Highland park IL 4th of July parade shooting

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Pablo Chacon

We don't want to do it and it's not happening, get over it. We should ban banning things.

This!


Plus, he asserts, by proxy, that it's the law abiding citizens/gun owners committing the crimes (…and we all know that isn't true). Just about everything he mentioned/suggested is already instituted in states like California and New York, two of the country's bluest Democrat run, crime infested shit holes. I'm sure the laws in [Chicago] Illinois are very similar. Crime is off the charts in all three places. More laws will do nothing.

TL;DR - Criminals, by default, do not adhere to laws. More laws will do nothing to curtail them. If they aren't following the laws as it is, what makes anybody think they'll follow a few more additional laws?!?! It's such a flawed thought process. I'll never understand the reasoning behind it.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This!


Plus, he asserts, by proxy, that it's the law abiding citizens/gun owners committing the crimes (…and we all know that isn't true). Just about everything he mentioned/suggested is already instituted in states like California and New York, two of the country's bluest Democrat run, crime infested shit holes. I'm sure the laws in [Chicago] Illinois are very similar. Crime is off the charts in all three places. More laws will do nothing.

TL;DR - Criminals, by default, do not adhere to laws. More laws will do nothing to curtail them..

Like many things the alt right likes, it's just hard to do things, so we shouldn't do it. We don't need a well regulated militia per the Second Amendment. We can't wear masks. Vaccines are scary! It's all just so hard. We can't do hard things. :

What a crock of crap. From whenever the period is that y'all refer to that is MAGA, I think the people from that period of time that you want to glorify would be dismayed and/or would laugh at you because you're such candy asses.
Pablo sounds like he's in tears of the thought of not being able to have his AR 15.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

The weapon doesn't matter. Pistol, AR-15, machete, car, bus, plane, explosives, etc. People who want to do something bad enough will find a way to do it until met with resistance. Anyone with common sense realizes this. Ever been in an active shooter/attacker drill? Just one guy with a knife in a college campus will be able to assault several people lethally before being stopped. Something similar happened a few towns over from me a few years ago, the guy had a kitchen knife.

These kind of statements make it difficult to have open discussions.

The weapon absolutely matters. Did bombs bring down the WTC towers? Nope. Did airplanes? Yep. Would people with rifles have brought it down? Nope.

Have more restrictions on fertilizer been put in place after the OKC bombing?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Like many things the alt right likes, it's just hard to do things, so we shouldn't do it. We don't need a well regulated militia per the Second Amendment. We can't wear masks. Vaccines are scary! It's all just so hard. We can't do hard things. :

What a crock of crap. From whenever the period is that y'all refer to that is MAGA, I think the people from that period of time that you want to glorify would be dismayed and/or would laugh at you because you're such candy asses.
Pablo sounds like he's in tears of the thought of not being able to have his AR 15.

This is a policy issue…….a deductive reasoning issue……not a partisan issue. Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between hard and unrealistic. The only way to significantly reduce gun deaths - in theory - is to close the borders and rid the entire country of firearms. That is unrealistic and nearly impossible (…and the only reason I didn't render it impossible is because I try my best not to speak in absolutes).


P.S. Not to really delve back into the whole COVID issue, but a few knowns render the whole thing a fraud: 1) face masks do little to stop the transmission (…unless it's an N95, and 99% of people don't wear N95's), 2) the vaccines do nothing to stop actual transmission, so what's the point!?; natural immunity is the way to go anyway (…and that's echoed by the scientific community, at least those not on Fauci's payroll), and 3) it has already been revealed that COVID is man-made. Fauci's emails, Biden's intel directives, etc. have already revealed what all of us who could see the forest through the trees already knew. Biggest scam ever using a biological weapon produced in the Wuhan lab.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I propose the banning of all alcohol (…Prohibition 2022). It's sole purpose is to poison and intoxicate and it has no place in our society. Some people are irresponsible with their liquor consumption and the end result is the injury and/or death of others, so nobody should be able to drink alcohol ever again because of the decisions made by those people. Now, those who don't drink won't care, but those who drink recreationally and responsibly will. I think we can all agree that banning all alcohol will save thousands of lives directly and indirectly, so there shouldn't be any objections.



