The Airplane Thread

[T0RM3NT]

Anyone know of this beauty? I was very close to being the SATCOM operator on it in 1992.



FYSA: https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...e/104503/e-4b/

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Llarry

.....another photo of an F-35B using the probe and drogue method.

Big picture?

USAF aircraft use the boom.

Navy/Marine aircraft use the drogue.

The KC-10 *can* do it both ways-- there's a retractable drogue to the right (looking forward) athwart the boom-- you can do one or the other, but not both at the same time. They can put also detachable pods on the outboard portion of the wing that allow for two additional retractable drogues-- so you could do two drogues and one boom or three drogues on a drag. Crews hate the pods though as they kill your range and are noisy as hell.

The KC-135 is primarily a boom refueler..... but you *can* retrofit the boom with a drogue-- but its an all-day job. Then its either/or-- single boom or drogue.

No clue on the KC-46-- I retired before the C-5 was certified for refuel on it.

R.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by T0RM3NT

Anyone know of this beauty? I was very close to being the SATCOM operator on it in 1992.

Attachment 3227761

FYSA: https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...e/104503/e-4b/

Speaking of old airplanes, the E-4 is getting old and in need of replacement, too. The USAF just needs to find some late-model B747-800s with low time airframes baking in the sun in the California desert; it's not like they need a bunch of them. Or maybe down-size the electronics components if they can and squeeze everything into a C-46 or even a C-40?

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by T0RM3NT

... close...

As you probably know, "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades

[T0RM3NT]

Oh, so true, so true. The vetting that goes into a position on that plane is pretty intense. You have to absolutely check all the boxes for a shot.

[JJ 911SC]

It reminded me that back in the late 80's, I was peged to be posted to Hamburg to work on the NATO Frigate Replacement project (NFR-90).

They payed me to learn German but in the earlier 90's, Leider wurde das Projekt abgebrochen

[M_Six]

If I were uber-rich...

Always loved this design. Classic.

https://helitrader.com/for-sale/heli...opters-md500c/

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by M_Six

If I were uber-rich...

Always loved this design. Classic.

Yep -- the "Loach" (LOH = Light Observation Helicopter) of Vietnam etc. fame.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by M_Six

If I were uber-rich...

Always loved this design. Classic.

https://helitrader.com/for-sale/heli...opters-md500c/

I believe a camouflaged MD500 was used by the baddie in Blue Thunder film.

[Llarry]

The UK Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm favored two-seaters for carrier fighters for some years. The difficulties of open-ocean navigation led to their decision to incorporate both a pilot and an observer in carrier fighters. The U.S. Navy only bought a single two-seat fighter, the Grumman FF-1, in the early 1930s and then reverted to the single-seat format.

The last of the RN FAA's piston-engine two-seat fighters was the Fairey Firefly, conceived in 1939 and first flown in late 1941. The Firefly was heavily armed, with four 20mm cannon, and could carry two thousand-pound bombs, making it a capable strike fighter. Power came from the excellent Rolls-Royce Griffon liquid-cooled V-12 engine, which was essentially a modernized Merlin (of Spitfire, P-51 Mustang, etc., fame) that had been enlarged to 2,239 cubic inches. The larger, more powerful Griffon made up, to a certain extent, for the heavier and larger aircraft that it powered. Nevertheless, the Firefly lacked the performance of its single-seat fighter contemporaries such as the Seafire (navalized Spitfire), Hellcat, Corsair or (later post-war) Sea Fury.

The Firefly entered combat in 1944. It served in World War II against both Germany and Japan. The observer became a radar operator in night fighter variants.

The last RN FAA variant, the FR.5, finally adopted power wing-folding, replacing an awkward and manpower-intensive folding procedure on the earlier variants.

Post-war, Australia, Canada and the Netherlands operated Firefly strike fighters from aircraft carriers. Both the UK and Australia operated Fireflies in combat during the Korean conflict.

The final operational use of the Firefly was in the carrier-based antisubmarine role by the FAA and the Royal Canadian Navy.

Quite a few other nations acquired used Fireflies as the aircraft became obsolescent in the jet age. In the Commonwealth countries, Fireflies were modified for training, target-towing and other utility duties before being finally retired in the 1950s.

https://en/wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Firefly

[Llarry]

The last UK Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm piston engine fighter aircraft was the Hawker Sea Fury, developed by Hawker during World War II as a higher-performance development of the Hawker Tempest. Near the end of the war, the Royal Air Force cancelled procurement of the original Fury, as they had plenty of late-model fighters on hand. The Royal Navy, on the other hand, desired to buy the navalized Sea Fury variant to replace Seafires and Corsairs.

