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      08-09-2018, 09:58 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
The Manafort trial is a joke.. what does this have anything to do with Russian collusion.. none.

The guy broke the tax law over 10 yrs ago.. something most Americans do every year.. yes.. cheat ever so slightly on taxes..
Read the indictment. You and Anglo both. READ IT. Y'all are just looking dumb right now, hanging to this idea that Manafort and Gates got popped for some meaningless, trivial, little slip in tax law over 10 years ago. Keep hanging on to that idea for dear life if you want. The rest of us will just keep laughing at you.
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      08-09-2018, 11:00 AM   #266
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Opening statement.

1. Defendants PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR. (MANAFORT) and RICHARD W. GATES III (GATES) served for years as political consultants and lobbyists. Between at least 2006 and 2015, MANAFORT and GATES acted as unregistered agents of the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions... In order to hide Ukraine payments from United States authorities, from approximately 2006 through at least 2016, MANAFORT and GATES laundered money through scores of United States and foreign corporations, partnerships and bank accounts.
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      08-09-2018, 11:01 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Sorry - my question was rhetorical.

I don't think it's acceptable for the American public to be expected to give Mueller over a year to conduct his investigation, with no evidence, no measurement, and no accountability.
The tons of indictments and guilty pleas so far says that they have produced plently of evidence which has given the investigation more than enough credability to continue. Surely you would agree that busting these people for the alledged crimes they have committed is a good thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
We need some sort of blue dress at this point - something that shows an indication of progress; else it's just a witch hunt, distraction, and enabling of the #resist crowd - none of which is legitimate.
Come on man... You're arguing that not showing the public (and in turn the suspects) evidence from an ongoing investigation takes away its legitimacy. You couldn't find a worse argument if you tried.
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      08-09-2018, 11:11 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Sorry - my question was rhetorical.

I don't think it's acceptable for the American public to be expected to give Mueller over a year to conduct his investigation, with no evidence, no measurement, and no accountability. We need some sort of blue dress at this point - something that shows an indication of progress; else it's just a witch hunt, distraction, and enabling of the #resist crowd - none of which is legitimate.
I think it would be safe to say that many citizens don't like the "not knowing". Other's believe it is a witch hunt. Me, I believe its necessary because if crimes were committed by any in the orbit of the president they must be held accountable.

Its not unusual for investigations to go on for years. No statute of limitations exists for the investigation by special councils. For example:

Iran-contra: 6 years, 8 months (1986-1993)

Samuel Pierce, HUD corruption: 9 years (1990-1999)

George H.W. Bush administration, improper search of passport records: 3 years (1992-1995)

Henry Cisneros, mistress payments: 11 years (1995-2006)

Mike Espy, gifts from agriculture company: 6 years (1994-2001)

Bill and Hillary Clinton, Whitewater: 6 years 8 months (1994-2000)

Lewis “Scooter” Libby, CIA leak: 3˝ years (2003-2007)

Source: WP https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.feb16dd52ead.

Check out the link. Its pretty good.
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      08-09-2018, 11:23 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
I think it would be safe to say that many citizens don't like the "not knowing". Other's believe it is a witch hunt. Me, I believe its necessary because if crimes were committed by any in the orbit of the president they must be held accountable.

Its not unusual for investigations to go on for years. No statute of limitations exists for the investigation by special councils. For example:

Iran-contra: 6 years, 8 months (1986-1993)

Samuel Pierce, HUD corruption: 9 years (1990-1999)

George H.W. Bush administration, improper search of passport records: 3 years (1992-1995)

Henry Cisneros, mistress payments: 11 years (1995-2006)

Mike Espy, gifts from agriculture company: 6 years (1994-2001)

Bill and Hillary Clinton, Whitewater: 6 years 8 months (1994-2000)

Lewis “Scooter” Libby, CIA leak: 3˝ years (2003-2007)

Source: WP https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.feb16dd52ead.

Check out the link. Its pretty good.
Benghazi investigation 2+ years.
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      08-09-2018, 11:26 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Sorry - my question was rhetorical.

I don't think it's acceptable for the American public to be expected to give Mueller over a year to conduct his investigation, with no evidence, no measurement, and no accountability.
The tons of indictments and guilty pleas so far says that they have produced plently of evidence which has given the investigation more than enough credability to continue. Surely you would agree that busting these people for the alledged crimes they have committed is a good thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
We need some sort of blue dress at this point - something that shows an indication of progress; else it's just a witch hunt, distraction, and enabling of the #resist crowd - none of which is legitimate.
Come on man... You're arguing that not showing the public (and in turn the suspects) evidence from an ongoing investigation takes away its legitimacy. You couldn't find a worse argument if you tried.
Indictments and guilty pleas - in cases that have nothing to do with the election.

There's nothing here - still nothing.

Mueller needs to put up or shut up - he needs to be regulated by someone
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      08-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Indictments and guilty pleas - in cases that have nothing to do with the election.

There's nothing here - still nothing.

Mueller needs to put up or shut up - he needs to be regulated by someone
Like, say, the Trump-appointed Deputy Attorney General for the United States, as an example?