….that is, until people find another way to get drunk (…just like all of the jackasses in prison and the county jails who get drunk off of rubbing alcohol, fermented fruit/bread, etc.) or smuggle it in via various criminal networks, thus perpetuating the problem because…..

…people will find a way (…just like they did when alcohol was banned and people smuggled it in via other means; and those acts are one of the many reasons why law enforcement can search vehicles today….the Carroll Doctrine).

Its sole purpose is not to poison and intoxicate. A glass of wine will not poison nor impair the average person. A gun is a weapon in which its purpose is to cause harm. A bullet will harm or kill the average person.

But like you said before, no point in arguing on the internet as minds will not be changed. For me, it took a mass shooting in my hometown to open my eyes to the absurdity of being able to legally obtain a weapon of war. I hope for others that may have their viewpoint changed it does not take something so extreme.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is a policy issue…….a deductive reasoning issue……not a partisan issue. Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between hard and unrealistic. The only way to significantly reduce gun deaths - in theory - is to close the borders and rid the entire country of firearms. That is unrealistic and nearly impossible (…and the only reason I didn't render it impossible is because I try my best not to speak in absolutes).


P.S. Not to really delve back into the whole COVID issue, but a few knowns render the whole thing a fraud: 1) face masks do little to stop the transmission (…unless it's an N95, and 99% of people don't wear N95's), 2) the vaccines do nothing to stop actual transmission, so what's the point!?; natural immunity is the way to go anyway (…and that's echoed by the scientific community, at least those not on Fauci's payroll), and 3) it has already been revealed that COVID is man-made. Fauci's emails, Biden's intel directives, etc. have already revealed what all of us who could see the forest through the trees already knew. Biggest scam ever using a biological weapon produced in the Wuhan lab.

Lots of alt right propaganda there. My advice to you would be…… I won't tell you to stop watching Fox, but you should mix in some non-entertainment sources for news. Shep Smith is solid on CNBC, or if you want to read news, Reuters, AP, The Hill, and BBC are excellent non-biased news sources. They are not there for your confirmation bias. They simply report facts.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Its sole purpose is not to poison and intoxicate. A glass of wine will not poison nor impair the average person. A gun is a weapon in which its purpose is to cause harm. A bullet will harm or kill the average person.

But like you said before, no point in arguing on the internet as minds will not be changed. For me, it took a mass shooting in my hometown to open my eyes to the absurdity of being able to legally obtain a weapon of war. I hope for others that may have their viewpoint changed it does not take something so extreme.

Alcohol is poison. The sole intention of that poison is to intoxicate (…however minimal). It serves no other purpose.

Yes, some people can become intoxicated by consuming one glass of wine. Intoxication is dependent on body weight, tolerance, water in the system, timing of food (…pyloric valve), etc. I've done a number of wet labs where we've measured intoxication levels, I've made a ton of DUI and DUI-D arrests…… I have a ton of perspective when it comes to intoxication.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is a policy issue…….a deductive reasoning issue……not a partisan issue. Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between hard and unrealistic. The only way to significantly reduce gun deaths - in theory - is to close the borders and rid the entire country of firearms. That is unrealistic and nearly impossible (…and the only reason I didn't render it impossible is because I try my best not to speak in absolutes).


P.S. Not to really delve back into the whole COVID issue, but a few knowns render the whole thing a fraud: 1) face masks do little to stop the transmission (…unless it's an N95, and 99% of people don't wear N95's), 2) the vaccines do nothing to stop actual transmission, so what's the point!?; natural immunity is the way to go anyway (…and that's echoed by the scientific community, at least those not on Fauci's payroll), and 3) it has already been revealed that COVID is man-made. Fauci's emails, Biden's intel directives, etc. have already revealed what all of us who could see the forest through the trees already knew. Biggest scam ever using a biological weapon produced in the Wuhan lab.

I'm curious what the borders and gun violence have to do with each other. When you look at who perpetrates mass shootings in the US, most are white males born in the US.