The Sea Fury, powered by a Bristol Centaurus 18-cylinder radial engine driving a 5-blade propellor, was an excellent performer. It was adopted by the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Australian Navy and the Royal Netherlands Navy as well and served well on aircraft carrier duty until replaced by jet fighters in the 1950s.

As with other more modern piston engine combat aircraft, a number of Sea Furies found their way into other countries' air forces in the 1950s.

The Sea Fury is a real contender in modern unlimited air racing. Difficulties in find parts for the 3,270 cubic inch Bristol Centaurus radial have led to some surviving aircraft being re-engined with American Wright R-3350 radials or even the monster Pratt & Whitney 28-cylinder R-4360.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Sea_Fury

[Llarry]

Seemingly an anachronism, the Fairey Swordfish nonetheless made a very substantial contribution to the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm mission during World War II. Despite its open-cockpit, biplane, fixed landing gear appearance and relatively low performance, it proved deadly in the war, sinking 14 German U-boats among other accomplishments. It was used by not only the FAA, but also the RAF, RCAF and the Netherlands.

The Swordfish, dubbed "Stringbag" in recognition of its antique appearance, entered service in 1936. Despite several efforts to develop a replacement, it remained in production and service for almost the entirety of World War II. It could not only be used as a torpedo plane, but also could be armed with bombs or rockets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Swordfish

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Seemingly an anachronism, the Fairey Swordfish nonetheless made a very substantial contribution to the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm mission during World War II. Despite its open-cockpit biplane, fixed landing gear appearance and relatively low performance, it proved deadly in the war, sinking 14 German U-boats among other accomplishments. It was used by not only the FAA, but also the RAF, RCAF and the Netherlands.

The Swordfish, dubbed "Stringbag" in recognition of its antique appearance, entered service in 1936. Despite several efforts to develop a replacement, it remained in production and service for almost the entirety of World War II. It could not only be used as a torpedo plane, but also could be armed with bombs or rockets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Swordfish

Don't forget John ''Jock'' Moffat getting the bullseye hit on nazi battleship Bismarck's stern, rendering it steerless and a sitting duck for the pursuing Royal Navy.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Don't forget John ''Jock'' Moffat getting the bullseye hit on nazi battleship Bismarck's stern, rendering it steerless and a sitting duck for the pursuing Royal Navy.

And the torpedo attack by carrier-based torpedo planes on the Italian Navy in harbor at Taranto in 1940. Attacks by torpedo planes in shallow harbor waters had been considered impossible before this, but the Swordfish crews pulled it off. Presaging another torpedo plane attack on ships at Pearl Harbor a year later by the Imperial Japanese Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto

The Swordfish was really quite remarkable; slow and antique-appearing but brave RN airmen accomplished heroic feats with it.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Llarry

And the torpedo attack by carrier-based torpedo planes on the Italian Navy in harbor at Taranto in 1940. Attacks by torpedo planes in shallow harbor waters had been considered impossible before this, but the Swordfish crews pulled it off. Presaging another torpedo plane attack on ships at Pearl Harbor a year later by the Imperial Japanese Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto

The Swordfish was really quite remarkable; slow and antique-appearing but brave RN airmen accomplished heroic feats with it.

Ironically that same squadron of Swordfishes which attacked Bismarck were all shot down by Me 109's before they could torpedo the Scharnhorst/Gniesenau battleships together with Prinz Eugen heavy cruiser in the 1942 English Channel dash.

[Llarry]

The world's first turboprop aircraft was a one-off Gloster Meteor jet fighter with modified engines. The two jet engines were modified with a reduction gearbox, a driveshaft and 5-bladed propellors. The resulting Rolls-Royce RB.50 Trent engines produced 750 horsepower each plus 1,250 pounds of thrust from the jet exhaust. The aircraft first flew in September 1945.

[Llarry]

The Royal New Zealand Air Force has replaced its Lockheed P-3CK Orions with four Boeing P-8A Poseidons, with all four P-8s delivered this year.

And the aerial refueling markings just aft of the cockpit visible in this photo sent me on an image search of P-8s; I think they all have the capability to receive fuel via refueling boom. The RNZAF has no tankers with booms, though; neither does the U.S. Navy or many other P-8 operators. I suppose the refueling capability is standard equipment.