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      08-09-2018, 11:48 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Indictments and guilty pleas - in cases that have nothing to do with the election.

There's nothing here - still nothing.

Mueller needs to put up or shut up - he needs to be regulated by someone
Your logic seriously baffles me.

Mueller's directive:

Quote:
By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C.
§§ 509, 510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and
management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the
Russian govemmenfs efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as
follows:
(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed t() serve as Specia] Counsel for the United States
Department of Justice.
(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI
Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
Mueller's finding:

Quote:
1. Defendants PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR. (MANAFORT) and RICHARD W. GATES III (GATES) served for years as political consultants and lobbyists. Between at least 2006 and 2015, MANAFORT and GATES acted as unregistered agents of the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions... In order to hide Ukraine payments from United States authorities, from approximately 2006 through at least 2016, MANAFORT and GATES laundered money through scores of United States and foreign corporations, partnerships and bank accounts.
Manafort and Gates both top advisers to the Trump campaign. Seriously, no connection in your mind? Nothing? Never happened?
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      08-09-2018, 11:51 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Your logic seriously baffles me.

Mueller's directive:



Mueller's finding:



Manafort and Gates both top advisers to the Trump campaign. Seriously, no connection in your mind? Nothing? Never happened?
So you're saying they helped us authorities from 2006-2015. Which US authorities were they working for?
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      08-09-2018, 11:52 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Indictments and guilty pleas - in cases that have nothing to do with the election.

There's nothing here - still nothing.

Mueller needs to put up or shut up - he needs to be regulated by someone
Pretty sure you're wumming with the "there's nothing here" argument now..
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      08-09-2018, 12:15 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockin330i View Post
So you're saying they helped us authorities from 2006-2015. Which US authorities were they working for?
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Manafort and Gates helped themselves from 2006 to 2015.

What I'm saying is:

1) Mueller is clearly investigating and indicting for crimes that are within the scope of his special counsel directive.

2) Manafort and Gates have a long history of criminal activity, including acting as unregistered, undisclosed, agents of a foreign county as recently as 2015.

3) Manafort and Gates held prominent positions in Trumps campaign in 2016.

4) Manafort was running multiple money laundering and tax evasion schemes to try to keep his head above water in 2016, after his cashflow from the Ukraine dried up. He then offers to work for the Trump campaign for free. Why? Seems pretty obvious to me. He wanted to turn that Russian spigot of cash back on and wanted to use his position with the Trump campaign as incentive to do it.
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      08-09-2018, 01:33 PM   #276
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If I knew I'd done something bad and The Hounds From Hell were spending night and day trying to unearth my naughtiness, this isn't how I'd talk to them:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
This is an illegally brought Rigged Witch Hunt run by people who are totally corrupt and/or conflicted. It was started and paid for by Crooked Hillary and the Democrats. Phony Dossier, FISA disgrace and so many lying and dishonest people already fired. 17 Angry Dems? Stay tuned!
11:02 AM · Aug 9, 2018

Why would he keep sticking them between the ribs if he was guilty? Maybe it's just me.
The 'Stay Tuned' bit tells me he's about to pull an ace from the hole.
Declassification?

What made me chuckle was his tweet right after the one above.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Space Force all the way!
11:03 AM · Aug 9, 2018


He's a piece of work.
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      08-09-2018, 02:01 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
If I knew I'd done something bad and The Hounds From Hell were spending night and day trying to unearth my naughtiness, this isn't how I'd talk to them:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
This is an illegally brought Rigged Witch Hunt run by people who are totally corrupt and/or conflicted. It was started and paid for by Crooked Hillary and the Democrats. Phony Dossier, FISA disgrace and so many lying and dishonest people already fired. 17 Angry Dems? Stay tuned!
11:02 AM · Aug 9, 2018

Why would he keep sticking them between the ribs if he was guilty? Maybe it's just me.
The 'Stay Tuned' bit tells me he's about to pull an ace from the hole.
Declassification?

What made me chuckle was his tweet right after the one above.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Space Force all the way!
11:03 AM · Aug 9, 2018


He's a piece of work.
It's a legitimate question, Gonzo. Keep in mind, that Mueller and his team cant/wont respond. It's a one-sided debate. Trump can throw out any insult, any accusation, about Mueller and his team knowing full well he will not get a response. Inaccurate or misleading statements (Mueller is a Democrat. Mueller is upset over a bad business deal. Mueller has a conflict of interest.) go unchallenged. Say those things enough and people start to believe them. Win the court of public opinion and perhaps people stick with you if the sh*t hits the fan and you fire Sessions, Rosenstein, or start pardoning people.