As for your other statements, can you show a peer-reviewed source that agrees with your statements? Alex Jones and ZeroHedge need not apply.

No one ever said the vax prevented transmission. They said it would lower the severity so you wouldn't end up in the hospital.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-benefits.html

[gatorfast]

Its a major stretch of a point. I said average person in my response because of course there are exceptions. You can take too much Tylenol too and be poisoned from that.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Its sole purpose is not to poison and intoxicate. A glass of wine will not poison nor impair the average person. A gun is a weapon in which its purpose is to cause harm. A bullet will harm or kill the average person.

But like you said before, no point in arguing on the internet as minds will not be changed. For me, it took a mass shooting in my hometown to open my eyes to the absurdity of being able to legally obtain a weapon of war. I hope for others that may have their viewpoint changed it does not take something so extreme.

It seems I'm like you. I'm not into confirmation bias. I've always been a supporter of second amendment rights. I'm actually a big fan of conceal and carry, but with the permit, not the wild wild West that my governor wants.

But my mind has been changed on the assault weapons by the spate of massacres. I strongly suspect the number of people killed by bad guys with assault rifles far exceeds those lives that Have been saved by them for home defense. But the gun porn guys are welcome to show me that I'm wrong.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

It seems I'm like you. I'm not into confirmation bias. I've always been a supporter of second amendment rights. I'm actually a big fan of conceal and carry, but with the permit, not the wild wild West that my governor wants.

But my mind has been changed on the automatic weapons by the spate of massacres. I strongly suspect the number of people killed by bad guys with assault rifles far exceeds those lives that Have been saved by them for home defense. But the gun porn guys are welcome to show me that I'm wrong.

Did you mean semi-auto? Because automatic weapons have been illegal for decades....unless you have an FFL and are willing to spend $10k+ on a weapon.

I just point this out because if we are going to have an honest discussion, you have to use the proper terms. There is a huge difference between semi-auto and automatic. It's not the same as people saying "you called a magazine a clip, you're an idiot and don't know what you're talking about."

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Did you mean semi-auto? Because automatic weapons have been illegal for decades....unless you have an FFL and are willing to spend $10k+ on a weapon.

I just point this out because if we are going to have an honest discussion, you have to use the proper terms. There is a huge difference between semi-auto and automatic. It's not the same as people saying "you called a magazine a clip, you're an idiot and don't know what you're talking about."

I meant assault, not automatic. Thanks for the catch

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'm curious what the borders and gun violence have to do with each other. When you look at who perpetrates mass shootings in the US, most are white males born in the US.

As for your other statements, can you show a peer-reviewed source that agrees with your statements? Alex Jones and ZeroHedge need not apply.

No one ever said the vax prevented transmission. They said it would lower the severity so you wouldn't end up in the hospital.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-benefits.html

Borders and guns are related because…..


….the cartels smuggle in weapons right along with people and drugs. It's a huge issue. You may not hear about it, but I see it firsthand. Who is perpetuating the mass shootings is irrelevant to me considering most non-suicidal gun deaths are via handgun. I do agree that is it mostly white males (…between the ages of 13-18 years of age).

Do we need a peer review of everything revealed in Fauci's emails to HIS scientists/scientific contacts who articulated GOF, etc., and how portions of the sequence do not occur naturally and are man-made? Do we need a peer review when the scientist who lied about working with Wuhan lab admitted to working with the Wuhan lab? Do we need a peer review when it was confirmed that the Wuhan lab was experimenting with a virus found in 2012-2013, and COVID is 97% similar; the difference being the man-made aspects of the sequence? Now, keep in mind this all came from Fauci's emails with his team and Biden's intel community investigation. In other words, all of that information came from the Democrats and Democrat run Federal intel agencies (…for those who can only speak in partisan terms). So with all of that information being confirmed, you can only hold one of two positions: 1) the Biden administration, the CIA, the FBI, Fauci, etc. are lying, or 2) the Biden administration, the CIA, the FBI, Fauci, etc. are telling the truth. If your position is that they are all lying, you'd have to reasonably ask yourself, "Why?"……right?


