Nürburgring aka 'Green Hell' (visiting) advice and footage

[M5Rick]

Just in.
Here is some footage of the aftermath of the M4 crash with Misha and Anton who owns the car. They were both extremely lucky to walk away, owing to the strength of the full M BMW, seing the wreck of the M4 caused by a frozen brake pedal which after hitting the armco launched it upwards.

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Just in.
Here is some footage of the aftermath of the M4 crash with Misha and the Pole who owns the Warsaw registered car. They were both extremely lucky to walk away, owing to the strength of the BMW, seing the wreck of the M4 caused by a frozen brake pedal which after hitting the armco launched it upwards.

There was nothing wrong with that car, he rowed back on his initial claim of brake failure. The brake pedal was hard because the ABS/ESP was operating. It shows his total lack of mechanical knowledge or understanding that he did not recognise this. He went through the compression too fast and the car likley bottomed out (IMO). He started braking hard as the suspension rebounded and the tyres were unloaded, hence the ABS activation.

I was there when the accident happened, the track was closed for 90 minutes while repairs were made. When the track reopened, they were still repairing the barrier, that section was under yellows.

Why people still let him drive their cars is beyond me. He had 8-10 crashes last season alone, that puts his crash rate between every 50 and 75 laps. Would you let someone drive your car if he had a 1 in 50 chance of crashing it?

It's also very telling that he needs a gofundme to fix the car. He has no insurance and cannot afford to fix it himself. I hope poeple dont contribute to the gofundme, they are enabling this sort of behavior.

[helmet91]

8-10 crashes last season?

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by helmet91

8-10 crashes last season?

Yep, he crashed the 330i race car 3 times on one weekend!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by kevinm03

There was nothing wrong with that car, he rowed back on his initial claim of brake failure. The brake pedal was hard because the ABS/ESP was operating. It shows his total lack of mechanical knowledge or understanding that he did not recognise this. He went through the compression too fast and the car likley bottomed out (IMO). He started braking hard as the suspension rebounded and the tyres were unloaded, hence the ABS activation.

I was there when the accident happened, the track was closed for 90 minutes while repairs were made. When the track reopened, they were still repairing the barrier, that section was under yellows.

Why people still let him drive their cars is beyond me. He had 8-10 crashes last season alone, that puts his crash rate between every 50 and 75 laps. Would you let someone drive your car if he had a 1 in 50 chance of crashing it?

It's also very telling that he needs a gofundme to fix the car. He has no insurance and cannot afford to fix it himself. I hope poeple dont contribute to the gofundme, they are enabling this sort of behavior.

No way as I'm sure you wouldn't. The owner didn't seem to mind too much and was looking forward to the rebuild with a race dash replacing the standard one together with the likely undamaged engine/gearbox . Accidents happen for whatever reason and I say good luck to the go fund me contributors if they want to part fund the rebuild.

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

No way as I'm sure you wouldn't. The owner didn't seem to mind too much and was looking forward to the rebuild with a race dash replacing the standard one together with the likely undamaged engine/gearbox . Accidents happen for whatever reason and I say good luck to the go fund me contributors if they want to part fund the rebuild.

What could the owner say? He has to play ball to get his car replaced.

There is a big thread on the Nurburgrng Life facebook group where people far more experienced than me explain what he did wrong (including a guy that calibrates abs systems for a living)

[helmet91]

Originally Posted by kevinm03

Yep, he crashed the 330i race car 3 times on one weekend!

I’m not sure what VLN/NLS/RCN in an actual race car has to do with TF?

The only TF crash last year that was published was the GT86 suspension failure… what others were there?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by kevinm03

What could the owner say? He has to play ball to get his car replaced.

There is a big thread on the Nurburgrng Life facebook group where people far more experienced than me explain what he did wrong (including a guy that calibrates abs systems for a living)

There are track experts of course who comment, the bumps and undulations in certain places on the track at the 'Ring can catch people out and even the cars themselves can have a glitch moment when seemingly working fine.
Misha gives more details on his side of the crash and flip and all the other things.

[M5Rick]

''I do that lap time in a van'' The Queen of the 'Ring made Clarkson cry.

[fs1977]

Originally Posted by helmet91

I’m not sure what VLN/NLS/RCN in an actual race car has to do with TF?

The only TF crash last year that was published was the GT86 suspension failure… what others were there?

Nothing to do wit TF, but some relation to his driving skills

On that note, last NLS race he missed a yellow flag/code 60. Endresult: 1 rear ended Aston Martin and license suspended for the following race

To be honest, I'm not a real Misha hater or something. Just liked his content better a few years ago. And I disagree with the opinion that he is a very talented driver. I think he has some skill, but nothing exceptional.

