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      06-26-2019, 12:31 AM   #2003
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
I live in NYC, most garage is crap with regard to charging otherwise I might have bought Tesla instead 540...

I really look forward when BMW can deliver 600hp with 3700 lb...

Electric vehicle instant torque is addicting, can't see how combustion engine can compete in the long run, I understand how everyone talk about emotional attachment but just imagine the day when you're always the last to be off the line on traffic light and always slowest to merge on the highway...
Bring that Tesla in Canada, jump in it in Calgary and go through The Rockies. All ICE vehicles will pass you slow while you are waiting for the grizly bear to bring you a bucket of power...
Oh, did I mentioned -40 C (or F), the “ideal” environment for your vehicle which will short your distance by half?
And This is without heating and your fan on. And BTW, do not listen that AC DC tune too loud... Better turn the radio off, we need the battery!
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      06-26-2019, 12:36 AM   #2004
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Originally Posted by Roch M4 View Post
EV's are only a trend! We don't have anyway enough ressources to built millions of them and an electric car is just a regular car with an external combustion engine. They drive green locally but they create the same pollution in another place to produce electricity. 87% of worldwide electricity is based on coal, fuel or nuclear production. Extraction or rare earth to make the electric engine and the battery is not really eco friendly.


Cool story brosef.

Why not spread your FUD elsewhere.
But he's right! There's not enough lithium on the planet for all these batteries. And how exactly are we charging all of them?
At this time there is no issue charging cars. Expect public charging must be built out.

California is implemented new laws that brand new homes have to have solar panels and electric charge outlets in.

And battery tech is advancing every day and there are numerous suppliers that are ready to supply the automotive Giants of the world.
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      06-26-2019, 12:38 AM   #2005
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I love when Europeans tell everybody that ICE will be regulated out of existence. Maybe in your country of like what 12 million people they will. Not gonna happen in the US which is a country of 330 million.

I'm prepared to leave the German brands in the dust when the time comes and go American Muscle. By the look of things Porsche is gonna be the only brand left in a few years worth a damn anyway.
He forgot to tell you how much brainwashing Sweden , Norway and Co give them everyday and what taxes they put on ICE to FORCE THEM to buy electric. Freedom of chice isn’t it?
Of course when you have no choice, that’s the better choice.
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      06-26-2019, 12:41 AM   #2006
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Originally Posted by chriscam95 View Post
It’s time to put this myth to rest...
https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the...-bu-1834338565
Do yourself a favour and read more than just Jalopnik amateure-esque crap.
Any well educated engineer in car manufacturing can enlighten you about the cost and environmental foot print left behind by the process of building an electric vehicle. A simple search will also help you understand how much that car needs to run in order to be green...

Jalopnik “specialists”
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      06-26-2019, 02:07 AM   #2007
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He forgot to tell you how much brainwashing Sweden , Norway and Co give them everyday and what taxes they put on ICE to FORCE THEM to buy electric. Freedom of chice isn’t it?
Of course when you have no choice, that’s the better choice.
Actually to be fair before you speak up yeah Swedish government is pushing hard on the people with this even though Sweden being on of the least environmental impact countries out there in the world. Where Sweden is one of the lowest countries causing environmental harm that's where there is other countries that should step up their game and take responsibility for their actions.

My self i din't switch to an EV vehicles because the government pushed me to it, i switched because i found the EV vehicles are a lot more fun then ICE vehicles, and Fun is a subjective term what i regard as fun is different then you but if my fun causes less harm for the environment then great that's just a bonus on the list. So don't assume stuff if you know nothing about the other person or other people for that matter. It makes ya look foolish.

I have driven loads of fun cars in my days and owned cars with both low end engines and top end engines.

For me if we would do these top priorities first is

1. Clean up the oceans from all waste.
2. Stop cutting down rain forest for live stock purposes considering the rain forests are our lungs to begin with.
3. Making sure people eating a varying diet like less animal products more green products would make a huge change for the environment. Especially us people in AAA countries where we have a choice.

Least on my list is co2 due to co2 to be fair they still have a hard time linking our co2 impact to the environment the earth is rather old so we have had quite different chemical balances through earths lifetime.

But the first 3 you can't ignore those are some of the biggest problems that needs solving. And people still refuse to stop throwing out garbage & waste out in nature and i mean all people not just one specific country, people still eat so much dairy products and meat linking the number 2-3 together all this causing way more harm in my opinion then the co2 even though dairy/meat industry is one of the biggest polluters out there.

