The Airplane Thread

[Llarry]

The United States finds itself in a bit of a pickle, with an inadequate industrial base to support the production of needed defense products. Now you could also argue that we don't need all those defense items, such as ships, aircraft, etc. But recent events have shown that world peace does not appear to be at hand. Perhaps a robust defense industry is important given the perils around the world -- and the U.S. position as an important arsenal for the free world.

Here's a graphic that helps explain how we got here: During the last two decades of last century, there was a dramatic shift in the defense industry, with mergers and acquisitions. That shift resonates today.

[Llarry]

Readers of the airplane thread may have noticed a distinct difference between World War II aircraft of the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) and those of the U.S. Navy based aboard aircraft carriers. The senior leadership in the carrier task forces frowned upon nose art, whereas many USAAF airplanes had elaborate nose art.

There was one exception to the Navy rule for a few months in 1944. Fighting 27, an F6F Hellcat squadron based upon the small carrier USS Princeton (CVL 23) sported a large sharkmouth (catmouth?) and eyes on their Hellcats' engine cowlings. Unfortunately, the Princeton was sunk by Japanese aircraft during the battle of Leyte Gulf in October of 1944, ending VF-27's combat tour. They returned on a new carrier in the summer of 1945 for the final months of the war but no longer used their colorful markings.

[chassis]

Today's conveyance.

A330-200

[3798j]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

This picture got me searching: https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...postcount=1079


Bristol Type 170 Superfreighter Mk 32.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Freighter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Superfreighter#

Here's a few more...

[Llarry]

I've made quite a few posts about the carrier war in the Pacific in World War II but haven't really covered the Japanese side very well. The Imperial Japanese Navy was arguably the most skilled and competent such force in carrier aviation in late 1941 and early 1942. But two carrier versus carrier battles in mid-1942 decimated that force and the IJN lost five precious aircraft carriers in those battles. They never really recovered.

In any event, let me introduce the Japanese navy carrier aircraft of World War II.

The most numerous carrier aircraft of the war was the Mitsubishi A6M Reisen Type Zero (Allied nickname Zeke) carrier fighter (photos 1 & 2). The Zero had an excellent climb rate and outstanding range and spectacular low-speed maneuverability for dogfighting. Several of these qualities were due to its very light weight and resultant low wing loading. But that light weight came at a terrible cost: The Zero did not have bullet-resistant self-sealing fuel tanks and thus easily caught fire if hit. In addition, the control forces became excessively heavy at higher speeds, limiting maneuverability. The final strike against the Zero was that the fighter of 1945 was largely the same as that of 1941. Whereas the Americans replaced early fighters (the F2A and F4F) with greatly improved models (the F6F and later the F4U), the Japanese were slow to develop an improved, higher-performance carrier fighter. The intended successor to the A6M Zero was the A7M Reppu (Allied Sam) (photo #3), of which only 10 had been built by the end of the war in 1945. That forced the outclassed Zero to oppose much faster, heavily armed and heavily armored USN fighters for most of the war.

An additional factor was the quality of the pilots. The Japanese navy had some of the best-trained carrier pilots in the world in 1941; they were the products of a long and arduous training pipeline. When there were the inevitable casualties, the Japanese could not produce replacements in the required numbers. Late in the war, Japanese pilots of all types were generally unskilled, ill-trained and easy meat for Allied fighter pilots.

The Japanese navy did a bit better at updating their torpedo bombers. They started the war with the Nakajima B5N (Allied Kate) torpedo bombers (photo #4); these proved deadly at Pearl Harbor and in the early carrier battles. The successor bomber, the Nakajima B6N Tenzan (Allied Jill) (photo #5) suffered prolonged teething troubles, but over 1,000 were built by war's end. Yet another generation of torpedo bomber, the Aichi B7A Ryusei (Allied Grace) (photo #6) flew in 1942 and had good performance, but only a bit over 100 were produced by the end of the war.

The Japanese difficulties in aircraft production were matched by a lack of aircraft carriers; the Japanese navy never really caught back up after the bloody battles of 1942. Many carrier aircraft operated from land bases as the Allies advanced towards the Japanese homeland.

The next category of Japanese navy carrier aircraft had no counterpart in the U.S. Navy: Reconnaissance aircraft. There was really only one aircraft used in this specialized role and that was the Nakajima C6N Saiun (Allied Myrt) (Photo #7). The C6N had excellent performance and even in late 1944 with USN carriers ranging freely in the mid-Pacific, C6Ns flew daring recon missions over U.S. bases in the Mariana Islands.

