C8 Z06......Wow

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Exactly why this car will pull massive amounts of money for a long ass time.

But eventually they will make those Z06's (supposedly!) and then the supply will have increased while demand has decreased. MSRP will increase in future years, moving it closer to $200k for a loaded one. The GT3 and 458 market still has room to move down after their huge run ups. I think you are being incredibly optimistic about the long term value of the car considering the overall used car market starting to decline and interest rates continuing to go up.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

But eventually they will make those Z06's (supposedly!) and then the supply will have increased while demand has decreased. MSRP will increase in future years, moving it closer to $200k for a loaded one. The GT3 and 458 market still has room to move down after their huge run ups. I think you are being incredibly optimistic about the long term value of the car considering the overall used car market starting to decline and interest rates continuing to go up.

They Will eventually make them but they’re already so far behind on the first model year and the 2023 model year debut was actually supposed to be a 2021 model year debut going by previous stingray into z06 transition model years.

I’m not saying the car will cost the same as a veyron but let’s say we’re in the year 2026 right now today. That z06 new base will still fetch for 120k+ and used will still go for 140+.

Everyone is scrambling for their last perfect ICE dream car before we all go into the sunset into ev land.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

They Will eventually make them but they’re already so far behind on the first model year and the 2023 model year debut was actually supposed to be a 2021 model year debut going by previous stingray into z06 transition model years.

I’m not saying the car will cost the same as a veyron but let’s say we’re in the year 2026 right now today. That z06 new base will still fetch for 120k+ and used will still go for 140+.

Everyone is scrambling for their last perfect ICE dream car before we all go into the sunset into ev land.

Ok buddy. I know you're excited but at least be realistic. You think people are going to pay $140k for a used 2023 Z06 in 2026? lol come on man. High revving FPC engines are very mileage sensitive on resale value.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

They Will eventually make them but they're already so far behind on the first model year and the 2023 model year debut was actually supposed to be a 2021 model year debut going by previous stingray into z06 transition model years.

I'm not saying the car will cost the same as a veyron but let's say we're in the year 2026 right now today. That z06 new base will still fetch for 120k+ and used will still go for 140+.

Everyone is scrambling for their last perfect ICE dream car before we all go into the sunset into ev land.

Yawn

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Ok buddy. I know you're excited but at least be realistic. You think people are going to pay $140k for a used 2023 Z06 in 2026? lol come on man. High revving FPC engines are very mileage sensitive on resale value.

I said used z06’s in general.

Meaning it were in 2026, a 2025 could be used.

Also just not long ago used 2020 stingrays we’re going for over 100k for 2LT’s.

Again I want to be proven wrong because I know lots of people here don’t want to admit gm finally made it with this car but I know I won’t be wrong. I’ll stick around on this forum for years to come so I can say I told you so.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I said used z06’s in general.

Meaning it were in 2026, a 2025 could be used.

Also just not long ago used 2020 stingrays we’re going for over 100k for 2LT’s.

Again I want to be proven wrong because I know lots of people here don’t want to admit gm finally made it with this car but I know I won’t be wrong. I’ll stick around on this forum for years to come so I can say I told you so.

If a barely used one year old model is selling for slightly over MSRP that means a 3 year old model with miles would be selling for a good chunk under MSRP. Which means the idiots paying ADM's are going to get fleeced. Earlier in this thread you said they'd be selling for "tens of thousands over MSRP" well into the future.

The last 3 years have not been a "normal" car market. Every new car was selling at or over MSRP, not just the C8. Stupid people were paying $20k over for Kia Tellurides and $30k over for a Ford Bronco, neither of which have anything special about them. How about $100k over for a G Wagon or Hummer EV? lol! Interest rates were 2% for the last 3 years and the economy was red hot too. The next 3 years will be very, very different.

Fools and their money...

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

If a barely used one year old model is selling for slightly over MSRP that means a 3 year old model with miles would be selling for a good chunk under MSRP. Which means the idiots paying ADM's are going to get fleeced. Earlier in this thread you said they'd be selling for "tens of thousands over MSRP" well into the future.

The last 3 years have not been a "normal" car market. Every new car was selling at or over MSRP, not just the C8. Stupid people were paying $20k over for Kia Tellurides and $30k over for a Ford Bronco, neither of which have anything special about them. How about $100k over for a G Wagon or Hummer EV? lol! Interest rates were 2% for the last 3 years and the economy was red hot too. The next 3 years will be very, very different.