Just maybe if people would have fixed 1,2,3 we wouldn't see this ginormous push on the automotive industry we are seeing today.

And there it is the simple reason of all people being all about yeah i can do whatever i wan't and no one can tell me not to and now this is the result of it.

When the bigger part of the people pushing governments in to action then the rest of the enthusiastic who likes cars for enjoyment gets punished.
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      06-26-2019, 02:17 AM   #2008
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I love when Europeans tell everybody that ICE will be regulated out of existence. Maybe in your country of like what 12 million people they will. Not gonna happen in the US which is a country of 330 million.

I'm prepared to leave the German brands in the dust when the time comes and go American Muscle. By the look of things Porsche is gonna be the only brand left in a few years worth a damn anyway.
Then do so leave the german brands if you don't like, but even the american brands will be sooner or later forced to do the same choice.

the US is not the only market for the automakers of america. If ford suddenly decides well there is more profit in going EV then having none EV cars being sold in the US because lets say 330 million people wants ICE engines they will still offer EV more then ICE vehicles so its gonna happen either way. Although it might not be only EV it might be some other form of propellent that drives the car forward.

You got to see the bigger picture in it if the market dictates ICE engines are less profitable then Ev, or some other alternative. Then there is no point in continuing doing ICe engines just because a certain group of people dislikes that choice a company follows the money and the money is no longer in ICE vehicles.
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      06-26-2019, 02:33 AM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I love when Europeans tell everybody that ICE will be regulated out of existence. Maybe in your country of like what 12 million people they will. Not gonna happen in the US which is a country of 330 million.

I'm prepared to leave the German brands in the dust when the time comes and go American Muscle. By the look of things Porsche is gonna be the only brand left in a few years worth a damn anyway.
Then do so leave the german brands if you don't like, but even the american brands will be sooner or later forced to do the same choice.

the US is not the only market for the automakers of america. If ford suddenly decides well there is more profit in going EV then having none EV cars being sold in the US because lets say 330 million people wants ICE engines they will still offer EV more then ICE vehicles so its gonna happen either way. Although it might not be only EV it might be some other form of propellent that drives the car forward.

You got to see the bigger picture in it if the market dictates ICE engines are less profitable then Ev, or some other alternative. Then there is no point in continuing doing ICe engines just because a certain group of people dislikes that choice a company follows the money and the money is no longer in ICE vehicles.
I just shake my head at you Europeans. So much brainwashing. Loving traveling to Europe but glad I live in the good ole USA.

ICE will not be gone in the USA for many many years. Period

Even if we elected every crazy liberal politician we could (like you do in Europe) they would still be unable to regulate ICE out of existence. It's not gonna happen. Big rigs, SUVs, truckers, etc etc.... people that "drive" these vehicles are not/can not gonna give up their ICE vehicles easily.

This is why the US is great. We have CHOICES.
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      06-26-2019, 02:34 AM   #2010
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I love when Europeans tell everybody that ICE will be regulated out of existence. Maybe in your country of like what 12 million people they will. Not gonna happen in the US which is a country of 330 million.

I'm prepared to leave the German brands in the dust when the time comes and go American Muscle. By the look of things Porsche is gonna be the only brand left in a few years worth a damn anyway.
Then do so leave the german brands if you don't like, but even the american brands will be sooner or later forced to do the same choice.

the US is not the only market for the automakers of america. If ford suddenly decides well there is more profit in going EV then having none EV cars being sold in the US because lets say 330 million people wants ICE engines they will still offer EV more then ICE vehicles so its gonna happen either way. Although it might not be only EV it might be some other form of propellent that drives the car forward.

You got to see the bigger picture in it if the market dictates ICE engines are less profitable then Ev, or some other alternative. Then there is no point in continuing doing ICe engines just because a certain group of people dislikes that choice a company follows the money and the money is no longer in ICE vehicles.
I am buying a z4 fairly soon (no not an m or even m performance but still a ICE car) because I want to enjoy it while it lasts.

