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      09-28-2020, 04:04 AM   #89
ADEe92
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In Europe the uptake of manual transmissions is still 65 - 80% depending on country. Unfortunately in the US it's 3% and Australia about 9%!

Automatics will be pushed hard by the manufacturers due to driver aids though - notice that the adaptive cruise / autonomous braking etc. aren't available on manuals. Insurance companies will then push up the premiums for people without driver aids leading through to full automation. They wonder why people are so distracted when they drive... it's a self fulfilling prophecy really.

Still - all our family cars are manuals. We live in a city with little traffic congestion & even my wife's Hyundai Elantra is entertaining to drive with the 6-speed manual (if not exactly fast)
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      09-28-2020, 09:42 AM   #90
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All adaptive aids are available to manuals. Lane keep, computer emergency braking, adaptive cruise, etc. Not all car makers choose to equip this on their manuals tho.
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      09-28-2020, 11:52 AM   #91
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All adaptive aids are available to manuals. Lane keep, computer emergency braking, adaptive cruise, etc. Not all car makers choose to equip this on their manuals tho.
ACC and emergency braking donít work the same with a manual, defeats the purpose.
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      09-28-2020, 12:45 PM   #92
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This post is from 2015 so it's not exactly new technology (not my post).. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Transmission

I've driven in a golf R with the option and it works well enough on the highway. If you do something stupid it will slam on the brakes.. I didn't turn it on in city driving to test low speeds. It's coded to hold speed while shifting as well. I still don't care for the option and wouldn't pay extra for it.
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      09-30-2020, 01:11 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
ACC and emergency braking donít work the same with a manual, defeats the purpose.
I've felt the emergency braking take a quick stab at the brakes in my M2, which is a 6 speed. It was literally a split second, my passenger didn't even really notice, but the system definitely exists and works with manual transmission cars.
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      10-03-2020, 08:38 AM   #94
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All adaptive aids are available to manuals. Lane keep, computer emergency braking, adaptive cruise, etc. Not all car makers choose to equip this on their manuals tho.
I see no reason to have driver aids. Either you like to drive and take responsibility for your driving, or take public transportation. The only reason manufacturers are putting driver aids in cars is because people can't stay off their effing phones.

Is it really that hard to just pay attention to the road?
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      10-03-2020, 09:59 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I see no reason to have driver aids. Either you like to drive and take responsibility for your driving, or take public transportation. The only reason manufacturers are putting driver aids in cars is because people can't stay off their effing phones.

Is it really that hard to just pay attention to the road?
So old people donít deserve to drive? There isnít public transportation where many, probably most, people live.

Just speaking to demographics, Subaru sells like crack to older folks with their driving aids, making a safer car and experience for them. That demographic has exploded in the last 10-15 yrs. And like everyone else, they are on the phones too, but itís not just about phones.

I donít disagree with more accountability and enforcement (requiring cell companies disable phones while in motion, etc.), but if Iím going from point a to b, Iíll use the adaptive cruise control in traffic. It beats monkeying pedals for no reason. Hell, cruise control is an ďaidĒ, so where does it start or stop?
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      10-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
So old people don’t deserve to drive? There isn’t public transportation where many, probably most, people live.

Just speaking to demographics, Subaru sells like crack to older folks with their driving aids, making a safer car and experience for them. That demographic has exploded in the last 10-15 yrs. And like everyone else, they are on the phones too, but it’s not just about phones.

I don’t disagree with more accountability and enforcement (requiring cell companies disable phones while in motion, etc.), but if I’m going from point a to b, I’ll use the adaptive cruise control in traffic. It beats monkeying pedals for no reason. Hell, cruise control is an “aid”, so where does it start or stop?
We're not saying driver aids are inherently bad, we ARE saying the more driver aids available the less people will care about driving. It's just human nature.

Driving was never a right, even though the US treats it like one. You should only be allowed to drive if you are qualified, that's why you need a license. If you're old and your senses are bad enough that you need aids to help you drive safely, then you should be forced to find other means of travel, whether it's ride share or bus. Just because you think you deserve to drive don't give you the right to endanger other people with your incompetency. This applies to all other aged incompetent drivers as well.

