courts didnt assign guilt, just that Goodell can punish as he sees fit.
But this is the ultimate point. It should have never gone to court in the first place.
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      04-25-2016, 03:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
But this is the ultimate point. It should have never gone to court in the first place.
without getting too into the details since I'm not an expert and I havent put in much time lately into this outside of what Ive seen and heard on ESPN and a few articles, the issue is the classification of the "Crime" and punishment.

NFLPA is arguing it is an equipment violation which is a small fine at most, where Goodell and the NFL is saying it is an "Integrity of the Game" violation which can carry a penalty of Goodells choosing.

Thats why it has been to the courts to decide.

Last edited by csu87; 04-25-2016 at 03:53 PM..
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      04-25-2016, 04:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
But this is the ultimate point. It should have never gone to court in the first place.
without getting too into the details since I'm not an expert and I havent put in much time lately into this outside of what Ive seen and heard on ESPN and a few articles, the issue is the classification of the "Crime" and punishment.

NFLPA is arguing it is an equipment violation which is a small fine at most, where Goodell and the NFL is saying it is an "Integrity of the Game" violation which can carry a penalty of Goodells choosing.

Thats why it has been to the courts to decide.
But the distinction is his to make.
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      04-25-2016, 04:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRPOWER View Post
Ha Ha!!!!! I love it!

J - E - T - S...............JETS - JETS - JETS
On the surface, I can see why you would be excited. Unfortunately a couple of things remain true...

#1 - The commissioner having the power to hand down his own form of justice is not good for the NFL or its fans. Luckily, you have him on your side as he favors (pity's?) the Jets. Revis tampering (100k) vs other teams tampering charges of multiple draft pick losses is one example.

#2 - Even as a Jets fan, you should see the mirage being presented in front of you. A player is being suspended for 4 games and the team loses multiple draft picks for practically nothing. This sets a bad precedent as it can happen to your team and your team will have no recourse.

#3 - The suspension will not affect the AFC East and Jets will still remain at the bottom.

#4 - Your teams chant is dumb as hell and makes people cringe.

#5 - Geno or is Fitzwho coming back?

#6 - TB12 is your daddy.
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      04-25-2016, 06:29 PM   #21
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Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. The only downside I see is now he has 4 games less to pull a Theismann. The plus side, maybe his second string will have as good numbers showing how overrated he is and how much his success is due to his offensive line and receivers and not to Tom, the journeyman qb that he is.
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      04-26-2016, 01:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
On the surface, I can see why you would be excited. Unfortunately a couple of things remain true...

#1 - The commissioner having the power to hand down his own form of justice is not good for the NFL or its fans. Luckily, you have him on your side as he favors (pity's?) the Jets. Revis tampering (100k) vs other teams tampering charges of multiple draft pick losses is one example.

#2 - Even as a Jets fan, you should see the mirage being presented in front of you. A player is being suspended for 4 games and the team loses multiple draft picks for practically nothing. This sets a bad precedent as it can happen to your team and your team will have no recourse.

#3 - The suspension will not affect the AFC East and Jets will still remain at the bottom.

#4 - Your teams chant is dumb as hell and makes people cringe.

#5 - Geno or is Fitzwho coming back?

#6 - TB12 is your daddy.
Lift your little Pat's skirt and take your spanking.................BIATCH!

GO JETS!
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