But to really answer your question as to why Trump is doing things that are not advisable: Because he's Trump and he cant be controlled. His own legal team is begging him not to do this sh*t, but you know he's going to do it anyway.
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      08-09-2018, 02:04 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
It's a legitimate question, Gonzo. Keep in mind, that Mueller and his team cant/wont respond. It's a one-sided debate. Trump can throw out any insult, any accusation, about Mueller and his team knowing full well he will not get a response. Inaccurate or misleading statements (Mueller is a Democrat. Mueller is upset over a bad business deal. Mueller has a conflict of interest.) go unchallenged. Say those things enough and people start to believe them. Win the court of public opinion and perhaps people stick with you if the sh*t hits the fan and you fire Sessions, Rosenstein, or start pardoning people.

But to really answer your question as to why Trump is doing things that are not advisable: Because he's Trump and he cant be controlled. His own legal team is begging him not to do this sh*t, but you know he's going to do it anyway.
The more Trump tweets stuff like that, the guiltier he sounds to me.
Innocent people don't act that way.
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      08-09-2018, 02:06 PM   #279
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Another day, still nothing. Losing never gets old for some I guess.
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      08-09-2018, 02:16 PM   #280
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Innocent people with an ego the size of Venus may act this way...

I'm giving this another couple of months, either way. Mueller, I highly doubt, wants any sort of election interference monikers tagged on his resume.
Then again, it may still be ruling the news NEXT August.
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      08-09-2018, 02:20 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Innocent people with an ego the size of Venus may act this way...

I'm giving this another couple of months, either way. Mueller, I highly doubt, wants any sort of election interference monikers tagged on his resume.
Then again, it may still be ruling the news NEXT August.
What's likely to happen is they'll close the investigation with some kind of caveat that while there's a hint of obstruction, no other evidence was found of Russian/Trump administration collusion. There will be some strongly worded release sort of like what Comey did regarding the Hillary investigation. While nothing concrete was found..still blah blah blah.

There's no way Mueller and the boys can come up with a big goose egg at this point. They'll try to point to something so all the mind controlled lemmings can go "AH HA SEE!!!". That way they can feel good about not lying to themselves for the past two years and go to bed at night still believing the DNC concocted fairy tale that Trump colluded with the Russians.
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      08-09-2018, 02:20 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Benghazi investigation 2+ years.
Exactly. This is just my opinion and I don't mean any disrespect for people who are impatient for the investigation to conclude or to show facts of substance, but the ones who are screaming the most, I think, don't understand in detail the importance of the independent counsel. They view it as an attack only on the president. This is "tweetingly"short sighted. We have what appears to be an attack on the corner stone of our democracy. Its vitally important to get the facts straight and if it takes 3 years, so be it. Any good attorney, or prosecutor will take the time necessary to build her or his case. If they find no evidence of a crime, they cannot proceed. If they do, they must.
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      08-09-2018, 02:24 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
Exactly. This is just my opinion and I don't mean any disrespect for people who are impatient for the investigation to conclude or to show facts of substance, but the ones who are screaming the most, I think, don't understand in detail the importance of the independent counsel. They view it as an attack only on the president. This is "tweetingly"short sighted. We have what appears to be an attack on the corner stone of our democracy. Its vitally important to get the facts straight and if it takes 3 years, so be it. Any good attorney, or prosecutor will take the time necessary to build her or his case. If they find no evidence of a crime, they cannot proceed. If they do, they must.
But Jim Jordan wants answers now! Before he's arrested!
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      08-09-2018, 02:26 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
What's likely to happen is they'll close the investigation with some kind of caveat that while there's a hint of obstruction, no other evidence was found of Russian/Trump administration collusion. There will be some strongly worded release sort of like what Comey did regarding the Hillary investigation. While nothing concrete was found..still blah blah blah.

There's no way Mueller and the boys can come up with a big goose egg at this point. They'll try to point to something so all the mind controlled lemmings can go "AH HA SEE!!!". That way they can feel good about not lying to themselves for the past two years and go to bed at night still believing the DNC concocted fairy tale that Trump colluded with the Russians.
Mueller has already been successful in what he was charged with doing. His team brought indictments against the Russian hackers. he's uncovered Manafort and Gates as criminal low lifes who acted on behalf of a foreign government.

Personally, I'd be thrilled if Muller wrapped up the investigation and concluded that Manafort and Gates were dirtbags who got their way onto the Trump campaign with the intention of personal enrichment through back channel connections with the Russians, but failed miserably. If the conspiracy and treason stopped right there, I'd be elated. Hopefully it does, but we have to investigate to find out.
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      08-09-2018, 02:27 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Mueller has already been successful in what he was charged with doing. His team brought indictments against the Russian hackers. he's uncovered Manafort and Gates as criminal low lifes who acted on behalf of a foreign government.

Personally, I'd be thrilled if Muller wrapped up the investigation and concluded that Manafort and Gates were dirtbags who got their way onto the Trump campaign with the intention of personal enrichment through back channel connections with the Russians, but failed miserably. If the conspiracy and treason stopped right there, I'd be elated. Hopefully it does, but we have to investigate to find out.
Sounds good to me, if Manafort and Gates are guilty as charged burn the scum.
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      08-09-2018, 02:27 PM   #286
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But Jim Jordan wants answers now! Before he's arrested!
Well, Jim Jordan is a grad of Capital University Law School...enough said.
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