BMW plans significant announcement on March 28

[NYCX3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If I remember my BMW history correctly (I do, I just checked wiki) Spartanburg was opened in 1994 and first produced the E36 for 1994 - 1996 then started producing the Z3. So the plant has been in existence for 20 years, which is not so "recent". And BTW the economy of the 1970's was worse than Obama's economy of today. And a little known fact - the Hover Dam was built during the depression in the 1930's, a far worse economy than today. Yeah, but we Americans suck.

But data on X3's being built in US is recent. I can be mistaken with my reasoning, and it could be that the quality of BMW's in general is just falling due to bad management... but it's definitely falling.

[NYCX3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If I remember my BMW history correctly (I do, I just checked wiki) Spartanburg was opened in 1994 and first produced the E36 for 1994 - 1996 then started producing the Z3. So the plant has been in existence for 20 years, which is not so "recent". And BTW the economy of the 1970's was worse than Obama's economy of today. And a little known fact - the Hover Dam was built during the depression in the 1930's, a far worse economy than today. Yeah, but we Americans suck.

But data on X3's being built in US is recent. I can be mistaken with my reasoning, and it could be that the quality of BMW's in general is just falling due to bad management... but it's definitely falling.

Hoover dam could have been built during depression, and that is normal... for in tough times, many overcome and prevail, ingenuity and innovation sprout out of hardships often. However, during the great depression, there was also many companies shut down, and many people lost everything... so you can point to a positive occurrence, but I cannot do this with BMW.

If hoover dam was built in the great depression, BMW is being destroyed in it.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by NYCX3

Not true... they are designed based on various studies and surveys of the different populations in specific markets... do you believe all the safety laws are the same in all countries? Of course not, BMW must adjust many things in their vehicles depending on the markets they are selling in.

The argument isn't that their are or are not differences between markets. It's the false implication that the factories just do whatever they want regardless of how the engineers designed it.

It's been said that US market cars sometimes have softer suspension due to US roads and driving preference. It's BMW designing a car that's softer for this market, not factory workers just making it softer.

The ultimate argument was lack of "quality" in the new US-made X3. The cars come out of the factory with the exact levels of quality that the guys in Munich meant for it to have. No more, no less.

[NYCX3]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

The argument isn't that their are or are not differences between markets. It's the false implication that the factories just do whatever they want regardless of how the engineers designed it.

It's been said that US market cars sometimes have softer suspension due to US roads and driving preference. It's BMW designing a car that's softer for this market, not factory workers just making it softer.

The ultimate argument was lack of "quality" in the new US-made X3. The cars come out of the factory with the exact levels of quality that the guys in Munich meant for it to have. No more, no less.

If they came out with the exact quality the guys in Munich meant, there would be no defects, recalls or service bulletins. People only produce what the wisdom of their mind allows, and lately, there's been a lack of real quality. So the argument of differences in the markets ties into the argument that US market quality is lower than others, your own point proves it... US Roads are so bad, that the cars need to be adjusted to deal with the roads... and the legalities and disclosures BMW has to deal with in US is insane... the car is a nanny... double pull of handle for opening a door? Can't drive with door open? Can't close windows with remote, but can open them? Runflats standard? What the heck happened to real cars? When did these driving machines turn into babysitters and pacifiers?

Anyway, we both have our points of view... I own a BMW, and cannot wait to get rid of it just for the same reasons I speak of... and I used to have a 2006 X3 MSport which I would take anyday in a blink over the 2013 X3 Msport.

I can take care of myself... don't need car to park for me, warn me there's another car in the other lane, keep my tires from deflating or making a soft joyful ride, all this dumbs the senses down and makes one a worse and more dependent driver. no thanks. I like to be the driver, not the car.

Aston Martin is looking better every day.

[Quasimodem]

BMW is now accepting bitcoins?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NYCX3

But data on X3's being built in US is recent. I can be mistaken with my reasoning, and it could be that the quality of BMW's in general is just falling due to bad management... but it's definitely falling.

Hoover dam could have been built during depression, and that is normal... for in tough times, many overcome and prevail, ingenuity and innovation sprout out of hardships often. However, during the great depression, there was also many companies shut down, and many people lost everything... so you can point to a positive occurrence, but I cannot do this with BMW.

If hoover dam was built in the great depression, BMW is being destroyed in it.

I've been around BMWs a long time. I'd never classify BMW as having and above average level of build quality (I'd say below). The American-built cars I've had were of just as good or better build quality as BMW regardless of country of assembly.

The problem for BMW now a days is most manufacturers have caught up to them in what BMW used to have a unique corner on in the marketplace, driving dynamics. And the competition offers better build quality at a lower price than BMW does. But for guys like me BMW has moved on to a different customer, which is okay, nothing ever stays the same or lasts forever - that's life.