P.S. Yes, people use the vaccine as some kind of preventable measure, that's why they threaten people's livelihood when they decide not to take it. If it were only about severity of the symptoms, I would ask, "Why do YOU care how severe my symptoms are? It's not your concern!"

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

I meant assault, not automatic. Thanks for the catch

"Assault" is more of a media term than anything else. Rifles that are relevant to this discussion are either semi-automatic or automatic.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

"Assault" is more of a media term than anything else. Rifles that are relevant to this discussion are either semi-automatic or automatic.

Assault means offensive. They're used for offensive attacks. Please site all the lives saved, or any instances, where the semi automatic rifles are used defensively.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Assault means offensive. They're used for offensive attacks. Please site all the lives saved, or any instances, where the semi automatic rifles are used defensively.

There are PLENTY. I haven't the time nor the desire to do all the work for you, but if you seek it, you will find it. It's not difficult. There are example, after example, after example of home defense situations with a rifle.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There are PLENTY. I haven't the time nor the desire to do all the work for you, but if you seek it, you will find it. It's not difficult. There are example, after example, after example of home defense situations with a rifle.

Sure…….

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Borders and guns are related because…..


….the cartels smuggle in weapons right along with people and drugs. It's a huge issue. You may not hear about it, but I see it firsthand. Who is perpetuating the mass shootings is irrelevant to me considering most non-suicidal gun deaths are via handgun. I do agree that is it mostly white males (…between the ages of 13-18 years of age).

Do we need a peer review of everything revealed in Fauci's emails to HIS scientists/scientific contacts who articulated GOF, etc., and how portions of the sequence do not occur naturally and are man-made? Do we need a peer review when the scientist who lied about working with Wuhan lab admitted to working with the Wuhan lab? Do we need a peer review when it was confirmed that the Wuhan lab was experimenting with a virus found in 2012-2013, and COVID is 97% similar; the difference being the man-made aspects of the sequence? Now, keep in mind this all came from Fauci's emails with his team and Biden's intel community investigation. In other words, all of that information came from the Democrats and Democrat run Federal intel agencies (…for those who can only speak in partisan terms). So with all of that information being confirmed, you can only hold one of two positions: 1) the Biden administration, the CIA, the FBI, Fauci, etc. are lying, or 2) the Biden administration, the CIA, the FBI, Fauci, etc. are telling the truth. If your position is that they are all lying, you'd have to reasonably ask yourself, "Why?"……right?


P.S. Yes, people use the vaccine as some kind of preventable measure, that's why they threaten people's livelihood when they decide not to take it. If it were only about severity of the symptoms, I would ask, "Why do YOU care how severe my symptoms are? It's not your concern!"

Yes, peer reviewed science helps to prevent people that believe in mythology. I don't want to make any assumptions about you, because that would be a dick move. I hope you see I'm trying to keep this all cordial and factual.

You still didn't share any credible sources that back up what you claim.

I'm very open to learn, I want both sides of the argument because the truth is somewhere in the middle. I find when either side won't share their sources, it's because they know they aren't credible.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Sure…….

Because you're too lazy to do anything yourself….

• 3/28/2017 (..Oklahoma), a man used his AR-15 to defend against three intruders who broke into his home.
  
• 7/10/2019 (..Florida), a man used his AR-15 to defend against four intruders who broke into his home.
  
• 4/7/2022 (…Texas), a man used his AR-15 to hold an intruder who broke into his home at gunpoint until police arrived.
  
• 2013 (..Texas), a 15 year old boy used an AR-15 to defend the life of his 12 year old sibling from two individuals that broke into their home.
  
• 2013 (…New York), a man used his AR-15 to defend against two intruders who broke into his apartment.
  
• 2017 (…Oklahoma), a 17 year old used his AR-15 to defend against three home intruders who broke into his home.

….and I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the point and you can reasonably set aside the false belief that nobody uses an AR-15 for home defense. I will not hold my breath since I do value life.

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Yes, peer reviewed science helps to prevent people that believe in mythology. I don't want to make any assumptions about you, because that would be a dick move. I hope you see I'm trying to keep this all cordial and factual.