Fools and their money...

Yeah, I didn’t say in particular a 2023 model would sell for tens of thousands over msrp but if you wanna talk about that, it will lol.

I am really talking about in general a used z06 will go for tens of thousands over msrp for a long time. Look at the stingray history. This isn’t getting any better. Look at the first model year of the z06 and how limited that was, in production because of the parts.

You’re saying just like magic this time next year or in 2 years this will get all better like pre COVID? I’m sure eventually it’ll improve but this economy isn’t going to do a 180 like nothing ever Happened no where near the next 2 years or so.

You mentioning regular cars over msrp only proves my point because this z06 isn’t a normal car and like I said people will be looking for their forever dream ICE car. And everything about the car as a whole and its performance will def make this car worth a lot in the future.

Trust me on this man.

[dgoldenz]

My brain hurts.

[Cos270]

I think everyone, including the C8 evangelist, is really underestimating how many buyers are going to pull out of the market for 80k plus sports cars in the next 6-12 months. Some people are still living above their means, even in the current unsavory economic climate, but things are only going to get worse. Eventually people are going to put off big purchases and wait, which will let the supply side catch up.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

My brain hurts.

It doesn't have to. We don't always have to agree on everything. That's why these are discussion forums. Where people can discuss their opinions.

What you are saying is yours. What i am saying is mine. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. I strongly believe i'm not wrong and in a couple of years we can revisit this thread and see who was more accurate.

Everything that has happened to corvette since the debut of the C8 has never happened in the past in terms of everything. Every single facet of this whole experience has never been seen or done.

So it's hard to pass judgement based on past history. That's like those idiots on the corvette forum before the z06 debuted saying yeah the C8Z will be 80k, twin turbo, have over 700hp. Or some nonsense like that.

We all know that wasn't going to be the case. What we got is an NA car, with 670hp that MSRP's for 106k. A totally unfamiliar territory we're in. It started with the stingray, and it continues with the z06.

We don't even know what the ERAY will look or be like nor what it would be priced at. Everyone will play the guessing game on that variant and be totally wrong too.

GM has finally "made it" with this C8 generation. Let them shine. Because they still are and will continue to shine until the C9.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It doesn't have to. We don't always have to agree on everything. That's why these are discussion forums. Where people can discuss their opinions.

What you are saying is yours. What i am saying is mine. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. I strongly believe i'm not wrong and in a couple of years we can revisit this thread and see who was more accurate.

Everything that has happened to corvette since the debut of the C8 has never happened in the past in terms of everything. Every single facet of this whole experience has never been seen or done.

So it's hard to pass judgement based on past history. That's like those idiots on the corvette forum before the z06 debuted saying yeah the C8Z will be 80k, twin turbo, have over 700hp. Or some nonsense like that.

We all know that wasn't going to be the case. What we got is an NA car, with 670hp that MSRP's for 106k. A totally unfamiliar territory we're in. It started with the stingray, and it continues with the z06.

We don't even know what the ERAY will look or be like nor what it would be priced at. Everyone will play the guessing game on that variant and be totally wrong too.

GM has finally "made it" with this C8 generation. Let them shine. Because they still are and will continue to shine until the C9.

Yawn

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It doesn't have to. We don't always have to agree on everything. That's why these are discussion forums. Where people can discuss their opinions.

What you are saying is yours. What i am saying is mine. If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. I strongly believe i'm not wrong and in a couple of years we can revisit this thread and see who was more accurate.

Everything that has happened to corvette since the debut of the C8 has never happened in the past in terms of everything. Every single facet of this whole experience has never been seen or done.

So it's hard to pass judgement based on past history. That's like those idiots on the corvette forum before the z06 debuted saying yeah the C8Z will be 80k, twin turbo, have over 700hp. Or some nonsense like that.

We all know that wasn't going to be the case. What we got is an NA car, with 670hp that MSRP's for 106k. A totally unfamiliar territory we're in. It started with the stingray, and it continues with the z06.

We don't even know what the ERAY will look or be like nor what it would be priced at. Everyone will play the guessing game on that variant and be totally wrong too.

GM has finally "made it" with this C8 generation. Let them shine. Because they still are and will continue to shine until the C9.

I think people just laugh because the c8 production began Feb 2020. And the reality is nothing like this has ever happened in the entire car industry since then. So as much as some of us love the vette we just find you a bit over the top especially when you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Kia telluride or Hondas or Nissans have even had ADM mark-up. Nissan one of the worst selling brands, people have paid mark-up.