[Llarry]

The aerial refueling receptacle on the P-8 got me thinking about other Navy aircraft with a receptacle. I can only think of one: The Boeing E-6B Mercury "doomsday plane". If the E-6B ever had to execute its mission of sending the order to fire ICBMs or submarine-launched ballistic missiles with their nuclear weapons, extended endurance might be absolutely critical; note the refueling markings just above the cockpit on this E-6B photo. I am quite confident that the E-6B replacement, a C-130J variant, will also have a refueling receptacle for similar reasons.

[Llarry]

The Boeing 707 was the commercial aircraft that started the jet revolution. There were earlier jet transports, but the 707 dominated the market during the 1960s and later. In relatively small numbers, it also served military functions.

The 707's origin can be traced to the Boeing 367-80, often referred to as the "Dash 80", which first flew in mid-1954. The 367-80 was developed into two variants which appeared quite similar but were slightly different in their dimensions: These were the Boeing 707 commercial transport and the Boeing 717 Air Force tanker (designated the KC-135).

The 707 revolutionized air travel. Including its slightly smaller cousin the Boeing 720, 1,010 were built from 1957-on. It was used by many airlines in various versions differing in engine used, length, etc. Power came from two different Pratt & Whitney jet engines or Rolls-Royce jet engines. Early versions used turbojets but later aircraft used turbofans for more power and better fuel economy.

Relatively few 707s were built for the military -- in contrast to the C-135 tankers and other variants built for the Air Force in large numbers. The most numerous military variant was the E-3 Sentry AWACS radar plane, which remains in service today. The USAF bought half of the 68 built, with other countries and NATO accounting for the other half. Two other relatively numerous variants were the 17 E-8 Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (JSTARS) aircraft designed to track Soviet and Warsaw Pact ground forces in a ground war in Europe and the Navy's 16 E-6 Mercury TACAMO communications aircraft designed to communicate launch orders to submerged ballistic missile submarines through the use of very low frequency radio messages. A few other military variants included 5 VC-137 presidential transport aircraft and 4 EC-18 missile range instrumentation aircraft with their huge nose radomes.

The 707 ceased commercial operations in 2019. Most of the military versions are on the way out with replacements identified.

[vreihen16]

One of my all-time favorite movie quotes:

"There's one nice thing about the 707... it can do everything but read."

.

[Llarry]

The military ancestor of the Boeing 367-80, the Boeing model 717 or military KC-135A apparently took precedence over the commercial 707 as KC-135s entered service over a year earlier than their airline brethren. 803 KC-135As were built between 1955 and 1965. Their primary design mission was to refuel Strategic Air Command bombers to strike targets in the Soviet bloc, but the -135 spawned a large number of specialty variants. Among these were several reconnaissance versions, airborne command posts and even transports. (I remember riding a C-135B transport in the 1960s across the Pacific Ocean.)

The initial KC-135A tanker was succeeded by several improved tankers. First came the KC-135Q specialized tanker used to refuel the Lockheed SR-71A Blackbird Mach 3+ reconnaissance aircraft. Later the turbojet-powered A model tankers were upgraded with turbofan engines in a couple of different versions. Over 417 earlier models were upgraded to KC-135R versions with considerably more powerful engines and systems upgrades as well. The Rs remain in widespread use today. The 50+ KC-135Qs also got the upgrades and became KC-135Ts; they are still in service as well, although not with the original mission.

Reconnaissance modifications came early-on and the C-135 became the U.S. Air Force's aircraft of choice for several different recon missions. Among them are the RC-135V and RC-135W Rivet Joint electronic recon aircraft and the RC-135S Cobra Ball with its distinctive black-painted right wing. The Rivet Joint was adopted by the UK's Royal Air Force several years ago with the purchase of three aircraft.

EC-135 models were used as airborne command posts. A few -135s were also used as VIP aircraft, although I don't believe any were actually designated VC-135.

There were also a few EC-135 advanced range instrumentation aircraft that, like the 707-based EC-18B, sported large radar nose radomes.

Unlike the 707s, the -135s appear to be destined to serve for quite a few more years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_KC-135

[flybigjet]

If you're going to talk about the 707-- you missed an important part of the story..... the Dash-80 barrel roll over Lake Washington.

It *completely* freaked out everyone watching the test flight and terrified the company president (he fired Tex Johnson about a half-dozen times before he even landed)..... and sold the aircraft type, as nobody watching would have believed a large four-engine jet could actually do something like that.

As the story goes-- when the Boeing president at the time retired, he was given a full-size framed photo of the image below.

..... he left it in his office and didn't take it.

https://www.historylink.org/file/390