The final category of carrier aircraft was the dive bombers; Like their USN counterparts, these proved deadly and accounted for many Allied ships. In 1941, the standard dive bomber was the Aichi D3A (Allied Val) (photo #8) with its distinctive fixed landing gear. Despite early successes, the Japanese recognized the obsolescence of the type and were working on a replacement before the war started. The Yokosuka D4Y Suisei (Allied Judy) (photo #9) was unusual in using a license-built Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 liquid-cooled engine. The D4Y had good speed and range and was also used in the reconnaissance role until the C6N appeared. Maintenance issues with the V-12s led to the development of an air-cooled radial variant of the D4Y (photo #10) which was produced in greater numbers until 1945.

Many of these aircraft of all types were expended in suicide attacks against the Allied forces in late 1944 until the end of the war.

The yellow-painted inner wing leading edge was an identification device, much like the D-Day stripes used by the Allies in Europe in 1944.

[Lady Jane]

My dad loved that airplane although it was very unforgiving. It could deplete its tanks in 17 minutes on afterburners.

Even Chuck Yeager had problems:

[3798j]

The "All American"...

http://users.usachoice.net/~american...a/B17STORY.htm

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by 3798j

The "All American"...

Iconic. And proof that miracles can happen.

[vreihen16]

They don't build 'em like that any more.....

[Llarry]

The S. Korean aircraft industry is on a roll: They now have six prototype KF-21 Generation 4.5 advanced fighter prototypes flying, with plans for production. Unlike the F-35, the KF-21 does not have internal weapons bays for maximum stealth but is otherwise quite advanced. It is powered by two license-built F414 afterburning turbofans (as in the F-18 Super Hornet) and should be operational later this decade. Indonesia has also made a modest investment in the development of the KF-21.

The KF-21 differs from many advanced-technology combat fighters in having a version with two crew members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KF-21_Boramae

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The S. Korean aircraft industry is on a roll: They now have six prototype KF-21 Generation 4.5 advanced fighter prototypes flying, with plans for production.

If the F22 and F35 had a baby.

[3798j]

Boeing 377 Stratocruiser...luxury flight in the '50's....

https://simpleflying.com/was-boeing-...-a-good-plane/

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

They don't build 'em like that any more.....

They didn't build them like that then, either.

IIRC, it took less than four days for a completed B-17 to roll off the production line; and it was only built to operate for roughly 25 missions.

Kind of amazing that they're still (well, they were until the latest FAA AD grounded them) in the air 80+ years later.

R.

[Llarry]

Sorry I'm late, boss; I was stuck in traffic behind a B-52 bomber.

[Llarry]

The largest air vehicle to ever fly was the German Hindenburg of the 1930s, although its life was short. Here's a shot of the 803-foot-long airship in its hangar. Note the size of that prop!

[3798j]

staying with traffic stoppers...

[chassis]

The ride home.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Sitting at the airport waiting on my flight home. The gate next to me gave a chuckle…

On a very serious note (no LOL): related to the mass murder attempt of yesterday by a deranged off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot (seated in the jump seat) on Horizon Air flight 2059 from Everett to San Francisco ?

"Alaska Airlines Pilot Charged With 83 Counts of Attempted Murder After He Tried to Shut Down Engines While Off-Duty in Cockpit"
https://themessenger.com/business/pi...t-down-engines

"Off-duty Alaska Air pilot tries to shut off engines on Everett flight, airline says"
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-from-everett/

Audio from 10:58 onwards:
https://archive.liveatc.net/kpdx/KPD...2023-0100Z.mp3

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by Artemis

On a very serious note (no LOL): related to the mass murder attempt of yesterday by a deranged off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot (seated in the jump seat) on Horizon Air flight 2059 from Everett to San Francisco ?

"Alaska Airlines Pilot Charged With 83 Counts of Attempted Murder After He Tried to Shut Down Engines While Off-Duty in Cockpit"
https://themessenger.com/business/pi...t-down-engines

"Off-duty Alaska Air pilot tries to shut off engines on Everett flight, airline says"
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-from-everett/

Audio from 10:58 onwards:
https://archive.liveatc.net/kpdx/KPD...2023-0100Z.mp3

Scary stuff man. Glad they’re all ok, and that it wasn’t my plane!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Scary stuff man. Glad they’re all ok, and that it wasn’t my plane!

Glad that the crew managed to neutralize the lunatic.

Horrible memories about the co-pilot lunatic who murdered everyone on board the Germanwings flight 9525 from Barcelona to Düsseldorf in 2015:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Glad that the crew managed to neutralize the lunatic.

Horrible memories about the co-pilot lunatic who murdered everyone on board the Germanwings flight 9525 from Barcelona to Düsseldorf in 2015:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Indeed. Horrible!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Indeed. Horrible!

As soon as I heard the news tonight and noticed that it involved Alaska Airlines, your picture popped up in my head straightaway. The incident happened the same day as your flight.