Reality will come soon.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Mike00

I think people just laugh because the c8 production began Feb 2020. And the reality is nothing like this has ever happened in the entire car industry since then. So as much as some of us love the vette we just find you a bit over the top especially when you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Kia telluride or Hondas or Nissans have even had ADM mark-up. Nissan one of the worst selling brands, people have paid mark-up.

Reality will come soon.

lol as i said. I will be here (even if i get banned i'll come back) and we can revisit this thread in 1-2 year increments and monitor this.

Reality will come soon. But soon is such a generic term in this discussion.

A couple of years from now you WILL see used z06's still pulling for tens of thousands over MSRP.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

lol as i said. I will be here (even if i get banned i'll come back) and we can revisit this thread in 1-2 year increments and monitor this.

Reality will come soon. But soon is such a generic term in this discussion.

A couple of years from now you WILL see used z06's still pulling for tens of thousands over MSRP.

Maybe I expect we either end up with enough inflation or a fair ammount of industry will fall out - or probaly a combination of both.

It’s funny I was looking at some older articles about top cars under $200k. It was only about 5 years ago that you could pick up an R8 with quattro for 170k, a GT3 for 140k etc… Now you are looking at 30-60k more on these cars - and I don’t mean from ADM. Just big changes in costs.

We haven’t really been through a long enough cycle of car loans yet. BUT the combination of higher rates + drastic jumps in MSRP, on all cars, well suffice to say I don’t think Americans will be bale to sustain it. Not when you look at debt levels and income levels.

Time will tell. Not sure if I want it to drop out or not but going to be interesting.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Mike00

Maybe I expect we either end up with enough inflation or a fair ammount of industry will fall out - or probaly a combination of both.

It’s funny I was looking at some older articles about top cars under $200k. It was only about 5 years ago that you could pick up an R8 with quattro for 170k, a GT3 for 140k etc… Now you are looking at 30-60k more on these cars - and I don’t mean from ADM. Just big changes in costs.

We haven’t really been through a long enough cycle of car loans yet. BUT the combination of higher rates + drastic jumps in MSRP, on all cars, well suffice to say I don’t think Americans will be bale to sustain it. Not when you look at debt levels and income levels.

Time will tell. Not sure if I want it to drop out or not but going to be interesting.

Things are going to get worse the start of 2023 you'll see.

People keep thinking what we are facing was the peak and it'll all be over in 2023 and we live happily ever after. It won't. And i said it in this thread, or maybe it was the EV thread that i don't like talking about politics but rest assure what we are facing is something totally different than what we have faced in our lifetime.

The fact the 1st MY production of the z06 has been a shit show and orders filled to the life of the possible production run of this car, is only proof how well, and expensive, this car will do/be for the entire life of it's production. This car could last 5 model years. Maybe even 6 if we're lucky. I won't be surprised if it's only a 4 model year run as GM wants to shift their focus to EV.

The ERAY didn't even debut yet, we don't know anything about it. That variant could steal z06 buyers, or it could force potential z06 buyers who WERE ok to get an ERAY instead and after the ERAY debuts be like, "ehhh i don't really want that, i'll take my chance at a z06 or buy one of them used".

We also live in an era where there are A LOT of rich young car buyers. This isn't the late 90s or 2000s where these cars were only bought by retired old men. Lots of young kids have money these days. Whether they got it from NFT's, or other investments, daddy's money or whatever. They are able to attain these cars far easier than your typical young buyer of the past. And let's not forget the new audience of exotic car owners that want a piece of this z06. Maybe they don't want to track their 720s and want a "cheap" supercar for those duties. They'll pay ADM on a z06, 50-75k over it's nothing for them since it'll still be half or third the price of their other exotics in their garage.

I'll give this thread 2 years. I already bookmarked this.

Let's revisit this thread and discuss this topic in october 2024 and we'll see used 2023 z06's go for 130-140k for 1LZ's used.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Things are going to get worse the start of 2023 you'll see.

People keep thinking what we are facing was the peak and it'll all be over in 2023 and we live happily ever after. It won't. And i said it in this thread, or maybe it was the EV thread that i don't like talking about politics but rest assure what we are facing is something totally different than what we have faced in our lifetime.

The fact the 1st MY production of the z06 has been a shit show and orders filled to the life of the possible production run of this car, is only proof how well, and expensive, this car will do/be for the entire life of it's production. This car could last 5 model years. Maybe even 6 if we're lucky. I won't be surprised if it's only a 4 model year run as GM wants to shift their focus to EV.