My Sister has a 1st gen X3 and the build quality in not very good in her perspective related to the amount of money she paid for it. She loves the way it drives, but hates the repair bills, and this from a woman whose last two cars were a Chevrolet Blazer and a Ford Mustang. The heater core needed replacement (expensive) and the oil separator system wore out, and the left-side hood latch broke (left hood latch... that's shitty quality in my view).

[bmwx3805]

Originally Posted by NYCX3

lol, wishful thinking. Have you driven a german made BMW vs. American?

I have, and it's quite a contrast in road feel and vehicle quality, attention to detail, intuitively placed controls. US Made BMWs just feel dumbed down.

actually i have. when i did pcd with my x1 i got to drive the 3 series and the x5 35d. they where both amazing. especially the 35d. you may notice a difference and that's fine but i don't. to me it doesn't matter either way. i certainly do love my German made x1 but i certainly hope its built in my palmetto state one day. again every one has the right to there own opinion and i respect that.

[bmwx3805]

Originally Posted by NYCX3

If they came out with the exact quality the guys in Munich meant, there would be no defects, recalls or service bulletins. People only produce what the wisdom of their mind allows, and lately, there's been a lack of real quality. So the argument of differences in the markets ties into the argument that US market quality is lower than others, your own point proves it... US Roads are so bad, that the cars need to be adjusted to deal with the roads... and the legalities and disclosures BMW has to deal with in US is insane... the car is a nanny... double pull of handle for opening a door? Can't drive with door open? Can't close windows with remote, but can open them? Runflats standard? What the heck happened to real cars? When did these driving machines turn into babysitters and pacifiers?

Anyway, we both have our points of view... I own a BMW, and cannot wait to get rid of it just for the same reasons I speak of... and I used to have a 2006 X3 MSport which I would take anyday in a blink over the 2013 X3 Msport.

I can take care of myself... don't need car to park for me, warn me there's another car in the other lane, keep my tires from deflating or making a soft joyful ride, all this dumbs the senses down and makes one a worse and more dependent driver. no thanks. I like to be the driver, not the car.

Aston Martin is looking better every day.

but i will agree with you that roads are bad especially in ny. im from li ad ill tell ya i certainly dont miss those roads or the belt park way.

[SCOTT26]

Welcome the new BMW X7.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...rg-report-says

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Welcome the new BMW X7.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...rg-report-says

What will the X7 exactly be? Will it be a Lexus LX and Mercedes GL competitor, or more of a SUV 7 Series? Because the former, Lexus and Benz don't have the level of exclusivity/prestige/luxury of cars as S Class, Bentley or Rolls Royce.

The GL is not really a luxury SUV, it is just a bigger ML, something the X7 better not be, i.e. a bigger X5.

It should really be top level luxury like the up-coming 7 Series. X7 Security is also in plan? It better be. Looks like the market of traditional sedans is splitting into more practical and off-road "capable" SUVs and sportier 4 door "coupes".

[NYCX3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've been around BMWs a long time. I'd never classify BMW as having and above average level of build quality (I'd say below). The American-built cars I've had were of just as good or better build quality as BMW regardless of country of assembly.

The problem for BMW now a days is most manufacturers have caught up to them in what BMW used to have a unique corner on in the marketplace, driving dynamics. And the competition offers better build quality at a lower price than BMW does. But for guys like me BMW has moved on to a different customer, which is okay, nothing ever stays the same or lasts forever - that's life.

My Sister has a 1st gen X3 and the build quality in not very good in her perspective related to the amount of money she paid for it. She loves the way it drives, but hates the repair bills, and this from a woman whose last two cars were a Chevrolet Blazer and a Ford Mustang. The heater core needed replacement (expensive) and the oil separator system wore out, and the left-side hood latch broke (left hood latch... that's shitty quality in my view).

Now imagine the quality of the 2013 X3's... it's several times worse, I've had the 1st Gen X3, and that one is a gem compared to the new ones.

Which American cars you think are better built and have better driving dynamics?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NYCX3

Now imagine the quality of the 2013 X3's... it's several times worse, I've had the 1st Gen X3, and that one is a gem compared to the new ones.

Which American cars you think are better built and have better driving dynamics?

Cadillac ATS and CTS. Corvette C7. Off the top of my head. Probably a Buick or two, but I'm too lazy to research to remember which ones.

[NYCX3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Cadillac ATS and CTS. Corvette C7. Off the top of my head. Probably a Buick or two, but I'm too lazy to research to remember which ones.

Thanks for sharing... will look into them.