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      06-30-2019, 05:47 PM   #573
clee1982
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I wouldn't written off FWD, Honda Civic Type-R has better ring time then just about anything BMW makes...
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      06-30-2019, 05:47 PM   #574
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I was kinda expecting a M240i gran coupe with the B58 engine.
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      06-30-2019, 05:58 PM   #575
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I was kinda expecting a M240i gran coupe with the B58 engine.
Its BMW in 2019, that was the least of my expectations sadly
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      06-30-2019, 06:38 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
I wouldn't written off FWD, Honda Civic Type-R has better ring time then just about anything BMW makes...
Honda has been building nice handling FWD R vehicles since the late 90's. They've mastered it!
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      06-30-2019, 07:30 PM   #577
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Understeering and squealing like a pig in pain! Make it stop!
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      06-30-2019, 08:11 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Honda has been building nice handling FWD R vehicles since the late 90's. They've mastered it!
Experience helps but it's not like its rocket science and something that BMW couldn't replicate or figure out. The upcoming MINI JCW GP is reported to have a Nurburgring time of 7:56 - that's faster than the M2 (as per Car Magazine time), E92 M3 and puts it in the same company as some 911 variants.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. Everyone is going to have their preferences. And to some, FWD is "cool" just as long as BMW doesn't do it.
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      06-30-2019, 08:18 PM   #579
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I think the 2 Series Grand Coupe will become successful because the beloved 3 Series is becoming increasingly bloated and ever more expensive. This is definitely a size segment that needs to come back!
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      06-30-2019, 09:11 PM   #580
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If they ever made an M2 variant of this car, I would be all over it. I generally prefer sedans to coupes. Itís the only reason why I havenít purchased the M2.
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      06-30-2019, 09:32 PM   #581
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Yeah! I think BMW's problem is that the company is trying to be a jack of all trades, simultaneously mastering none.
I can agree with that.

Mercedes has figured out they have to many models, and are planning cuts accordingly.

BMW will eventually figure it out and cut their offerings instead of completely whoring it out.
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      06-30-2019, 10:06 PM   #582
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I want this please! 6MT and RWD 😁
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      06-30-2019, 11:24 PM   #583
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I want this please! 6MT and RWD 😁
Oh god I hope the proportions will be better than that..
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      07-01-2019, 12:53 AM   #584
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Another GC derivative, another sales success story.
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      07-01-2019, 02:48 AM   #585
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That body shape and stance does not look very "BMW" at all. It is a sedan version of the new 1 series ... which is underwhelming to say the least. We'll see what the end product looks like but at this stage ... meh!
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      07-01-2019, 05:04 AM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
I can agree with that.

Mercedes has figured out they have to many models, and are planning cuts accordingly.

BMW will eventually figure it out and cut their offerings instead of completely whoring it out.
That, plus people will complain about the lack of legroom/headroom in such a small platform. It's like BMW makes 4 door vehicles just for the sake of making 4 door vehicles.
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      07-01-2019, 07:25 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
That body shape and stance does not look very "BMW" at all. It is a sedan version of the new 1 series ... which is underwhelming to say the least. We'll see what the end product looks like but at this stage ... meh!
I dunno?

It doesn't look that far off from the e46 330i

I'm looking for something along that size and form factor. I think that would go over very well.
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      07-01-2019, 07:49 AM   #588
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Nooo, not another generic fwd millennial pandering from BMW !! 1st the 1 series lost it's rwd 6 pot setup, now the 2 series get neutered too.
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      07-01-2019, 09:53 AM   #589
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I wouldn't written off FWD, Honda Civic Type-R has better ring time then just about anything BMW makes...
In fairness, the car with the better ring time was about as cheaty as it gets. It was running on cup2s, had a roll cage, and the interior was stripped down. It’s a fine car but that ring time is absolute bullshit.
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      07-01-2019, 09:55 AM   #590
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Separate note, going to start calling my car a “Gran Sedan”. If BMW can make up words, I feel like I can too.
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      07-01-2019, 10:23 AM   #591
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2-series (non-M) is the only BMW model with kind of flat fenders and skinny bottom. There is no muscular feeling compared to 1-3-5 and all other series.
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      07-01-2019, 11:04 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
A big part of it comes down to working on cars with transverse engines/fwd, have to remove too much stuff to do maintenance to the front suspension/drivetrain and practically pull apart the whole front of the cars to change a clutch(remove tranny). Also just the actual handling of decent hp fwd cars, any that I have driven just can't match a proper RWD car.
Again - YMMV, but I agree with most of the handling concerns when putting a car on a racetrack, but let's be honest, nearly no one does that. Running around town, or even through curvy mountain roads, I've found my Cooper S to be nearly as entertaining as my Ferrari for a fraction of the cost. The BMW didn't even compare to either of them.

With respect to repairing - I don't typically do any major repairs myself on my cars, but for minor things like fluid changes, belts and hoses, and plugs, coils, and things like that, I've found that the BMW was as complicated and sometimes more so than any FWD car I've owned.

Don't get me wrong - I love RWD cars and still think the 360, my past Miata, and old Alfa spider were probably the most fun cars I've ever owned. That said, don't discount FWD 'just because'. It has it's place too and can be a blast on the right platform.

Heck - I'd reckon to say that a Fiesta ST is more fun on the streets and maybe even on a track than a modern 3 series BMW.
Indeed. Not to mention many of the driver focused FWD (Type R, Megan RS Trophy) are kinda hanging with or beating the M2 M3/4 etc on N Ring times.

I await much flame for this comment and maybe BMW approaches these runs differently.
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      07-01-2019, 12:18 PM   #593
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Indeed. Not to mention many of the driver focused FWD (Type R, Megan TS Trophy) are kinda hanging to even the M2 M3/4 etc on ting times.

I await much flame for this comment and maybe BMW approaches these runs differently.
Yep - and I agree 100%. I don't think anyone is going to discount that RWD has a more sporting feel to it, and overall a more sporty drive. It is important to note, however, that it is no longer the end-all, be-all. FWD and AWD have made large leaps in terms of performance and feel over the last couple of decades. So much so, in fact, that they now approach the performance and feel of RWD.

An M2 is a great car, no doubt about it. Same for a Porsche Cayman. But again, so is the Civic Type R (albeit hideously ugly), the Cooper JCW, the GTi, RS3, and many other cars.

They talk about 'badge snobs'. They should also talk about 'drive line' snobs.

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      07-01-2019, 01:24 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
I wouldn't written off FWD, Honda Civic Type-R has better ring time then just about anything BMW makes...
In fairness, the car with the better ring time was about as cheaty as it gets. It was running on cup2s, had a roll cage, and the interior was stripped down. It's a fine car but that ring time is absolute bullshit.
Sure about cheaty ring time, but even if you add 30 seconds to it still better than a ton RWD
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