The ERAY didn't even debut yet, we don't know anything about it. That variant could steal z06 buyers, or it could force potential z06 buyers who WERE ok to get an ERAY instead and after the ERAY debuts be like, "ehhh i don't really want that, i'll take my chance at a z06 or buy one of them used".

We also live in an era where there are A LOT of rich young car buyers. This isn't the late 90s or 2000s where these cars were only bought by retired old men. Lots of young kids have money these days. Whether they got it from NFT's, or other investments, daddy's money or whatever. They are able to attain these cars far easier than your typical young buyer of the past. And let's not forget the new audience of exotic car owners that want a piece of this z06. Maybe they don't want to track their 720s and want a "cheap" supercar for those duties. They'll pay ADM on a z06, 50-75k over it's nothing for them since it'll still be half or third the price of their other exotics in their garage.

I'll give this thread 2 years. I already bookmarked this.

Let's revisit this thread and discuss this topic in october 2024 and we'll see used 2023 z06's go for 130-140k for 1LZ's used.

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[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Mike00

I think people just laugh because the c8 production began Feb 2020. And the reality is nothing like this has ever happened in the entire car industry since then. So as much as some of us love the vette we just find you a bit over the top especially when you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Kia telluride or Hondas or Nissans have even had ADM mark-up. Nissan one of the worst selling brands, people have paid mark-up.

Reality will come soon.

Reality is here for most brands(excluding Porsche). The big 3 around in my area all have advertised discounts on almost all models. They now have inventory as well, not pre pandemic levels...but getting there. Those Yukon's and Suburban's that dealers had been slapping $20k+ adm's on and selling them before they got off the truck. Now some online brokers have them with 8% off msrp. The market has completely changed and will continue trending down. Will this have any affect on Z06 market, highly doubt it. Z06 production is so constrained and the car has massive hype(for a reason). Will the Z06 have an adm towards the end of its lifecycle, don't think so...but who knows.

[TR930]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Reality is here for most brands(excluding Porsche). The big 3 around in my area all have advertised discounts on almost all models. They now have inventory as well, not pre pandemic levels...but getting there. Those Yukon's and Suburban's that dealers had been slapping $20k+ adm's on and selling them before they got off the truck. Now some online brokers have them with 8% off msrp. The market has completely changed and will continue trending down. Will this have any affect on Z06 market, highly doubt it. Z06 production is so constrained and the car has massive hype(for a reason). Will the Z06 have an adm towards the end of its lifecycle, don't think so...but who knows.

How many people on that waiting list originally planned to use a HELOC to buy their Zo6?

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Reality is here for most brands(excluding Porsche). The big 3 around in my area all have advertised discounts on almost all models. They now have inventory as well, not pre pandemic levels...but getting there. Those Yukon's and Suburban's that dealers had been slapping $20k+ adm's on and selling them before they got off the truck. Now some online brokers have them with 8% off msrp. The market has completely changed and will continue trending down. Will this have any affect on Z06 market, highly doubt it. Z06 production is so constrained and the car has massive hype(for a reason). Will the Z06 have an adm towards the end of its lifecycle, don't think so...but who knows.

Time will tell. A couple things even on the porsche you’d be amazed how many drop off “the list” when it’s their turn. I expect the z06 will experience that.

To your point production is constrained so it will take time. Like you I was more thinking towards end of lifecycle. And Specifically my argument is those who paid the big adm will be hurting if they try in sell in 3-4 years. Will it still be close to MSRP relevant for a car that old? Sure but I expect it to go below MSRP.

Ultimately this all depends on economy. It’s looking like the fed might go big on next rate increase and back to 100 basis points (not the 75 basis points people are expecting). That’s going to stir up a lot of things again.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by TR930

How many people on that waiting list originally planned to use a HELOC to buy their Zo6?

lol

I used a HELOC to buy my FF, 1.99% for 12 months was such a gift.
Now it's like 6%, party was fun while it lasted. Paid $180/month in interest and made $40k on the car after driving it for a year. The good old days of 2021...

[Mike00]

Obviously the Z06 won’t feel this…. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...efaults-rising

[BGM-M3COMP]

Size comparison between the z06 and the stingray. Can't believe how "big" the stingray is already lol

Lucky dude to have gotten a limited edition 1st MY z06 lol. Yeah these cars will be expensive for a while.