I just feel like it will never feel the same when we're all basically in wheeled electronic sensor pods that makes no noise. Enjoy your electric motorless cars while you still can, it'll be a blink of an eye and everything new and high end will be some mega golf cart
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      06-26-2019, 03:07 AM   #2011
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Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
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      06-26-2019, 03:10 AM   #2012
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
What's the population of Sweden? 10 million? We have more then that in the New York Metro area alone
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      06-26-2019, 03:21 AM   #2013
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
What's the population of Sweden? 10 million? We have more then that in the New York Metro area alone
Yes. 10M. A pretty small population in a country the size of California.

My point is that I see at least 20 T3 a day. They sell 3 times more Tesla 3 than BMW 3-Series.
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      06-26-2019, 03:34 AM   #2014
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
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Originally Posted by sward View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
What's the population of Sweden? 10 million? We have more then that in the New York Metro area alone
Yes. 10M. A pretty small population in a country the size of California.

My point is that I see at least 20 T3 a day. They sell 3 times more Tesla 3 than BMW 3-Series.
They may sell three times more, in Sweden maybe.

But Tesla is not outselling MB nor BMW in any of the most populated countries in the world. You are not comparing apples to apples.
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      06-26-2019, 04:36 AM   #2015
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Well the elephant in the room is China, it's going EV pretty rapidly, BMW (or any manufacturer) will not ignore that market (even if you end up with a somewhat divide system of lots of Chinese market only vehicle).
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      06-26-2019, 04:51 AM   #2016
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On a combined cycle basis electric is certainly not as "clean", but I can't see it being dirtier.

From a pure better utility point of view (ignore the fun part) once battery technology gets there hard to argue against less moving parts, instant torque etc.

On the electric generation front, even if it's generated by fossil fuel, a generator running at optimal rpm most of the time is still more efficient vs million of ICE engine running on fossil fuel with RPM up and down (same goes with capturing/purifying anything from exhaust on million of vehicle vs a power station)

The unknown part (to me at least) is how dirty is making batteries (and with new battery technology come in up in mind)
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      06-26-2019, 04:54 AM   #2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
I live in NYC, most garage is crap with regard to charging otherwise I might have bought Tesla instead 540...

I really look forward when BMW can deliver 600hp with 3700 lb...

Electric vehicle instant torque is addicting, can't see how combustion engine can compete in the long run, I understand how everyone talk about emotional attachment but just imagine the day when you're always the last to be off the line on traffic light and always slowest to merge on the highway...
Bring that Tesla in Canada, jump in it in Calgary and go through The Rockies. All ICE vehicles will pass you slow while you are waiting for the grizly bear to bring you a bucket of power...
Oh, did I mentioned -40 C (or F), the “ideal” environment for your vehicle which will short your distance by half?
And This is without heating and your fan on. And BTW, do not listen that AC DC tune too loud... Better turn the radio off, we need the battery!
You mean battery tech is not there yet in cold weather, yea, but would it still be the case in the long run (or not even that long, two decades?)
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      06-26-2019, 06:20 AM   #2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sward View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
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Originally Posted by sward View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
What's the population of Sweden? 10 million? We have more then that in the New York Metro area alone
Yes. 10M. A pretty small population in a country the size of California.

My point is that I see at least 20 T3 a day. They sell 3 times more Tesla 3 than BMW 3-Series.
And my point is that you do not have many people in your country and your being FORCED by your ridiculous government to switch to EV.

So of course you see more Tesla's.

In this country with 30 times the amount of citizens and FREEDOM we barely see any Golf Carts (Tesla's).
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      06-26-2019, 07:19 AM   #2019
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@RonJeremy

See.. the end is not that near ..
Well, let put the ICE vs EV debate where the numbers says it all.

This is the numbers from another German maker, but the numbers is true for the industry.

E-tron/Q7
Assembly hours: 11 vs 33
Parts: 2500 / above 25.000
Moving parts: 70-90 / 2500
Energy efficient: 90% vs 30'ish
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      06-26-2019, 07:29 AM   #2020
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
There aren't that many here in LA either. I see a fair amount of Tesla's, but the numbers aren't anything close to a 3 Series or C Class.
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-rivals-europe

Also outselling then in North America as well.

Search for yourself.
That article is about EUROPE. You also need to read the fine details.
Same in North America.

Tesla just got to Europe recently.

Search away if you don't believe me.
Check your facts, we've had (Norway) the roadster since 2011 and the Model S since 2013. And here BMW 3 series are about 8** units a month, model 3 is 2/3 times that.
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      06-26-2019, 07:33 AM   #2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
Well, let put the ICE vs EV debate where the numbers says it all.