[M5Rick]

I think Misha throws caution to the winds at times but that's his agenda ? to get the maximum out of any car he tests and that carries risk. Observe the main signs at any motor race circuit (in GB anyway) which warns motor racing is dangerous.

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I think Misha throws caution to the winds at times but that's his agenda ? to get the maximum out of any car he tests and that carries risk. Observe the main signs at any motor race circuit (in GB anyway) which warns motor racing is dangerous.

True, but TF is tourist driving, it's officially a public road. You should be driving with a larger margin for error than on a trackday. He got flamed last year for posting a video of himself overtaking someone on the grass at Ex-Muhle.

Originally Posted by helmet91

I’m not sure what VLN/NLS/RCN in an actual race car has to do with TF?

The only TF crash last year that was published was the GT86 suspension failure… what others were there?

That was not a suspension failure, just like the G82 wanst a brake failure. He ran wide at Brunchen onto the dirt/marbles and understeered into the barrier.

I dont keep track of his crashes, but he crashed the 330i at the following race too. I was given the figure by a local.

There are so many people backing Misha up online, most have never been within 1000km of the nurburgring, their only exposure to the place is through his videos. The locals are genuinly scared that he'll crash into them some day.

To steer this thread away from Misha bashing, here's a video of a 3 lap stint I did at a trackday on Friday. The car is brand new to me, it was my first time out in it since some big changes were made to it. I wasnt pushing hard, didnt use any kerbs etc. I am still playing with tyre pressures.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by kevinm03

True, but TF is tourist driving, it's officially a public road. You should be driving with a larger margin for error than on a trackday. He got flamed last year for posting a video of himself overtaking someone on the grass at Ex-Muhle.



That was not a suspension failure, just like the G82 wanst a brake failure. He ran wide at Brunchen onto the dirt/marbles and understeered into the barrier.

I dont keep track of his crashes, but he crashed the 330i at the following race too. I was given the figure by a local.

There are so many people backing Misha up online, most have never been within 1000km of the nurburgring, their only exposure to the place is through his videos. The locals are genuinly scared that he'll crash into them some day.

To steer this thread away from Misha bashing, here's a video of a 3 lap stint I did at a trackday on Friday. The car is brand new to me, it was my first time out in it since some big changes were made to it. I wasnt pushing hard, didnt use any kerbs etc. I am still playing with tyre pressures.

I haven't been to the 'Ring myself but have passed by it a few miles apart on motoring trips to Poland with no time to stop off by because of time constraints from the 900 odd mile trip 4 up in the car.
First thoughts are you are a fast safe driver compared to Misha who with his accident record shows he tries too hard at times and has already admitted he came close to ending his life on one occasion, it's in his blood to drive on the edge living and working at the 'Ring.

[fs1977]

Some clean yet fast laps. I love it! Trackdays are a far better way to test the limits of the car than TF.

[M5Rick]

Big rear wings are not just for show at the track and proven by Misha in a lightened and modified M2 to give more RWD traction sure-footedness with much quicker lap times.

Naturally the rear wing needs to be balanced with a front splitter and appropriate suspension set up to get the maximum out of the car.

[M5Rick]

Might as well put on more about this special GT3 Motorsport spec wing which has been TUV approved (!) and street legal in GB. It's available with a strengthening brace underneath the boot and can be sat on.

DRS system available too apparently.

[fs1977]

New safety system is in operation as of today. 100 camera's and new installed LED-panels around the whole track. They show yellow warning signs in case of collissions or danger zones. This is a big step in safety for TF and trackday's.



Facebook post in German: https://www.facebook.com/nuerburgrin...yqBLxdQSMAUDcl

[helmet91]

Hopefully the Brits know what the yellow flashy things mean…. And actually follow them.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by helmet91

Hopefully the Brits know what the yellow flashy things mean…. And actually follow them.

More likely a Gaul with the way they drive their Peugeots.

[M5Rick]

Sad tale of how an Alfa 4C with carbon fibre chassis crashed on the 'Ring.

? Axe hanging on the coat hook ?

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Sad tale of how an Alfa 4C with carbon fibre chassis crashed on the 'Ring.

Sad to see such a beautiful car getting written off, but super common.

He obviously had little to no track experience (his lines, driving with ESP on). He was pushing on his first lap He went into the corner too fast, lifted off and got lift-off oversteer.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by kevinm03

Sad to see such a beautiful car getting written off, but super common.

He obviously had little to no track experience (his lines, driving with ESP on). He was pushing on his first lap He went into the corner too fast, lifted off and got lift-off oversteer.

As you say an inexperienced punter who foolishly went to the 'Ring aiming to sell the car after (why did he buy it in the first place) without even taking any form of track performance courses and with a pocket rocket like that you need lightning quick steering reaction corrections.