You still didn't share any credible sources that back up what you claim.

I'm very open to learn, I want both sides of the argument because the truth is somewhere in the middle. I find when either side won't share their sources, it's because they know they aren't credible.

With regards to Fauci's emails and Biden's directives to the intel community (…and the results of that investigation), I don't know what more I can offer you honestly. It's not like the information isn't public record and/or cannot be researched if you doubt it's existence. I didn't make it up. I didn't write the emails. I wasn't the federal agent(s) who wrote the investigative reports. I suppose I could search it all for you, but I would think you're capable of doing it yourself?!??




I will do you a solid though because I feel that we could have an open discussion and agree/disagree respectfully. Gimme a sec to get the information for you.

[Pablo Chacon]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Like many things the alt right likes, it's just hard to do things, so we shouldn't do it. We don't need a well regulated militia per the Second Amendment. We can't wear masks. Vaccines are scary! It's all just so hard. We can't do hard things. :

What a crock of crap. From whenever the period is that y'all refer to that is MAGA, I think the people from that period of time that you want to glorify would be dismayed and/or would laugh at you because you're such candy asses.
Pablo sounds like he's in tears of the thought of not being able to have his AR 15.

Not worried one bit, I buy more and more with confidence, without concern to losing money due to them being banned/taken (or “bought back”) by the government.
Fortunately for me, I can go down to my local gun shop and buy as many AR-10/15 as I want and will have them within 10-20 minutes.
Even the Fed gov has sped up the process of owning NFA items, what use to take 11+ months of waiting, now is reduced to 60-120 days of waiting. That’s the progress we need. Soon there will be little to no wait on NFA items (fingers crossed).

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Because you're too lazy to do anything yourself….

• 3/28/2017 (..Oklahoma), a man used his AR-15 to defend against three intruders who broke into his home.
  
• 7/10/2019 (..Florida), a man used his AR-15 to defend against four intruders who broke into his home.
  
• 4/7/2022 (…Texas), a man used his AR-15 to hold an intruder who broke into his home at gunpoint until police arrived.
  
• 2013 (..Texas), a 15 year old boy used an AR-15 to defend the life of his 12 year old sibling from two individuals that broke into their home.
  
• 2013 (…New York), a man used his AR-15 to defend against two intruders who broke into his apartment.
  
• 2017 (…Oklahoma), a 17 year old used his AR-15 to defend against three home intruders who broke into his home.

….and I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the point and you can reasonably set aside the false belief that nobody uses an AR-15 for home defense. I will not hold my breath since I do value life.

With regards to Fauci's emails and Biden's directives to the intel community (…and the results of that investigation), I don't know what more I can offer you honestly. It's not like the information isn't public record and/or cannot be researched if you doubt it's existence. I didn't make it up. I didn't write the emails. I wasn't the federal agent(s) who wrote the investigative reports. I suppose I could search it all for you, but I would think you're capable of doing it yourself?!??




I will do you a solid though because I feel that we could have an open discussion and agree/disagree respectfully. Gimme a sec to get the information for you.

The part you addressed to me:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defensive-ar-15-uses/
So 8 people were killed by a Assault rifles defending homes or people since 2013. And the most telling paragraph in this article is how they talk about armed citizens always in shootings when given the opportunity, especially in the Baptist church shooting in Texas. What the article doesn't mention is that 27 people died before the hero got the gunman to commit suicide. The gunman in that attack used an assault rifle.

So between the Baptist church shooting, Buffalo, Uvalde, El Paso, and Highland Park Illinois, our tally so far is 8 bad guys killed by assault rifles (+1 alligator), 60+ killed by bad guys.

[tcphoto]

I think that one of the issues with the US is the shifting mindset from "what's best for our Country" to the current, "what's best for me" mentality. Those that fought for our freedoms whether soldiers, politicians or private citizens made huge sacrifices. Today, we have a large segment of the US that operates like it's all about them and they will do as they please at a cost to everyone else. We've averaged one mass shooting a week this year, who's going to express their anger this week and where? What are they actually so angry about and do they think that they will kill the source of their anger?