This is the numbers from another German maker, but the numbers is true for the industry.

E-tron/Q7
Assembly hours: 11 vs 33
Parts: 2500 / above 25.000
Moving parts: 70-90 / 2500
Energy efficient: 90% vs 30'ish
Plus I imagine less maintenance ie oil changes, valve adjustments, water pumps, timing chains etc.


As for timing and milestones - this past April was the first month EVER in HISTORY that renewable energy production surpassed coal power production in the USA per Bloomberg. So plug ur PHEV into a solar and wind powered grid or if at night plug into your Tesla battery wall that was charged by the solar panels on your roof during the day.
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      06-26-2019, 08:29 AM   #2022
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For me if we would do these top priorities first is

1. Clean up the oceans from all waste.
2. Stop cutting down rain forest for live stock purposes considering the rain forests are our lungs to begin with.
3. Making sure people eat a varying diet like less animal products more green products would make a huge change for the environment. Especially us people in AAA countries where we have a choice.
1. Sure. Who's responsible for paying for that? Surely the countries responsible. Good luck retrieving those funds.

2. How do you suppose this would happen? That's a sovereign country. What's the enforcement mechanism to make them obey your wishes?

3. This is the scary one every person wishing to be free from an oppressive government should be very cautious of. This person seemingly wants governments to "make sure" people eat the way they want you to! This person appears to see no problem at all with your government instituting such an intrusive regulation that they're "making sure" your eating an approved dinner with your family! Really genuinely sad and a bit scary to see people so willing and quick to forfeit their freedom and liberty to government.
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      06-26-2019, 08:31 AM   #2023
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Not until we move past lithium battery technology and into solid state batteries, I don't see much in terms of wide spread adoption of EVs. 5 minute full charge is a must.
When Tesla Model 3 is outselling BMW 3er, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS combined...

I'd say the writing is all over the wall ‼️
Where is this happening? I don't see many Model 3s on the road and I live in the very populated suburbs of NYC
They do sell a lot in Sweden. I think T3 is the 5th most selling car right now. You pay extremely low tax if your company leases one for you.
What's the population of Sweden? 10 million? We have more then that in the New York Metro area alone
Yes. 10M. A pretty small population in a country the size of California.

My point is that I see at least 20 T3 a day. They sell 3 times more Tesla 3 than BMW 3-Series.
And my point is that you do not have many people in your country and your being FORCED by your ridiculous government to switch to EV.

So of course you see more Tesla's.

In this country with 30 times the amount of citizens and FREEDOM we barely see any Golf Carts (Tesla's).
Forced to, no. But There are no tax on EV, hybrids are also benefited. So ICE cost the same, but hybrid and EV are selling more than 50% here in Norway. And yes, we are a small country, but have huge resources, besides we also have a industry that's one of the leading into solar tech and hydrogen. US are big, but slow, and are falling behind. Besides you guys are " only" 330m, China is 1.3 billion, they are driving this industry now, and everyone and everthing is making moves after what this marked wants, and that is EV.
You guys can either jump on board, or look at
The train leave the station.
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      06-26-2019, 08:48 AM   #2024
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Well, let put the ICE vs EV debate where the numbers says it all.

This is the numbers from another German maker, but the numbers is true for the industry.

E-tron/Q7
Assembly hours: 11 vs 33
Parts: 2500 / above 25.000
Moving parts: 70-90 / 2500
Energy efficient: 90% vs 30'ish
Sounds like a subject change ....

I made a simple statement about the end of ICE at BMW (not other manufacturers ) that directly body slams your "chicken little " postings that ICE is dead at BMW.

You can tell me about trends all day long but that is not the point I made and is changing the subject to one that supports you.

If 15 years ago you posted that DCT would wipe out 6 MT in 5 years you would simply be wrong. No need to start a discussion about take rates , or how long it takes to build one transmission vs the other , which one is *faster* , etc.

Simply stated. The end of ICE at BMW is well over a decade away. EVs are coming. They may well indeed be " superior " but they aren't taking over the world tomorrow, and they won't be taking over the U.S. for a long while. This country couldn't adopt an HDTV standard and keep to a set timetable. The end of ICE production for this market will not happen for decades.
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