If you look at the traffic death statistics, from 10 years ago, in 2019 there was actually more death than 2009, with all of the supposedly life saving driver aids we've had since.
All these new driver aids we have today don't really help much, proven by statistics.

Going from point A to B, even in traffic, as a car enthusiast, I would still want to enjoy the drive, and that's in a manual if I have the choice.
I'd only use cruise control for long drives periodically to rest my foot for short times, then I'm back full manual control. Last example was across a 25hr road trip.
While on cruise control, the only difference is the right foot not on the pedal, every other driving sense is still fully there.

I understand not many people get this. But to me driving the car manually is not a chore, it's a treat. At all times.
You say " monkeying pedals for no reason", I say there's always a reason if you're a driver.

Last edited by poweredbym; 10-03-2020 at 02:33 PM..
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      10-03-2020, 01:36 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
So old people donít deserve to drive? There isnít public transportation where many, probably most, people live.

Just speaking to demographics, Subaru sells like crack to older folks with their driving aids, making a safer car and experience for them. That demographic has exploded in the last 10-15 yrs. And like everyone else, they are on the phones too, but itís not just about phones.

I donít disagree with more accountability and enforcement (requiring cell companies disable phones while in motion, etc.), but if Iím going from point a to b, Iíll use the adaptive cruise control in traffic. It beats monkeying pedals for no reason. Hell, cruise control is an ďaidĒ, so where does it start or stop?
Did I say old people shouldn't drive? No, I didn't, I said people should pay attention to the act of driving when they drive. If a person is old enough that driver aids are needed to help them drive because their physical or mental acuity is lacking, then that is problematic. I've been through that with both of my parents, both now deceased. At some point the elderly need to have their driving license sun stetted.

The "Subaru demographic" also tends to think the Earth is dying and will eventually make humans extinct. Some even think it may happen in their lifetime; perhaps they should pay more attention to the road rather than NPR. Subarus aren't Love; they are metal, plastic, silicone, and other carbon-based materials and run on carbon fuels just like every other car manufactured on the planet. LOL.

BTW, I live in a rural area, where there is no public transportation, but rural folks tend to take care of their elders.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      10-03-2020, 01:59 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
Manual as a toy car. Automatic for daily driver.
But in my opinion manual cars are fantastic as driver is efficiently engaged with the vehicle and have full control over gears and when to shift.
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      10-03-2020, 02:20 PM   #99
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But in my opinion manual cars are fantastic as driver is efficiently engaged with the vehicle and have full control over gears and when to shift.
I posted the following in the other thread on missing MT.

I drive AT, come from an MT background, (over 35 years of MT before I bought my first AT).

A personal observation. When MT was a simple 4-speed, (perhaps with overdrive), correct gears and appropriate changes were so much more important to good driving and harmonising with less and/or limited torque spreads. 6-speed MT less so, IMO, particularly as engines have a wider mid range and are generally more flexible. 'Multiple' gear changing can become a chore, more so than the precise driving interaction of the past.
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      10-03-2020, 07:02 PM   #100
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I'm 67-years-old and have been driving manual transmission BMWs for over 49-years.

4-speed, 5-speed, and 6-speed are all engaging and more enjoyable to drive for me.

My most recent is a 128i M-sport 6-speed which so far is the most fun of any.

I don't understand the argument. Either you enjoy driving a stick, or you drive an automatic. No one drives a stick these days for economy. We do it because we want to be as involved in the operation or our fun cars as much as possible. My commute is 16-miles and takes me around 20-minutes to complete. I find the drive in a manual more fun and more engaging as long as I'm in my BMW. There's nothing wrong if you just like driving an automatic and I've always felt sticks in SUVs were out-of-place—even in BMW SAVs. If I needed an X3 or X5, I'd drive one. But I don't so I drive a 128i M-sport 6T, or an E39 530i M-sport 5MT, or an E34 525i 5MT, or an E28 535i 5MT. I wouldn't consider any of those, for me, in anything but a stick.
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